Five ways to show that Sachin is not that Great

[ludhianvi]

Yep, somehow 50 runs in the last innings is given more importance than 50 in the first though in the context of the game, both matter the same.

Perhaps going on a tangent but I think scoring in the 4th innings is much harder especially on deteriorating/crumbling Indian pitches offering uneven bounce on day5. Just look at the innings totals for this match for an example.

[CSK Fan]

i agree sachin played a very poor shot yesterday. he is the greatest batsman of all time, but does not change the fact that under critical pressure situations he has failed more often than he has succeeded.

No batsmen in the world have consistantly delivered in similar situations. As the stats above show, he has done it almost or better than his peers. What is being pointed out is that Sachin is criticised more than others

[CSK Fan]

Perhaps going on a tangent but I think scoring in the 4th innings is much harder especially on deteriorating/crumbling Indian pitches offering uneven bounce on day5. Just look at the innings totals for this match for an example.

Fair point. Would you then say its easier to do the same outside sub-continent then? For example, Ponting's fourth innings record is great. Might it be because it gets easoer to play in Aus when the ball is old?

[The Outsider]

Fourth innings chases require one to step back, take a deep breath, and then talk about them. Too much limited overs cricket has reduced fourth innings chases to a triviality. There is no shortage of people starting to play book cricket of the runs, wicket, overs, and time ratios with the perspective of limited overs cricket. My first experiences of this came during the India-Pakistan test match at Bangalore in 2005 and the India-Australia test match at Chennai in 2004. It was during the first few months of my having joined an online cricket forum - the old ICF. At Chennai, India needed 210 runs on the last day pitch and a significant percentage of the board was behaving as if India had been robbed of a certain win, when the rains came pouring in. It just did not register with me, sure India had a decent chance, but chasing anything above 200 in India had never been easy. Surely, these people knew about this. I put it down to misplaced optimism of passionate fans and moved on. Bangalore 2005 really drilled in the point into me that majority of people do not understand the challenge behind fourth innings chases. India needed some 380 odd runs in a shade under 100 overs. There were 'realistic' scenarios being bandied about how India needs to bat till lunch/tea and then go for the 'charge'. To quote the typical American teenager, 'I was like what the phuck!' These people expect a team to chase down close to 400 runs at 4 runs per over on a day 5 pitch, which was breaking up. At lunch, with around 280 runs to get in two sessions, many were talking about a win, saying it's the perfect one day scenario with a required run rate of around 4.5 over 60 overs. Fourth innings chases are tough, and the toughest in India and perhaps Sri Lanka. No team, however great, can pull them off on a consistent basis. India has done it a quite a few times over the last few years, but that does not make the task any simpler. It's simply a reflection of the team's strength and partially a result of more batting friendly conditions. That Tendulkar has done poorly in these chases is an utterly false impression. Taking fourth innings averages without context is a hazardous exercise because the number of innings is typically quite small. Just one unbeaten big innings can change the numbers around. Tendulkar, the most capped cricketer in test history, has played only 48 fourth innings. On many occasions the target has been so small that his failure or success was immaterial to a chase like at Trent Bridge 2007. On many other occasions the target has been so big or out of range, that it's a only a matter of time before the last rites are read like at Karachi 2006. A typical successful fourth innings chase on a difficult pitch, which a lot of Indian and Sri Lankan pitches become by the 5th day, involves a team contribution and luck. Such is the nature of these chases that the ball which has a batsman's name on it is never far off. There would be one innings which would form the backbone of the chase like Laxman's innings here at Mohali and there would be other supporting acts played around the backbone innings. There hasn't been any batsman in the game who has regularly conjured up backbone innings in the fourth essay. In fact, Gavaskar, Ponting and Sarwan are the only batsmen to have scored 4 centuries in the last innings of a test. Here is a list of batsmen who have scored 3 or more centuries in the 4th innings of a test : http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;innings_number=4;orderby=hundreds;qualmin1=3;qualval1=hundreds;template=results;type=batting 11 batsmen. And do notice names like Gavaskar, Smith, Greenidge. They are all openers. A few number 3s like Ponting and Younis Khan. Change this criteria to batsmen who have batted only 4 and below : http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmin1=4;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;innings_number=4;orderby=hundreds;qualmin1=3;qualval1=hundreds;template=results;type=batting Only one name remains - Tendulkar. It is not easy to play backbone knocks in the 4th innings from lower down the order. Openers have the luxury to get settled against a newer ball before the ball gets rough and starts turning. They also get some soft targets in their careers. Since Tendulkar made his debut, India has chased down over 200 runs successfully 6 times : http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/team/6.html?class=1;filter=advanced;innings_number=4;orderby=start;result=1;runsmin1=200;runsval1=runs;spanmin1=01+Jan+1989;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team;view=results He did not play the Kandy match. At Adelaide, where Dravid played the backbone innings, he played a very good support act with 37 runs adding 70 runs for the 3rd wicket. At Kotla, Tendulkar played the anchor innings, with Jaffer and Ganguly playing around him. At Chennai, Tendulkar again played the anchor innings with Sehwag before him and Yuvraj with him providing the impetus. At Colombo, when Laxman played the backbone innings Tendulkar's support act was the strongest. And at Mohali, with Laxman top scoring, Tendulkar was the second highest scorer and along with Ishant played the main support act. Fourth innings chases need support acts. It's way too naive to say things like some player does not deliver under pressure without looking into the innings and circumstances surrounding them in detail. During Lara's 153, he was dropped in second slip 10-12 runs away from the win while Akram held on to the skier by Tendulkar during his 136. Is that fine a line there is between being called the greatest finisher and a choker? Surely, the subject deserves a bit more analysis than that! Ponting got the chance to score a fourth innings century against Bangladesh. How is it Tendulkar's fault if India has never even come into a situation where there were enough runs for a batsman to score a fourth innings hundred against Bangladesh? These are tags of convenience floated around without a proper understanding of the game.

[Ultimate_Game]

Wish Tendulkar and India prove me wrong on a regular basis :biggrin: Next item on the list - Tendulkar hasn't been part of the world cup winning team and can't win the big one :winky: