MundaPakistani Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani so if great great grandfather was sikh' date=' how did u end up bein muslim?[/quote'] because he later converted to Islam, i don't know exactly how or when. MP , Do you still have relatives in India . Also, have you ever visited India ? If so , how was your experience. No and no. Never had a chance but would love to visit one day, that would also allow me to meet one of my really close friends who has now moved back to India.
CC1981 Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani he has this impresison of me being muslim and is so chummy with me .. I never bothered to correct him If you've known him for a while, then here is an easy way to tell (if they are muslim)the person thought/thinks you are a muslim (assuming he/she doesnt know your religious tilt oficially) : they ask you to pray together for the friday prayer at the same mosque. Particularly true if they are older than the gen-X ( ie, mid 20s or younger people ). I've had this asked to me a few times by muslim folks i'd newly met and i'd not stated my religion to them. So, if he's known you for a while and hasn't asked you - you can be pretty sure he doesnt think you are a muslim.
MundaPakistani Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani he has this impresison of me being muslim and is so chummy with me .. I never bothered to correct him If you've known him for a while, then here is an easy way to tell (if they are muslim)the person thought/thinks you are a muslim (assuming he/she doesnt know your religious tilt oficially) : they ask you to pray together for the friday prayer at the same mosque. Particularly true if they are older than the gen-X ( ie, mid 20s or younger people ). I've had this asked to me a few times by muslim folks i'd newly met and i'd not stated my religion to them. So, if he's known you for a while and hasn't asked you - you can be pretty sure he doesnt think you are a muslim. From what i can interpret is that Dada has some serious issues with Muslims and Pakistanis, he simply can't accept the fact that Muslims are similar to people following other faiths, it almost seems as if he has something engraved in his brain which tells him that Muslims are born to bully the non muslins through violence and doesn?t accept any positives about the religion. I think it's a real shame because he seems to be a very well educated man yet his opinions are completely anti-peace and tranquility.
CC1981 Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani it almost seems as if he has something engraved in his brain which tells him that Muslims are born to bully the non muslins through violence and doesn?t accept any positives about the religion. Yeah- its just that he cannot see that most middle class muslims ( middle class is afterall the standard benchmark for humanity- we do crazy things when we have too much power or don't have enough to feed family) are no different than any other. Just that the muslim community has more nutters than the rest who are willing to go the violent way and he finds it easy to encapsulate all muslims in that group. But to be honest, DR is not that nutty. More like politically incorrect to the extreme than anything else. Just beware of some of the ones who like to go under pandava psuedonyms. yet his opinions are completely anti-peace and tranquility In terms of results, yup.
Gaurav Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani Bla bla. Poverty alone does not make you a terrorist! MP you really need to take a cold hard neutral look at MO's life and you will see that he was nothing but scum! No one said that muslims are not human or cannot be good people BUT Islam and MO's teachings are SICK! Anyone who says otherwise needs their head checked. Making excuses does not change reality.
CC1981 Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani Poverty alone does not make you a terrorist! Never said it does. But it sure plays a part. Stop trying to find 'what alone causes this problem' because something 'alone' is rarely, if ever, a problem. Problems in this complex world arises due to complex reasons. No one said that muslims are not human or cannot be good people BUT Islam and MO's teachings are SICK! not ALL of Mohammed's teachings are sick. There are sick bits that many Muslims ignore but tbh, there are sick bits in many religions that its followers ignore. Islam has a problem with the rest on a theocratic level but so does every Abrahamic faith. I agree that Islam has been more violent than the rest but at the end of the day, Mohammed was not such a bad dude for his time and day.
