THX_1138 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter Wtf is wrong with Gujurat? First there are riots, then the mastermind behind the riots is reelected and then this shit? Whatever happened to due process? Habeas Corpus? This frackface Modi has given Carte Blanche to his law enforcement... soon the victims will be law abiding civilians... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter Wtf is wrong with Gujurat? First there are riots, then the mastermind behind the riots is reelected and then this ****? Whatever happened to due process? Habeas Corpus? This frackface Modi has given Carte Blanche to his law enforcement... soon the victims will be law abiding civilians... gain either ur gnorance or ur prejudice is coming forth......if u could go through NHRC report gujarat is by far the most peaceful state viz a viz enocunter killing or custodial death. Leaders are maarashtra and Ap. problme with people is they have bene bombarded so many times modi this modi that , that they are willing to buy into anything wihtout examining the report. I have given some tidbits from latest NHRC reportin one post in thsi thread . REPORT is online u can check it urself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter Wtf is wrong with Gujurat? First there are riots, then the mastermind behind the riots is reelected and then this ****? Whatever happened to due process? Habeas Corpus? This frackface Modi has given Carte Blanche to his law enforcement... soon the victims will be law abiding civilians... gain either ur gnorance or ur prejudice is coming forth......if u could go through NHRC report gujarat is by far the most peaceful state viz a viz enocunter killing or custodial death. Leaders are maarashtra and Ap. problme with people is they have bene bombarded so many times modi this modi that , that they are willing to buy into anything wihtout examining the report. I have given some tidbits from latest NHRC reportin one post in thsi thread . REPORT is online u can check it urself. ah... so we are judging states by the number of custodial deaths? i guess then the number murders and state sponsored genocides during riots are not indicative of safety or peacefulness... i am guilty of ignorance regarding the NHRC report and listed numbers, but your illogic is much more prevailing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter I am underliing whipped up frenzy when something is conncedt with gujrat.. heck even the same episode AP police is involved too but noone is talking about AP.. And I say that only the Hindu brigade is getting beat up into frenzy here, only because Gujrat is invoked. Here is a question to you - How many Indian States have conceded in Supreme Court that they have killed an Indian citizen and burnt their bodies? I have given you the link up above about Gujrat from Indian Express. Can you please do the same for other states thats doing the round right now? xxxx http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070201/j&k.htm http://www.hrdc.net/sahrdc/hrfeatures/HRF82.htm I say just put any state's name u will get the result.. it's not rocket science.. Encounter killing of hadened criminal is must it may be illegal but remains desirable nonetheless.. this thug has already murdered 50+ people wonder why are we sheding tears for him.. i wud ay gujarat govt has some consicnen that's why it accepted otherwise we have vultures like cpm govt who still is defending killings.. Hindu/muslim tubelight one of the gangsetr killed is hindu one is muslim... question being asked is why treat same case same crime with different yardstick. why not put all party to same sort of media trial. Slow down ace...Before you start rabbling your endless Muslim rhetoric do read my original question. Let me put it here again. How many Indian States have conceded in Supreme Court that they have killed an Indian citizen and burnt their bodies? Can you be concise and answer this instead of trying to put a spin like you always do? xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter Ah... unconsitutional and absolutely illegal murders of even the most hardened criminals might be desirable to the fringe elements of the society who are quick to jump the gun and do not realize the potential can of worms that can subsequently be opened! After reading the previous posts i do feel that while this is an isolated incident in the history of Gujurat Police related custodial deaths, the Gujurat Police is anything but innocent when it comes to fair and legal enforcement of the law. Remember, the biggest threat to a society is not from the criminals but from the police that has been armed on the behalf of the populace to fight the criminals for if this police is not tempered with a series of checks and balances, it might turn its guns on the very people it swore to protect. i would recommend that you guys all watch Denzel Washington's "The Seige" which rather worringly prognosticated the circumstances of rampant racial and ethnic discrimination that might stem from a terrorist attack on American Soil. I think we are steadily viewing Pakistan in every criminal that we stumble across who happens to be of the Islamic persuation. While every criminal who has some connection with Pakistan is a muslim, not every muslim who is a criminal is a traitor in cohots with the pakistanis... though criminal behavior is itself a form of treachery to the nation... its different from being a foreign lackey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter Sohrabuddins wife was raped multiple times by all the cops involved and then burnt alive. What the fu** do u have to say about that DR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter Slow down ace...Before you start rabbling your endless Muslim rhetoric do read my original question. Let me put it here again. How many Indian States have conceded in Supreme Court that they have killed an Indian citizen and burnt their bodies? Can you be concise and answer this instead of trying to put a spin like you always do? Every state at one stage or another has lost case of custodial death in court meaning accepted police has killed someone illegally. Repeat after me thousand times. I know ur relationship with truth is not that cordial u tend to squirm on being faced with one. Again here u find NHRC data uncomfortable so u chose to ignore that. Fact is Gujarat is one of the least guilty state as far as custodial death and fake encounter is concerned. Maharshtra AP both congress ruled leads the pack. BTW this information has not been gleaned from Panchjanya it comes from NHRC report. Don't hide and duck, face the truth. Anyway point was not hindu/muslim in this issue u have broahced up that but when someone responds to that u get all queery. Point was saem case three states concequently three CMs are involved so why pick one CM give the other two clean chit. One of the CM i.e congressi Reddy's state even rules the roost in custodial death so why give him clean chit. I say go crazy with coverage if u will but be fair. PS: I am not defedning Modi or anyone I am pointing out malicious biassed media coverage. As far as I am concerned if at all police is guilty of incompetence by viortue of leavign incriminating evidence. Clowns like soharabuidden and Prajaptu deserve what they got. See DON she is gone noone has access to her dead body either so it's free for all everyday some new claim will be throan and next day withdrawn due to lack of evidence. We have seen tamasha of claims and counter-claims on BOB Woolmer episode recently so we should know better. [Many tend to think she is innocent because is woman remember Monika Bedi, hey no decent person remains in deadlock with a criminal of 50+ murder fame] There u go: http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india/05_2007/kausar-bi-was-not-raped-sources-39608.html another report claimign nothing of that sort which u mentioned happened. Very interesting news piece here for all the media clowns who were trying to communalize the inciden tbtw they do this and then accuse Modi for taking political mileage:-) Here muslim dwellers of pollice officers village are giving him clean cheat. http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india/05_2007/tainted-gujarat-cop-no-fallen-hero-39581.html Godhara post-godhara baad mein discuss kar lena waise hai bhi kya discuss karne ko reams have been written. Kahte hain na baat nikalegi to door talak jayegi. So confine urself to this topic of police high-handedness if u will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter Ah... unconsitutional and absolutely illegal murders of even the most hardened criminals might be desirable to the fringe elements of the society who are quick to jump the gun and do not realize the potential can of worms that can subsequently be opened! I would say it's undesirable to the fringe elment not many are shedding tears over hardened criminals being taken care of by police in extra-judicial manner. After reading the previous posts i do feel that while this is an isolated incident in the history of Gujurat Police related custodial deaths, the Gujurat Police is anything but innocent when it comes to fair and legal enforcement of the law. If custodial death is yardstick no police in the world is innocent and if u look at objectively this mission of opposing against custodial deaths should start from Maha and AP. As per report Guj police seems to be betetr behaved compratively to the secualr bastionf os Maha and AP. Again if u are willing to look at the issue objectively. Remember, the biggest threat to a society is not from the criminals but from the police that has been armed on the behalf of the populace to fight the criminals for if this police is not tempered with a series of checks and balances, it might turn its guns on the very people it swore to protect. Where did u get this from. aakashwani hui thi kya. Custodial death has been going on since ages for criminals like these I didn't see India turning into sudan or Iraq. There are checks and balances in place. What kind of constitution we have I don't understand whihc lets these crminals with 50+ murder run free. Anyway police found guilty will get the punishment. In my book he is guilty of being an idiot. If at all i am going to shed tears for this police officer not for the anti-social element. Police doesn't resort to this for fun when they have no avenues left then they take this sort of decisions. i would recommend that you guys all watch Denzel Washington's "The Seige" which rather worringly prognosticated the circumstances of rampant racial and ethnic discrimination that might stem from a terrorist attack on American Soil. Over exaggerated comparisons being drawn here. I think we are steadily viewing Pakistan in every criminal that we stumble across who happens to be of the Islamic persuation. While every criminal who has some connection with Pakistan is a muslim, not every muslim who is a criminal is a traitor in cohots with the pakistanis... though criminal behavior is itself a form of treachery to the nation... its different from being a foreign lackey. Again ignorance and prejudice coming to the fore one guy killed was muslim another hindu. Where is commuanl bias here. Read this news piece and see how muslim vilaagers of Banjara's place are swearing by innocence of Banjara. Travesty is first media and prejudiced people pontificate looking at everythign from communal angle and then complain why so and so is taking political mileage out of it. Little consistency goes a long way brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter Sohrabuddins wife was raped multiple times by all the cops involved and then burnt alive. What the fu** do u have to say about that DR? Not correct. according to news....the one cop who was with her raped her ...when she threatened to expose ...the police poisoned her and then burnt her body. This is what is in the media....not that it makes it any less hineous.just correcting the" raped multiple times by all the cops involved and then burnt alive. " part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter Not correct. according to news....the one cop who was with her raped her ...when she threatened to expose ...the police poisoned her and then burnt her body. This is what is in the media....not that it makes it any less hineous.just correcting the" raped multiple times by all the cops involved and then burnt alive. " part. All these are conjectures now nothing can be confirmed.. it's like how bob woolmer died episode.. In bob's case they have body at least here they got nothing baseless airy fairy talking is rampant. only thing that is confirmed is that she is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter I disagree with extra-judicial killings, regardless of where it occurs. That is, was and always will be an instrument of the government who doesn't want to respect the public's rights completely. The reasons why it should be opposed, even if the target is a multiple murderer running around in the wild are: 1. Setting a precedent. People don't worry about this but this has an effect on our society. You do something once, doing it the second time becomes easiler - not only just in terms of degree of competence but also in terms of justification. You genocide once, the second genocide is just a little bit easier to swallow/accept. Extra-judicial killings if accepted in the society (ie, we follow the D_R/Bheem's school of thought instead of asking for the culprit cops to be held accountable) can be disastrous in the future when the country faces challenges such as civil revolution or transition from one form of government to another. Such is very well demonstrated in the west and why some western countries get really up in arms when their cops abuse the citizenry ( eg: Germany). 2. Collateral damage. As far as i am concerned, taking out a mass-murderer is not an option if it means you are endangering the life of an innocent. Since its innocent until proven guilty, the dead wife was an innocent killed by the police. For such reasons alone i oppose the idea. Try personalizing the issue and see if you find it palatable - one fine day, when nothing is out of the ordinary, you get a call informing you that your dad/bro/mom etc. got blown to bits by the cops, they are very sorry but they were in the way of some nutter terrorist they were chasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter I disagree with extra-judicial killings, regardless of where it occurs. That is, was and always will be an instrument of the government who doesn't want to respect the public's rights completely. The reasons why it should be opposed, even if the target is a multiple murderer running around in the wild are: 1. Setting a precedent. People don't worry about this but this has an effect on our society. You do something once, doing it the second time becomes easiler - not only just in terms of degree of competence but also in terms of justification. You genocide once, the second genocide is just a little bit easier to swallow/accept. Extra-judicial killings if accepted in the society (ie, we follow the D_R/Bheem's school of thought instead of asking for the culprit cops to be held accountable) can be disastrous in the future when the country faces challenges such as civil revolution or transition from one form of government to another. Such is very well demonstrated in the west and why some western countries get really up in arms when their cops abuse the citizenry ( eg: Germany). 