Muslims no longer a minority in Uttar Pradesh:HC

[Lurker]

Re: Muslims no longer a minority in Uttar Pradesh:HC

Lurker, If anything there is a fallacy in your theory ... primarily because the 2 religions in question (Hinduism,Buddhism) have very rarely resorted to use of force to spread ..... which is what Ummah does .... and hence the answer to your 1% thingy. This was what yoda meant.

Ummm okay. So now help me understand why Parsi population has fallen in India? There is no Ummah factor here. Look the point is this. You can NOT take a sample population and use that to show how many followers of a religion used to be some 2000 years back. You can not. xxxx

[Lurker]

Re: Muslims no longer a minority in Uttar Pradesh:HC

There is no fallacy. Those situations can be easily explained by strong evidence like the Partition, etc.

I am telling you post-partition. After partition Pakistan and BD had atleast 10-20% of their population as Hindu. Today they are both marginal, more so in Pakistan. Using your logic of taking today's sample and then backtracing it, how are you ever gonna show that once Pakistan had a large Hindu population?

All I am asking show me the evidence as to why such a "predominant religion" became 1% of the population in India and how Hinduism suddenly rose from being a "minority" or "whatever status it had" to 80% of the country when it is well know that we don't go about converting people.

You have been give evidence but you choose not to see it. You have been provided by witten accounts of foreign travellers to India. You have dismissed them. But what have you provided? Well nothing. See here is the thing, and I have repeated this before, Indian history has NOT been written down by Indians. So if you have to know about India a large part of that knowledge comes from accounts written about India by foreigners. Now it is one thing to take them with a pinch of salt and completely other to be dismissive about it. As I have written before, it would be hard to put numbers here. It doesnt matter if one beleives India had 80% population of Buddhist..or 30%. It doesnt. I mean can you seriously try to explain how 30% of the population dwindled down to 1%? Let alone trying to make an effort to show 80% to 1%. xxx

[The Outsider]

Re: Muslims no longer a minority in Uttar Pradesh:HC

All I am asking show me the evidence as to why such a "predominant religion" became 1% of the population in India and how Hinduism suddenly rose from being a "minority" or "whatever status it had" to 80% of the country when it is well know that we don't go about converting people.