Gaurav Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani Poverty alone does not make you a terrorist! Not ALL of Mohammed's teachings are sick. Not all views of Hitler were sick. Not all acts of mass murderers are sick...WTF is your point? There are sick bits that many Muslims ignore but tbh, there are sick bits in many religions that its followers ignore. Islam has a problem with the rest on a theocratic level but so does every Abrahamic faith. Are you not doing the "same old Kashmir thing" by deflecting the issue and bringing other religions into it? So you saying that some muslims are ignoring bits of a PERFECT religion ???? Not that PERFECT then is it? Goes to show that it was never PERFECT and like all religions is nothing but ramblings of a lunatic. I agree that Islam has been more violent than the rest but at the end of the day, Mohammed was not such a bad dude for his time and day. Bollocks! Even for his time he was nasty. Plus isn't he supposed to be the perfect human being and a messenger of god? What has time got to do with "perfect, timeless, universal message" from god? Even if I buy what you are saying then aren't his teachings valid only for that medieval period? If you change those teachings to adapt to modern times then who is going to adapt the teachings? How will you know if they were adapted correctly for modern times? Don't you think MO needs to come down and give us an updated version? You are clutching at straws mate. Admit it! Never said it does. But it sure plays a part. Stop trying to find 'what alone causes this problem' because something 'alone' is rarely, if ever, a problem. Problems in this complex world arises due to complex reasons. So how come there are no KP terrorists? Smell the coffee and call a spade a spade! The bottom line is that MO's teachings are very handy if you want to encourage a poor OR non-poor muslim to wage jihad on Kaffirs! Stop making excuses!
CC1981 Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani Not all views of Hitler were sick. Not all acts of mass murderers are sick...WTF is your point? lol. I should've expected that. Okay, what i meant is, the Koran is largely a book about rules and worshippin Allah rather than butcherin people, which is a fringe aspect. It doesn't make the book acceptable but it sure explains why most middle class muslims are as decent folks as anybody else. Anyway you have a PERFECT religion but then you are ignoring bits??? I never said it is a perfect religion. If it were, i'd be a muslim. Goes to show that it was never PERFECT like all religions and is nothing but ramblings of a lunatic. Mohammed was many things. A lunatic, he wasn't. If you want to find a lunatic prophet and pick on him, i give you Ezekiel. Bollocks! Even for his time he was nasty Not really. The world in general was a brutally cruel place 1500 years ago. Especially from the cultural sphere he came from ( west of India = radically more brutal history than india and east of India). Plus isn't he supposed to be the perfect human being and a messenger of god? Err no. Muslims don't consider Mohammed to be a perfect human being- in muslim ideology, only one living thing can be perfect and that is God. So, nobody, not even Mohammed is/was perfect in Islamic tradition. If you change those teachings to adapt to modern times then who is going to adapt the teachings? Its all down to interpretations and determining a pacifistic surah to be more applicable at a given scenario than a violent one. Don't you think MO needs to come down and give us an updated version? What i think is theological change won't come through persecution/hostility from the non-believers in any religion. It will be counterproductive and only push the religion into a more hardline form than before. If you want peace, you have to approach things in the proper fashion and in step by step format. Be assured that Islam will one day die too- all compound things are impermanent. However, it is much better in the long run for Islam to die an ideological death due to internal flaws being debated upon by the followers than crushed out of existance by others. Muslims are here to stay for now - Islam won't die in our lifetime or in many lifetimes. So for now, irradication of Islam is a self-defeating purpose if you are looking to avoid carnage and bloodbaths. Encouraging the pacifistic elements in Islam is what we should be doing. Not trying to dismantle Islam. Try to dismantle it AFTER its been pacified a bit because Islam, as the Cordoban emirate proved, has the potential for peaceful coexistance with the rest. So, imo, you are going about it in the wrong way. Someone, some day, will destroy the veneer of unshakable faith and absolutism from Islam - but that person would have to be Islam's version of Martin Luther, not an outsider. So if you think by attacking Islam and trying to expose its flaws will help in drawing people away from it or curb terrorism, it will not. Because you are attacking Islam at a wrong time. Encouraging the pacifistic and multicultural elements in Islam TODAY will result in eventual open-mindedness inside Islam and lead to the eventual downfall of Islam in THE FUTURE. Timeframe is important here. Thats all i gotto say on this topic.
Gaurav Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani Err no. Muslims don't consider Mohammed to be a perfect human being- in muslim ideology, only one living thing can be perfect and that is God. So, nobody, not even Mohammed is/was perfect in Islamic tradition. Abhee "Err" wallee :hic: I mean that muslims consider MO to be the ideal role model for a perfect (close to perfect if you wanna play semantics) human being. Even if I take your explanation then "Perfect GOD" gave an imperfect teaching to MO? CC you making god look bad now :lmao: Man I can't be banging my head against you all the time. I need to sleep :lmao: What you basically saying is that KAFFIRS should take a softly softly approach towards thugs. Correct me if I remember wrong...are you not the same person who said that if Islam causes shit in India then Hindus should just move out? Or was that one of your online friends? :lmao: Ever heard of how muslims were driven out of Spain? That is what will greet them if they continue walking down this path. Most things in out history get settled by violence and not the way you are suggesting. Very bad times ahead for everyone :shrug: I am out!
CC1981 Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani Even if I take your explanation then "Perfect GOD" gave an imperfect teaching to MO? Obviously ! CC you making god look bad now Not really- if you are God and only God can be perfect, then everything else, including your messenger, is imperfect. What you basically saying is that KAFFIRS should take a softly softly approach towards thugs No what i am saying is think with your head instead of your balls and take an approach that makes sense/is going to do something positive compared to whats been our attitude/accomplishments so far. .are you not the same person who said that if Islam causes **** in India then Hindus should just move out? No, i said *I* would move out of an area if its unstable. That is what will greet them if they continue walking down this path. I hope not. I hope Hindus don't finally enter their name into the list of religions that kills and genocide in its name. But i guess it will happen eventually if hindus were to become genociders like Spaniards. And yes, it is what will happen unless we begin to encourage the peaceful elements in Islam. Most things in out history get settled by violence and not the way you are suggesting. Agree, unfortunately. Very bad times ahead for everyone Agree again.
Anakin Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani lol. I should've expected that. Okay, what i meant is, the Koran is largely a book about rules and worshippin Allah rather than butcherin people, which is a fringe aspect. It doesn't make the book acceptable but it sure explains why most middle class muslims are as decent folks as anybody else. I never said it is a perfect religion. If it were, i'd be a muslim. Mohammed was many things. A lunatic, he wasn't. If you want to find a lunatic prophet and pick on him, i give you Ezekiel. Not really. The world in general was a brutally cruel place 1500 years ago. Especially from the cultural sphere he came from ( west of India = radically more brutal history than india and east of India). Err no. Muslims don't consider Mohammed to be a perfect human being- in muslim ideology, only one living thing can be perfect and that is God. So, nobody, not even Mohammed is/was perfect in Islamic tradition. Its all down to interpretations and determining a pacifistic surah to be more applicable at a given scenario than a violent one. Dude your knowledge of islam is quite poor, sorry to say. It's rubbish when you say middle class muslims are just as everybody else. Might be true for many, even majority %, but there are too many terrorist mentality people even among them. What you think matters to zilch in islam, it has been proclaimed as the perfect religion and 99% muslims believe that. Md had a bout of insanity And YES, muslims do consider Md as the perfect human being. It's time for you to "wake up", at least know about something before achieving nirvana or giving lectures. Md himself said he's the perfect man ever, his clan was the perfect clan ever, his race was the perfect race ever.
CC1981 Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani Dude your knowledge of islam is quite poor, sorry to say. Doesnt matter to me if you think so. Might be true for many, even majority %, but there are too many terrorist mentality people even among them. So ? There are too many terrorist mentality people in the world today in general. Do you really not see how some stuff people say here in their hotheaded rage is distinctly terroristic as well ? As i said, middle class to middle class, there is very little difference. That is not a defence of Islam- just a commentary on the values and type of people Muslims are. What you think matters to zilch in islam, it has been proclaimed as the perfect religion and 99% muslims believe that. Dude- i am conveying to you the muslim viewpoint that Mohammed was not perfect coz there is only one thing perfect in the muslim viewpoint - allah. Md himself said he's the perfect man ever, his clan was the perfect clan ever, his race was the perfect race ever Err no. He claimed direct descendancy from Abraham. Thats about it really. Mohd. doesnt claim to be a perfect man- it is often repeated in the Koran that only God is perfect and while the Koran has many flaws in it in my opinion, one thing the Koran is very very good at (unlike the bible) is not contradicting itself. Koran's flaws are to do with a logical/conceptual error rather than saying 'CC was Anakin's father' at one point and ' Anakin was CC's cousin' at another. The solution is not a perfect one- its merely the best one of the possible solutions. Thats all. Actively influence Islam to promote its seldom seen benevolent aspect. Not actively challenge Islam in the way people can debate the very credibility of Islam/Hinduism etc. without getting shot at. That is counterproductive. You first need a tolerant society before openminded change and critical analysis happens. In my opinion, the approach some folks here take would work a lot better 200 years from now after following my approach for the 200 years. In other words, i think you are putting the cart before the horse.
Anakin Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani As I said you'll probably find the least difference middle class to middle class, but there are still significant differences in # of people with terrorist mentality, and remember that's the best situation. Islam is the perfect religion, just ask your muslim friends whether they believe it or not and you should find the answer. Let me know who can reverse the perfect allah's decision to send someone to heaven or hell on the judgment day and you should know who is more powerful and perfect. I forgot one of your gems before. Yes Md was brutal even by the standard of that time. Don't think you'll find many generals intentionally cutting off limbs of enemy soldiers and civilians and leaving them to die from bleeding, and ever fewer who even said how to distribute enemy wealth and females.
CC1981 Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani Don't think you'll find many generals intentionally cutting off limbs of enemy soldiers and civilians and leaving them to die from bleeding, and ever fewer who even said how to distribute enemy wealth and females. ???? Well, i can only- oh i dunno- find you several dozen Roman Generals, Assyrian generals, Babylonian Generals, Turkish generals, mongol generals, hunnic generals- fack-as i said- outside of India/east asia- who did far far worse. Yes, people back then living in those areas were THAT violent and the world was just THAT sadistic. Entire European/near eastern history has been shockingly brutal in general till recently. Let me know who can reverse the perfect allah's decision to send someone to heaven or hell on the judgment day and you should know who is more powerful and perfect. ?????? I didnt comment on that did I ? I corrected someone who was misinformed and Islam says mohd. is perfect.
CC1981 Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani Only problem is none of them proclaimed themselves to be Gods messengers ... ????? So ?? :huh: My initial point was Mohd. was not a bad bloke for his day and age plus culture sphere. I am sure,since you are so knowledgable about mohd, you are aware of the good reforms he instituted in his society.
CC1981 Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani Logic 101 Gods messenger Cannot be 1. Pedophile 2. Cruel 3. Warmongerer etc etc etc Please dont ask why Reality 101: Gods messengers often are : 1. Paedophile 2. Cruel 3. Warmongerer etc etc etc. Please don't ask why. Thats just the way it is. I don't want to patronize you but you have no idea just how many religions have been created over the times by mankind and how many of its creators/major advocates were pretty messed up people. Again, don't twist my words. I never said or lent any credibility towards Mohammed being a God's messenger. I said and i repeat, Mohammed was not a bad guy for his time/culture.
CC1981 Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani And that allows Mo to be also one exactly how ... isnt he supposed to be the best ?????? None of the religions that you claim to be founded by people with those disorders have followers as of today with those disorders So ????? Is the idea of logical analysis limited only to instantaneous/current status ?? What has this gotto do with anything except for being precisely as meaningless as instantaneous velocity is to the overall motion without a reference point ?!? Anyways, this is way too much OT.
MundaPakistani Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani Unsurprisingly this thread has turned in to just like all those other threads with people trying their best to find loopholes in Islam.
King Tendulkar Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani Unsurprisingly this thread has turned in to just like all those other threads with people trying their best to find loopholes in Islam. Loopholes? I thought muslims believe islam is perfect? Do you believe islam is perfect MP? or are you going to avoid the question?
MundaPakistani Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Re: MundaPakistani Unsurprisingly this thread has turned in to just like all those other threads with people trying their best to find loopholes in Islam. Loopholes? I thought muslims believe islam is perfect? Do you believe islam is perfect MP? or are you going to avoid the question? it depends on your interpretation(as is the same in all other religions), the same Quran can be used to bring the message of peace and the same Quran can be used to bring violence to the land, the same Bible can be used to bring peace and tranquility yet it can also be used the way it was by the Christian crusaders.
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