2. Collateral damage. As far as i am concerned, taking out a mass-murderer is not an option if it means you are endangering the life of an innocent. Since its innocent until proven guilty, the dead wife was an innocent killed by the police. For such reasons alone i oppose the idea. Try personalizing the issue and see if you find it palatable - one fine day, when nothing is out of the ordinary, you get a call informing you that your dad/bro/mom etc. got blown to bits by the cops, they are very sorry but they were in the way of some nutter terrorist they were chasing. Extra-judicial killing has been on since independence and I am yet to see the doomsday picture u have painted where an innocent gentry gets a calls from polioce that so and so has been eliminated and nothing is done. Anyway my beef in putting this thread is not with what ur or for that matter someone else's stand is on extra-judicial killing. Nothing you are goign to say that will change my stand viz a viz hardened criminals like sohrabudden being meted the treatment they get. My beef is why this biassed media coverage in wake of following facts (1) Maharashtra , AP congress ruled state lead the table of extra-judicial killing (2) Even iun this particular case AP Rajsthan police too are involved and particualrly Ap has track record of doing this sort of things so why not put Reddy to media trail too as they are doing to Modi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter Extra-judicial killing has been on since independence and I am yet to see the doomsday picture u have painted where an innocent gentry gets a calls from polioce that so and so has been eliminated and nothing is done. Our democracy is very young. It'll do you well to remember that US had its civil war 70 years after Independence...we havn't had it yet. Doesnt mean we won't have one either. As the young indian democracy walks in the footsteps of older democracies and tries to carve out a new niche, care must be taken not to repeat mistakes of others senselessly. Extra-judicial killings is one such thing. Unless it has anything to do with national security, extra-judicial killings are off the table. Period. And by national security, i mean issues that are directly pertaining to the security of the nation-such as a spy or general defecting etc. and not creatively extending it to cover all crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter Extra-judicial killing has been on since independence and I am yet to see the doomsday picture u have painted where an innocent gentry gets a calls from polioce that so and so has been eliminated and nothing is done. Our democracy is very young. It'll do you well to remember that US had its civil war 70 years after Independence...we havn't had it yet. Doesnt mean we won't have one either. As the young indian democracy walks in the footsteps of older democracies and tries to carve out a new niche, care must be taken not to repeat mistakes of others senselessly. Extra-judicial killings is one such thing. Unless it has anything to do with national security, extra-judicial killings are off the table. Period. And by national security, i mean issues that are directly pertaining to the security of the nation-such as a spy or general defecting etc. and not creatively extending it to cover all crime. Civil war happens when there is bias in any sort of perceived injustice towards any particualr group so comparison with USA is as flawed as they come. To me this extra-judicial killing doesn't look like biassed at all. Even in this episode secualr style of encounter is well and obvious. Go scurrying for innocent people killed in ecnounter and put their number in percentage terms of all the fake encounters and get back to me. If the number crosses let us say 4% I might be inclined to buy your doomsday picturization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter Every state at one stage or another has lost case of custodial death in court meaning accepted police has killed someone illegally. Repeat after me thousand times. I know ur relationship with truth is not that cordial u tend to squirm on being faced with one. Again here u find NHRC data uncomfortable so u chose to ignore that. Fact is Gujarat is one of the least guilty state as far as custodial death and fake encounter is concerned. Maharshtra AP both congress ruled leads the pack. BTW this information has not been gleaned from Panchjanya it comes from NHRC report. Don't hide and duck, face the truth. Anyway point was not hindu/muslim in this issue u have broahced up that but when someone responds to that u get all queery. Point was saem case three states concequently three CMs are involved so why pick one CM give the other two clean chit. One of the CM i.e congressi Reddy's state even rules the roost in custodial death so why give him clean chit. I say go crazy with coverage if u will but be fair. PS: I am not defedning Modi or anyone I am pointing out malicious biassed media coverage. As far as I am concerned if at all police is guilty of incompetence by viortue of leavign incriminating evidence. Clowns like soharabuidden and Prajaptu deserve what they got. See DON she is gone noone has access to her dead body either so it's free for all everyday some new claim will be throan and next day withdrawn due to lack of evidence. We have seen tamasha of claims and counter-claims on BOB Woolmer episode recently so we should know better. [Many tend to think she is innocent because is woman remember Monika Bedi, hey no decent person remains in deadlock with a criminal of 50+ murder fame] There u go: http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india/05_2007/kausar-bi-was-not-raped-sources-39608.html another report claimign nothing of that sort which u mentioned happened. Very interesting news piece here for all the media clowns who were trying to communalize the inciden tbtw they do this and then accuse Modi for taking political mileage:-) Here muslim dwellers of pollice officers village are giving him clean cheat. http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india/05_2007/tainted-gujarat-cop-no-fallen-hero-39581.html Godhara post-godhara baad mein discuss kar lena waise hai bhi kya discuss karne ko reams have been written. Kahte hain na baat nikalegi to door talak jayegi. So confine urself to this topic of police high-handedness if u will. Man you are thick!! Thick with a capital T. Instead of writing all that cr@p up above, how about you give me a to the point answer? Let me repeat all over again, since you do not seem to understand... How many Indian States have conceded in Supreme Court that they have killed an Indian citizen and burnt their bodies? There, lets make it easy this time DR. Put up or shut up. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter Whats your point Lurks ? I mean we have a Kashmir situation where every TDH worth his salt took part in systematically driving out the KPs .... every single one of them was driven out ? Ofcourse there is no "Certificate" from the SC but then that doesnt mean the KPs are still living peacfully in the valley .. My point is rather simple - what Gujrat Govt and Gujrat Police has done is completely despicable and deserves all the criticism, and more, that it is getting. Agree or disagree BB? xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter To me this extra-judicial killing doesn't look like biassed at all. You are failing to put two and two together. The issue is not whether extra-judicial killings from cops lead to revolutions and civil wars. Most often, they do not, sometimes, they do. The issue is with establishing a trend. If you have a culture of extra-judicial killings like say Russia has, then everytime there is a period of unstability (happens with EVERY country with EVERY form of government, just a matter of time it happens to India too) that leads to a government change/fall with constitutional crisis in the picture, the death-count of the innocent public is a zillion times greater than it needs be. Its the culture of extra-judicial killings in Iraq for example that has made the situation a million-times worse right now. Because Saddam and everyone before did it, its ingrained in the Iraqi mindset that its okay to kill people if they appear to be villains (before proving it in court). So right now, when the state is in disarray, people are stepping in to settle personal vendettas by the extra-judicial killing means. This is something that is very real but its not covered much (Except in CBC) because of the far bigger problem with sectarian/political violence. Yes, that is the result of pandering to the mentality that its okay to indulge in extra-judicial killings and okay for cops to kill people before court has pronounced a verdict. These sort of misguided gung-ho ideas of justice often comes to bite you in the hiney when shyte hits the fan. If you cannot realize this, then your comprehension of history and cultural trends is shakier than i thought. The police can never be allowed to kill except in self defence or in implicit order of the court. Those two criterias apart, the Police has zero reasons to kill anyone at any given time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter It's good to see CC and THX posting again. I missed them both for the enthusiasm they bring to this forum. Hope Gator comes back as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter The issue is with establishing a trend. Trend word doesn't belong here. Rest assured constituition in its presetnf form whenver finds them guilty of extra-judicial killing does what it's stipulated to do. If I had my way I would bring some sterner lwaws so that these habitual culripts don't win their way with reasily and keep committing the crime with reckless abandon. Since we are living ina country where even well intentioned legislations can't be put in place then cops under utter frutration are doing the best they can. This may be crime in eye of law but as far as I am concerned they have done nothing wrong morally. Btw why everyone is verring away from the main topic of discusison whihc is basically media's biassed cover of the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Re: A gangster extortionist killed in fake encounter Sohrabuddins wife was raped multiple times by all the cops involved and then burnt alive. What the fu** do u have to say about that DR? This farcical news piece has already been called a baseless conjecture that it is. As far as murder charge is concerned well my stance is same as soharabudeen case, she is as much guilty as her husband . Woman doesn't mean innocent Monika bedi too is a woman. BTW none of u psecs have refernced prajapti in all of ur posts either sohrabudden or his wife.. I wonder why :wall: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts