Sri Lanka tour of Australia, Nov 2010

[Andy]

Thongale, the one Century Mahela got against NZ was also on a flat track of Napier, where a batsmen averages a 38 so that doesnt count then too?

[thongale]

Care to check his stats against Mcgrath' date=' Pollock? The first Match he played against SA was against Pollock and he scored a 100, the only time Mcgrath Played in AUS when Sehwag played was in 2005 super series and he scored a 70 odd. Now count that average and Compare that with Mahela.[/quote']Mahela played that same Pollock and Co about 6 months back and score 98, only 7 less runs than Sehwag. Is that the 7 runs which makes your point? And you point about McGrath has no relevance because 1. they played him in a totally different times of his career. 2. That is stat picking. I can replace McGrath with Steyn and ask you to do the same. But that doesn't prove anything.

[thongale]

Ok now consider a cut off of 2003 WC, take a look at what Mahela did when playing against those bowlers away from home. http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/49289.html?class=1;filter=advanced;host=1;host=2;host=3;host=4;host=5;host=7;orderby=default;spanmax1=31+mar+2003;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround 14 tests, 880-0dd runs, 35 average, 1 100. And out of the bowlers you mentioned, Mahela did not play against Imran, Ambrose , Walsh and Devilliers. DId not play a test against Mcgrath and Gillespie away from Sri Lanka prior to the 2003 WC either.

Mahela did play Wasim and Waqar IIRC. At least he has played more class seamers than Sehwag. If Sehwag batted in that era wouldn't have done much better than that. The whole point is not to say Mahela > Sehwag. That they are both similar.

[Andy]

Mahela played that same Pollock and Co about 6 months back and score 98, only 7 less runs than Sehwag. Is that the 7 runs which makes your point? And you point about McGrath has no relevance because 1. they played him in a totally different times of his career. 2. That is stat picking. I can replace McGrath with Steyn and ask you to do the same. But that doesn't prove anything.

Different times true, But why it has no revelence? Care to check stats of other bastmen against Mcgrath that time? He played Mcgrath in 2004 also but in India, where none scored a century, he scored one 150. And not just Mcgrath, during those Days IIRC Mcgrath, Gillespie, Pollock and Donald were the best in the business. And Sehwag played against 3 of them. It just doesnt matter which phase of Mcgrath he is playing against as long as Mcgrath's performance didnt dip by a long margin.

[thongale]

Thongale' date=' the one Century Mahela got against NZ was also on a flat track of Napier, where a batsmen averages a 38 so that doesnt count then too?[/quote']You'll be surprised to see that few of Sehwag's centuries also could be counted out similarly. Where does it stop mate?

[Andy]

Mahela did play Wasim and Waqar IIRC. At least he has played more class seamers than Sehwag. If Sehwag batted in that era wouldn't have done much better than that. The whole point is not to say Mahela > Sehwag. That they are both similar.

Yes Mahela played Wasim and Waqar, but where in SC? Are we talking about them? Even Sehwag has played Steyn and Morkel in India. He also played, Gillespie and Mcgrath.

[thongale]

Different times true, But why it has no revelence? Care to check stats of other bastmen against Mcgrath that time? He played Mcgrath in 2004 also but in India, where none scored a century, he scored one 150. And not just Mcgrath, during those Days IIRC Mcgrath, Gillespie, Pollock and Donald were the best in the business. And Sehwag played against 3 of them. It just doesnt matter which phase of Mcgrath he is playing against as long as Mcgrath's performance didnt dip by a long margin.

Even that is the case the point 2 will still applicable. Just replace McGrath with Steyn and try to base your opinion on that. Player A's average when Player B was part of the opposition team means close to nothing.

[Andy]

You'll be surprised to see that few of Sehwag's centuries also could be counted out similarly. Where does it stop mate?

My point is you cannot be calling Sehwag's performances outside SC as an Effort on Flat tracks. You should acccept all his performances outisde SC without branding them as Flat ones etc etc. If you do so, bring in stats to prove how MCG is flat and Napier isnt, am ready for it.

[saneindian]

Mahela did play Wasim and Waqar IIRC. At least he has played more class seamers than Sehwag. If Sehwag batted in that era wouldn't have done much better than that. The whole point is not to say Mahela > Sehwag. That they are both similar.

Where am I saying he did not play Wasim and Waqar. The bolded part is your presumption and when someone starts running to self-presumptions for rescue in a debate, thats a good indicator that there are no further arguments from the other side.

[thongale]

My point is you cannot be calling Sehwag's performances outside SC as an Effort on Flat tracks. You should acccept all his performances outisde SC without branding them as Flat ones etc etc. If you do so' date=' bring in stats to prove how MCG is flat and Napier isnt, am ready for it.[/quote']I have proved that adjusted average (that is if player played similar amount of matches against each opposition to rule out the number bias) they'll average 39 and 37 respectively. There I disregarded all the flat track vs lively track arguments. And the harping on MCG vs Napier etc shows now that you are running back to isolated incidents while I've taken the whole picture. To prove it otherwise, ball is in your court.

[Andy]

Even that is the case the point 2 will still applicable. Just replace McGrath with Steyn and try to base your opinion on that. Player A's average when Player B was part of the opposition team means close to nothing.

I do not understand this, you measure a player's greatness on his performance against great bowlers. If you are not ready to accept Mcgrath (of that time) as a great, never you will even if Sehwag performed against the Mcgrath of the 90's. If you talk abou Steyn like you said Sehwag was going through the worst phase of his career and that series was his last one before he was recalled again in 2008. So when Mahela cannot do well against Mcgrath ,Gilespie, Pollock, Donald, Ntini outside Lanka Sehwag has a clear upperhand as he has done beter.

