Mark Richardson not happy with IPL pinching players

[Don Sharma]

sorry to digress..but Don ..really:P

Ha ha. But you can still find players like Giggsy, Pirlo, Gerrard et like.:--D

[achilles]

What is misleading ? Ross Taylor is paid by Bangalore Royal Challengers to play for them. He is a Royal Challenger the moment he signed with them. If you are an IPL player' date=' at some point you have to expect play in the CL. [b']How is "I'll play for IPL when it suits me and my home teams at other times", good for the IPL entrepreneurs. After all, a big part of the IPL team brand and potential to win depends on its foreign players. I think this is all too overblown TBH. If players care so much about loyalty for their home teams, why play for IPL teams ? If they want the money they need to represent their IPL team regardless. In the corporate world, if you are paid by an employer you and your work represent the employer. You cannot affliate yourself with the employer when you want to earn your pay cheque and then with some one else competing with your employer at other times. I dont know why people are up in arms when this common sense is extended to cricket. And as i said, had the choice been left to the individual players, they'd have picked the IPL team anyways and it would have been a lot more embarrassing for the home teams.

I think this is one of the best replies in this thread.

[youngindia]

The rich and the powerful always get special privileges. Thats how the world works. And this is the common sense that is missing in your post. .

a moron talkin about commonsense. :hysterical: I was talkin about fairness. not money or mercenaries ! you are justifying that the highest bidder what he wants by imposing his terms.the bidder is not even willing to have a contest. he just wants to have his way Getting special privileges is differernt from trampling your way to it! having money is different from acting fairly or morally.

Here you are mixing loyalty and money.

I am not mixing anything. I am just saying its professionally fair that the choice be left to players. let the player choose what motivates them. The contractual clause deprives players of this right.it *imposes* professional loyalty. The charge here is imposition of loyalty. You sre showing lack of basic commonsense here-" The only reason players might consider playing for other teams might be loyalty related to their origins." this is not a minor issue. its a pretty big reason. many players want to stay loyal to their native teams for emotional loyalty as well they made him what he is today. anyway, its best left to the players to decide where they stand. your logic about money trumping such loyalties is pathetic because you are justifying the highest bidder getting what he wants by FORCE. again the complaint here is the player is deprived of his choice. even a player selling himself to the highest bidder is on dubious moral grounds and even that does not happen here!

No one arm twisted CD to enter the Champions league in the first place.

but certainly they arm twisted to have a discriminatory clause. Its just not nice to use your might in such brazen ways.

1) IPL trumps other leagues in terms of contactual obligations

i was not talkin about violation of contractual obligations,bonehead.i am saying that clause is not fair. Ipl has the right to demand that the player fulfil contractual obligations related to IPL.no doubt but when it comes to a different tournament, it has imposed professional loyalty on the players with this unprofessional clause.

2) IPL trumps other leagues in terms of money

who are you to impose that onthe players? he is the one who decides what matters most to him. if you think you should sell yourself to the highest bidder, live your life by your rules. why bother about someone else does? or even worse impose it on them ?

CL is a business made out of sport. Its run by businessmen. Where is the question of fairness or unfairness ?

rubbish. you can be ethical or unethical, moral or immoral while conducting business. trying to impose professional loyalty is pretty dodgy.

I dont know what is fair about a player taking all the money from one team and playing for its competitor.

why are you repeating the same old crap? a player is paid on a pro rata basis for the matches he played in. if he is not playing in the cl, he is not paid. That's bloody fair.

[youngindia]

Do you really think that players are naive and that they didnt know about the first choice clause for CL when they signed it?

they are swallowing a bitter pill in a difficult situation(i.e if they want to play elsewhere) The CL clause was decided by the boards concerned.the rules are set by the big guys. Its unfair to blame foot soldiers when they have the rules set for them. i am just asking why make them swallow bitter pills by force?the big guys can set rules fairly. if there is to be a change in clause, its the boards who have to take the initiative.

The players knew it before they signed and so they had already chosen to play for their IPL teams.

for ipl. but that does not mean they should choose the IPL ahead of their home team in a different setting.

They have to available for just 50% of the games to get paid in full. So someone like Kallis has to be paid in full whether he plays for BRC in CL or not.

FOR ipl yes. but does this clause apply to the CL? i would like to see the clause.

From next year, the onus should be put entirely on the player.

That's precisely is professional. not imposing loyalties by setting terms.

[Bumper]

a moron talkin about commonsense. :hysterical: I was talkin about fairness. not money or mercenaries ! you are justifying that the highest bidder what he wants by imposing his terms.the bidder is not even willing to have a contest. he just wants to have his way Getting special privileges is differernt from trampling your way to it! having money is different from acting fairly or morally. I am not mixing anything. I am just saying its professionally fair that the choice be left to players. let the player choose what motivates them. The contractual clause deprives players of this right.it *imposes* professional loyalty. The charge here is imposition of loyalty. You sre showing lack of basic commonsense here-" The only reason players might consider playing for other teams might be loyalty related to their origins." this is not a minor issue. its a pretty big reason. many players want to stay loyal to their native teams for emotional loyalty as well they made him what he is today. anyway, its best left to the players to decide where they stand. your logic about money trumping such loyalties is pathetic because you are justifying the highest bidder getting what he wants by FORCE. again the complaint here is the player is deprived of his choice. even a player selling himself to the highest bidder is on dubious moral grounds and even that does not happen here! but certainly they arm twisted to have a discriminatory clause. Its just not nice to use your might in such brazen ways. i was not talkin about violation of contractual obligations,bonehead.i am saying that clause is not fair. Ipl has the right to demand that the player fulfil contractual obligations related to IPL.no doubt but when it comes to a different tournament, it has imposed professional loyalty on the players with this unprofessional clause. who are you to impose that onthe players? he is the one who decides what matters most to him. if you think you should sell yourself to the highest bidder, live your life by your rules. why bother about someone else does? or even worse impose it on them ? rubbish. you can be ethical or unethical, moral or immoral while conducting business. trying to impose professional loyalty is pretty dodgy. why are you repeating the same old crap? a player is paid on a pro rata basis for the matches he played in. if he is not playing in the cl, he is not paid. That's bloody fair.

Blah, Blah. You've repeated the same old cr@p 20 times. I wont bother responding each and every comment, as I've already done so. But i'll get to the major points in your rant. And Oh, as for who the moron is, I say look in the mirror. You'll find one starin you in the face :hysterical: 1) I can cite a dozen examples on how rich & the powerful get special considerations in day to day matters. But since your head is so far up your a.$.$, am not sure that is gonna help. Infact if you dont even understand this, am not sure you are even intellectually equipped to engage in this discussion. Be it domestic politics, military politics, international politics, corporate matters or even sports, this is quite simply how the world works. Routinely in the corporate world, business behemoths sign deals with small companies that are exclusive. Why dont you jump & up down condemning that ? Your argument about fairness is just bordering on the ridiculous. Arguing this way, why IPL, almost everything in life is unfair. Why should India listen to the US and stop nuclear proliferation ? Why should we pay social security for some one else ? Why do we be prevented by employers from working part time for their competitors ? Why should a H-1B/Green card processing employee be bonded to a single employer ? In each of these cases, you could argue endlessly on why the system is unfair and how the weak is bullied by the strong. And in each of these cases, there is some "imposition of loyalty". But the reality is that the victim chose to be in that situation and hence should just shut up and play along. For putting up, you get some benefits. Like all things in life, "You can't have the cake and eat it too!" 2) And finally, players playing and getting paid on a prorata basis, is a provision introduced to help them fill in their international duties. Arguing that this should be used to let the players play for direct competitors and that too in the same competition, is nonsensical -- though i wouldn't put it past you to not understand why it is ridiculous. You dont work for an employer and its competitor part time and get paid by both. No employer will sign up for this. Before you jump up & down ranting pointlessly, think about parallel situations in life. You will realize that this is not as unfair as you think it is. And for christs sake, keep perspective. This is a Champions League, not a world cup!

[youngindia]

And Oh, as for who the moron is, I say look in the mirror. You'll find one starin you in the face :hysterical:

i care two hoots for a worthless piece of garbage :hysterical: A bs guy whose mouth goes way beyond his intellect is a sort of guy i spit at. A gifted cretin who does not understand his knowledge and insight is limited and even worse he deludes himself he knows the truth. where do this gifted morons come from.

Be it domestic politics, military politics, international politics, corporate matters or even sports, this is quite simply how the world works.

what your thick skull does not get is your thinking is limited. is talkin about realpolitik a great achievement?i need to learn from this cretin that the world is not always fair, that the rich and powerful get away and all that stuff. as if this fool has discovered it when no one has! give this cretin a gold medal for outstanding stupidity and self delusion. Just because crimes happen and will happen in the real world , that does not mean people do not or should not raise a voice against it. people will have differing ethics ,values and ideology despite real politik and unfairness of the world and all that. you conform to your own ideology and worldview which is just one of many . A person coming from a opposite worldview may find your ways offensive and may attack you.That's life as well. A person with strong ethics may most likely find a person with less ethics offensive and vice versa. Neither real politik or unfairness of life is going to prevent these fights.neither will it prevent people from protesting against real or perceived injustices. The mistake you are making is you are not recognising enough that others may not have values or viewpoint similar to yours and you seem to have a ridiculous notion that life is unfair and that money can buy privileges, so people may as well keep quiet. There are people who are more ok with some dubious ways in name of real politik and there are people less ok with such practices. that's also the real world. It does not mean that they don't recognise the violations of the rich and powerful or that life is not always fair. they may not have the same attitude or ideology as you do! Anyway what you need to follow at the very minimum is this - keep your rules to yourself . It will prevent you from acting like the deluded fool as you have been in this thread.

Routinely in the corporate world, business behemoths sign deals with small companies that are exclusive. Why dont you jump & up down condemning that ?

i don't want to raise anything personal here(though morons like you push the limit).,don't talk to me about business .thats all i can say. in business, there are fair and unfair business practices.there are good and bad people. also people often degrade themselves with the kind of attitude you have(its the real world. money is kind. strong punishes the weak) and descend into poor morals and ethics that sets up their fall.anyway i don't care about you. your values are of no concern to me. Just because of the unfair practices and bad people , you think people shud shut up and play along, keep it to yourself man.others do not have to make YOUR choices for various reasons mentioned above.

[youngindia]

Why do we be prevented by employers from working part time for their competitors ?

idiot.

Why should a H-1B/Green card processing employee be bonded to a single employer ?

nowhere is "professional loyalty" imposed.you can choose the employer and choose to request green card processing. nothing is imposed here.

In each of these cases, you could argue endlessly on why the system is unfair and how the weak is bullied by the strong.

even if the system is unfair, people can choose to voice. as i already said, to each his own.

But the reality is that the victim chose to be in that situation and hence should just shut up and play along.

if you want to be a fool, you be a fool man. why drag others to drown with you :hysterical:

Arguing that this should be used to let the players play for direct competitors and that too in the same competition, is nonsensical

do you have clay in your thick skull? he is only contracted to play for ipl which has a CL relevant clause. for all your corporate blah blah, does n't a moron like you recognise a contract from a permanent employee? and can you stop this nonfactual nonsense about the player's employer being ipl? -only for a particular period covered by the contract . That's huge difference from being a permanent employee. and also a sporting career has some differences from a corporate career.though it is also professional, not all analogies work.they don't go to work daily throughout the year for one ! A player's primary employer is his cricket board.without them, no ipl or cl.

And for christs sake, keep perspective. This is a Champions League, not a world cup

you are just a online hack. the goal of the stakeholders is to sell the product . if the fans don't feel passionate about supporting the teams(can only happen over a period of time), this product will end sooner or later for lack of demand. if the bcci runs it the clownish way as it has run our cricket in cricketing and soem administrative aspects, then the product is going to be tarnished.

[Bumper]

^^^ Your post belongs to the same gutter you came from. The only thing you have managed to do here is to write half a.$.$.ed replies (which required you two posts instead of one:hysterical:) filled with random choice of different adjectives people have used to describe you in the past such as "idiot, cretin, fool" etc and in the process you have only made more noise than sense:hysterical:. Its a sign that anger has taken over any little sanity you had left and your only intent is to throw more insults and not advance any argument. I'll try one last time, before i give up.

where do this gifted morons come from.

Thats a question i should be asking you! Since the day I co-founded this board, I have been posting here. It is you, who emerged from a gutter yesterday. If you already understood how the world works, then why, chump, do you jump up and down making a hoopla about what is common place ? And stop giving me this BS about you are raising your voice. Go raise your voice against the European debt crisis or the global recession. The world is dying to hear from you :hysterical: And stop this holier than thou, "Dont talk to me about business...". You dont know anything about my credentials either.

in business, there are fair and unfair business practices.there are good and bad people. also people often degrade themselves with the kind of attitude you have(its the real world. money is kind. strong punishes the weak) and descend into poor morals and ethics that sets up their fall.anyway i don't care about you. your values are of no concern to me.

Thanks for the lecture, Einstein. Any more preachings for the day ? I just gave four examples of practical situations where the strong dominate the weak (and impose some kinda loyalty), you ignored whatever did not suit you, picked what you wanted to respond to and then dismissed them using BS. I have been through green card processing myself and i have sponsored green cards to many of my employees, i know how this process works. Once you start working for your employer you are pretty much bonded to that employer for many years until you reach the I-485 stage, at which point, if the sponsoring employer wishes to leave the I-140 uncancelled, you could port your 485. If you do not understand why this imposes professional loyalty, you are just wasting my time. This is 10 times worse than anything IPL players go through.

and can you stop this nonfactual nonsense about the player's employer being ipl? -only for a particular period covered by the contract . That's huge difference from being a permanent employee. and also a sporting career has some differences from a corporate career.though it is also professional, not all analogies work.they don't go to work daily throughout the year for one !

How is there a huge difference between the two ? And dont start giving me your pedantic BS. I dont want to hear things like permanent employees get 401k and IPL players dont. Such differences are hardly relevant here. Whether the employment term is permanent or yearly is moot. Bottom line is that there is an employee who offers services to an employer for money and the employer enforces some restrictions on the employee for this job. In the case of corporate employment, my job prevents me to be simultaneously employed with a competitor. I dont see how IPL contract is any worse. RCB & CD are competitors in the SAME tournament. And restricting Taylor from playing for CD is no different than what every corporate employer does.

A player's primary employer is his cricket board.without them, no ipl or cl.

Says who ? The last time i checked Symonds was playing for the Chargers without CA employing him. Also there is Jacob Oram (retired NZ player, not employed by NZ board anymore) and even Stephen Fleming (played for CSK, after retiring from international cricket). So stop ranting cluelessly. And IPL recognizes players international duties. This is why IPL agreed to pay playerson a prorata basis.

you are just a online hack. the goal of the stakeholders is to sell the product . if the fans don't feel passionate about supporting the teams(can only happen over a period of time), this product will end sooner or later for lack of demand. if the bcci runs it the clownish way as it has run our cricket in cricketing and soem administrative aspects, then the product is going to be tarnished.

There you go, there is some light at the end of the tunnel for you. You got that right. If the fans dont feel passionate about supporting the teams the CL will die. But as usual you have missed the crux of the point. Who are the relevant fans here ? We are talking millions of Indian fans that bring TV revenue. If you think CL is scared of pi$$ing of some central districts fans I got nothing to say, continue to delude yourself :hysterical: Indian fans care about their ace foreign players representing them, so their team has a higher chance of winning. If Indian teams win, more fans will watch which will bring in more revenue. If instead CL is run your clownish way, the IPL and CL will fold up in a year. Oh, did I talk about running a business with you. My apologies:hysterical: PS: Unless you address the central themes of the discussion, i dont plan on wasting my time with you. Address the questions i have posed and I'll honor you with a response or spare me your rubbish!

[atul]

But i think apart from IPL teams , others teams must be happy to receive $20000 per player. so they can spend this money on their domestic players.

[yoda]

But i think apart from IPL teams ' date=' others teams must be happy to receive $20000 per player. so they can spend this money on their domestic players.[/quote'] 200k, not 20k.