Many references have been pointed out which detail this change in the demography of India during those times. There are many more available in any library. But you'll have to do the hard yards and read them.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Muslims no longer a minority in Uttar Pradesh:HC Good news: why BJP wud be happy? well is nto it obvious the secular parties will have less opprtunity to indulge in communalism now in form of non-existant minority appeasement at least in UP. Sounds ironical but or secular parties whole politics revolves around minority appeasement.....Political class is intellectually bankrupt in general, they seldom think beyond quota rservation, but when u can call urself seular in that case u can not only be intellectually bankrupt but also flaunt it with aplomb. Recently tin Bihar sachar comitte had some talk assessing minority's socio-economic index well as is the wont communist bastions were at the lowest ladder and gujarat was at the highest. one of the participant pointed this out and pat came comunazi participant's response we at least didn;t let post-godhara happen ( well this wud have made sense had godhara happened in their den but anyway that's altogether different matter). Next speaker I forgot that muslim genlleman's name chastised communazis badly saying so just because u didn;t et riots happen u can keep us like paupers.... Talking of minority: In bihar there is very dominant caste called bhumihaar their percenttage hovers around 7%. First Cm of Bihar Dr. Shri Krishan Singh came up with a legislation whereby bhumihaars were to be put in minorities and thereby be the recipeient of all the future doles which with minority tag. but bhumihaars being upwardly mobile took it some kind of affront and refused it. Imagine had they accepted that tag today they wud have been receieving doles despite being the one of the most dominant caste socially economicalaly politically . Point being made is that minority tag is all about politics. Hats off to the court for abolishing it somewhere for some people Fact is there is no majority in india it's land of minorities so let us remove this stupid word from constitutional lexicon.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Muslims no longer a minority in Uttar Pradesh:HC A minor point of detail By kanchan Gupta In his scintillating essay The Continent of Circe, Nirad C Chaudhuri has described India's Muslims as "the least of the minorities". Before Teesta Setalvad and the sabrangis take offence to this description, one must hasten to add that Niradbabu was not necessarily being either facetious or disparaging. He was merely elaborating on the fact that "in terms of absolute numbers the Muslims are not a small minority", but "their numerical strength" is not reflected in "the position they hold". Justice SN Srivastava of Allahabad High Court obviously disagrees with Niradbabu's wry commiseration with "the sad fate of the Muslims of India, both in the Hindu and the Muslim state". Of course, in the 41 years that separate the publication of The Continent of Circe and last Thursday's judgement, the numerical strength of Muslims in India has jumped from "just under 47 million in a population of 439 million" to 138 million in a population of 1.2 billion. Hence, the judge decided to strip Muslims of their minority status in Uttar Pradesh, where they constitute 18.5 per cent of the population. He applied what he called "the twin criteria of population and strength of a religious community as laid down by the founding fathers of the Constitution of India as is clear from proceedings of the Constituent Assembly" while coming to his conclusion. There is, however, a problem with the judgement, which has been stayed by a division bench on Friday. Neither the Constituent Assembly debates nor the Constitution of India deal with the contentious issue of defining a minority in specific, inflexible terms. The Constituent Assembly did dwell at great length on the issue of minority rights; the Constitution enshrines those rights, especially through Articles 25 to 30. It was assumed by the Constituent Assembly, as Niradbabu has eloquently put it, that "in today's India all non-Hindus are minorities". Judgements of the Supreme Court, somewhat absurdly, make out that any linguistic or religious community that is less than 50 per cent of a State's population is a minority. So, if some day in the near future if there are sufficient Bangladeshis in Assam to push up that State's Muslim population from 30.9 per cent to 49.9 per cent, it would still continue to be designated a minority community. Is the criterion of population the best to define the minority status of a community? Or should it be a community's strength in terms of economic status, political empowerment and social development? In India, can we divorce the definition of a minority community from communal perceptions? Niradbabu recalls that it was "a Bengali-Brahmin-Hindu professor of history and political science who first put forward the suggestion that the Hindu-Muslim differences in India should be settled on the lines of the recommendations for the protection of minorities put forward by the League of Nations". Alas, the League of Nations is long departed. And the UN, well into middle age, is still grappling with the problem of defining the term 'minority'. Even as you read this, a working group of a sub-committee of an empowered group of a committee is toiling somewhere in the UN on the finer nuances of what is now accepted as the "working definition" of minority. According to the UN's working definition, a minority is a "group numerically inferior to the rest of the population of the state, in a non-dominant position, whose members - being nationals of the state - possess ethnic, religious or linguistic characteristics differing from those of the rest of the population and show, if only implicitly, a sense of solidarity, directed towards preserving their culture, traditions, religion or language". Let's see a judge try and beat that. On a lighter note, here's an e-mail received from a friend who revels in being outrageously politically incorrect. It has been edited to foreclose the option of being dragged to court. Just in case anybody is tempted to do precisely that, let me disown all rights to which authors usually stake their claim. ON THE MONEY ANALOGY Old version: The ant works hard in the heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for winter. The grasshopper thinks the ant's a fool and dances the summer away. Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed. The grasshopper has neither shelter nor food, so he dies out in the cold. New version: The ant works hard in the heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks the ant's a fool and dances the summer away. Come winter, the shivering and hungry grasshopper calls a Press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving. In their prime time bulletins, 24x7 news channels show footage of the shivering grasshopper followed by that of the ant in his comfortable home with a table loaded with food. Jholawallahs sputter in rage: How can the poor grasshopper be allowed to suffer so? Arundhati Roy stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house. Medha Patkar goes on a fast along with other grasshoppers, demanding that grasshoppers be relocated to warmer climates during winter. The National Human Rights Commission, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch criticise the Government of India for not upholding the fundamental rights of grasshoppers. The Internet is flooded with online petitions (many promising heaven and everlasting peace for prompt support as against the wrath of god for non-compliance). Left MPs stage a walkout and the Marxists call a 'Bharat Bandh' in West Bengal, Kerala and Tripura. In these States the CPI(M)-led Governments pass a law preventing ants from working hard so as to bring about equality of poverty among ants and grasshoppers. Home Minister Shivraj Patil introduces the Prevention of Terrorism Against Grasshoppers Bill, which is rushed through Parliament. All ants are jailed and fined for failing to comply with POTAGA. The Centre announces a special compensation package for grasshoppers. Arundhati Roy calls it "a triumph of justice". VP Singh calls it "social justice". The CPI(M) calls it the "revolutionary resurgence of the downtrodden". Arjun Singh declares a quota for grasshoppers. Ban Ki-Moon invites the grasshopper who started it all to address the UN General Assembly.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Muslims no longer a minority in Uttar Pradesh:HC The word 'Hindu' has its origin in Sanskrit literature. In the Rig Veda, India was referred to as the country of'Sapta Sindhu', i.e. the country of seven great rivers. The word 'Sindhu' refers to rivers and sea and not merely to the specific river called the Sindhu (Indus), now in Pakistan. In Vedic Sanskrit, according to ancient dictionaries, 'sa' was pronounced as 'ha'. Thus 'Sapta Sindhu' was pronounced as 'Hapta Hindu'; similarly 'Saraswati' was pronounced as 'Haravyati' or 'Harahwati'. This is how the word 'Hindu' came into being. The ancient Persians also referred to India as 'Hapta Hind', as recorded in their ancient classic 'Bern Riyadh'. That is why some scholars came to believe that the word 'Hindu' had its origin in Persia. The Greeks who invaded India under Alexander the Great, dropped the 'H' completely and used the name Indoos or Indus which later led to the formation of the word 'India'.