[thongale]

Where am I saying he did not play Wasim and Waqar. The bolded part is your presumption and when someone starts running to self-presumptions for rescue in a debate, thats a good indicator that there are no further arguments from the other side.

Now what is your presumption? Will Sehwag average 40+ against Wasim and Waqar? (Because Sehwag has never played them we have to presume. The way he played bowlers of similar class indicated would't have done much more than Mahela, who has faced up to both sets)

[Andy]

I have proved that adjusted average (that is if player played similar amount of matches against each opposition to rule out the number bias) they'll average 39 and 37 respectively. There I disregarded all the flat track vs lively track arguments. And the harping on MCG vs Napier etc shows now that you are running back to isolated incidents while I've taken the whole picture. To prove it otherwise' date=' ball is in your court.[/quote'] Allrite Mahela averages 36 outside SC being a Middle Order bat and Sehwag averages 41 outside SC being an Opening bat. Hence Sehwag > Mahela.

[thongale]

I do not understand this' date=' you measure a player's greatness on his performance against great bowlers. If you are not ready to accept Mcgrath (of that time) as a great, never you will even if Sehwag performed against the Mcgrath of the 90's. If you talk abou Steyn like you said Sehwag was going through the worst phase of his career and that series was his last one before he was recalled again in 2008. So when Mahela cannot do well against Mcgrath ,Gilespie, Pollock, Donald, Ntini outside Lanka Sehwag has a clear upperhand as he has done beter.[/quote'] 1: Player A vs Player B: averages does not tell the whole story. There are two ways to player great bowler. First to attack him and take runs off him. Second see him off and score from others. Player As average in matches involving player B won't tell us which way he has gone. 2: Don't bring out excuses. When I said Mahela played on livelier tracks in AUS than Sehwag, still I said I would give it to Sehwag. I never brought out petty excuses that off form, my head aches, my dog died etc. If he was in poor form then that's another phase of his career. Picking the peaks only is intellectual dishonesty. If you pick the peaks Sami > Zaheer easily. 3: You have yet to prove that Sehwag did significantly well outside SC than Mahela. There adjusted averages just differ by 2 runs. It is not a significant difference

[thongale]

Allrite Mahela averages 36 outside SC being a Middle Order bat and Sehwag averages 41 outside SC being an Opening bat. Hence Sehwag > Mahela.

Wrong. You have to look at adjusted averages because the number of matches they played against each country i different. Just assume what they do if they play 1 match each. That is to add up the averages and divide by the number of sides. Mahela averages 37.2 and Sehwag 39.3 on that. Nothing much of a difference.

[vaibhav_delhi]

That shows that you've lost the argument. Attacking the poster when you cannot attack the post.:--D

I have already given my 5 point reply. One doesnt need to reply to each of your stupid replies. You have proven ur cricketing intellect in the last page for mine, so I am not even bothering to read ur posts anymore:) Keep living in ur fool's paradise.

[Andy]

2: Don't bring out excuses. When I said Mahela played on livelier tracks in AUS than Sehwag' date=' still I said I would give it to Sehwag. I never brought out petty excuses that off form, my head aches, my dog died etc. If he was in poor form then that's another phase of his career. Picking the peaks only is intellectual dishonesty. If you pick the peaks Sami > Zaheer easily.[/quote'] Umm Fair enough then , lets not talk about Facing great bowlers on their Peaks and their lows, if you cannot score you cannot score and if you can score its your credit, lets not bring any Excuses here, just as you said.

3: You have yet to prove that Sehwag did significantly well outside SC than Mahela. There adjusted averages just differ by 2 runs. It is not a significant difference

He did actually and its not a difference of two points its 5. Where Mahela averages 36 and Sehwag 41. Even if its two, then even there is significant diiference as Mahela is a middle Order bat, and Sehwag is a Opening batsman.

[Andy]

Wrong. You have to look at adjusted averages because the number of matches they played against each country i different. Just assume what they do if they play 1 match each. That is to add up the averages and divide by the number of sides. Mahela averages 37.2 and Sehwag 39.3 on that. Nothing much of a difference.

Not really lets just consider the first series booth played against each nation and then check the stats, am sure there will be a signifigant change of Average. BTW even if its two its big and signifigant as Sehwag is an Opener and Mahela is a middle Order bat. Here is the stat as i said Significant Difference here it is, Mahela's Average is 6 points lower than Sehwag when we include the first tours of both of them away from SC. That 6 points drop is huge when we consider Sehwag comes to bat at Number 1/2 and He comes to bat at Number 4. Mahela averages 38 STATS Sehwag averages 44 STATS :phehehe: End of Discussion as to who is a FTB. Another thing about Sehwag vs Mahela is that, Mahela is a HTB. Which is not the case for Sehwag. Mahela averages 42 outside Lanka. That says it all.

[vaibhav_delhi]

For thongale: mahela >lara, bcoz of his average. For rest of the world: mahela's record an embarassment which devalues test runs and test averages.

[girishk14]

IMO, both of them are among the best five batsmen of the decade. They shudnt be compared...they have different styles and different ways of winning matches. But Sehwag has team-mates who can bat which lets him play his natural game. Mahela plays in a team with like just 3 proper batsmen (dilshan, him n sanga) who can be called "batsman", and the others - (kapu, kandybar, prasanna, mathews, paranivitana ) - god knows y they even get selected for a national team, let alone a domestic side.