kumble_rocks Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 These Muslim countries are getting way out of hand. Muslims in general fail to speak out against this kind of persecution of minorities in the name of Allah in Islamic countries. But rest be assured , they will scream at the top of their lungs about Abu Ghraib or Gitmo incidents. Shows their double standard. As I was pointing out in the other thread . why I am concerned if Sharia becomes a reality in Europe and other places is because of laws like this. Very soon, muslims will demand the execution of homosexuals and polygamy for men just because it is part of Sharia law. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/juneweb-only/123-43.0.html Pakistan's Blasphemy Laws Strike Again--and May Get Worse Christian sentenced to death, nursing school shut down. Elizabeth Lawson | posted 6/07/2007 10:02AM Pakistan's controversial blasphemy laws have been used against Christians in two recent incidents, prompting a louder by groups who say the laws are abusive. Related articles and links Younis Masih, a 29-year-old Christian from Lahore, was sentenced to death on Wednesday, May 30, for allegedly making derogatory remarks about Muhammad in September 2005. On September 9, 2005, a neighbor of Masih's demanded that Christians gathering in their town observe Muslim and not Christian rituals, precipitating an argument between him and Masih, according to Masih's lawyer. The resident accused Masih of blasphemy two days later, and a lower-ranking officer investigated and arrested him. Masih's lawyer based his defense on the requirements of the law itself. In 2004, after increasing pleas for the amendment of blasphemy laws, Pakistan's national assembly made an effort to appease rights groups by permitting only senior police officers to investigate blasphemy cases, a measure which had not been implemented in Masih's case. Masih was not at the trial. He remained at Kol Lakhpat jail and appeared in the courtroom on video—the first video blasphemy trial in Pakistan. Masih's lawyer plans to appeal the death sentence, he told AsiaNews.it, a Catholic news service. In an incident later that week, Pakistani authorities cited blasphemy laws in suspending Christian faculty and students, and closing a nursing school in the capital city of Islamabad. On June 2, Muslim nursing students complained that Christian nursing students had defaced Qur'an verses about etiquette that had been posted above a water cooler. Accounts conflict about how the verses were defaced and whether any such thing happened. The Daily Times reports that the Pakistan Institute of Medical Science closed the school for 15 days, filed a blasphemy suit against unidentified persons, and suspended five of its Christian staff members—including the school's principal, who told the Associated Press that she was on leave at the time of the incident. Responding to rumors of blasphemy, 30 female students from Jamia Hafsa, a fundamentalist madrassa in Islamabad, along with 10 male students from Lal Masjid, another Muslim institution, gathered in front of the nurses' dormitory. According the to the Daily Times, they threatened to take over the dormitory. They argued with police but were not permitted to enter the building. Pakistan is a federal republic and has a legal system based both on English common law and on Islamic Shari'ah law. The country, which borders Afghanistan—a strategic position in the war on terror—has aligned with the United States against terrorist organizations. Events such as these blasphemy cases accentuate nationwide divisions about Islamic fundamentalism. On Tuesday, June 5, in his address in Prague, George Bush spoke broadly of the United States' efforts with its allies in the war on terror. "The United States is also using its influence to urge valued partners like Egypt and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to move toward freedom," he said. "The United States will continue to press nations like these to open up their political systems and give greater voice to their people. Inevitably, this creates tension. As our relationships with South Korea and Taiwan during the Cold War prove, America can maintain a friendship and push a nation toward democracy at the same time." Patricia Carley, associate director for policy at the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom, says that such tensions have had great influence on efforts to reform Pakistan's blasphemy laws. "Initially the Musharraf government showed some interest in amending the laws," she said. "The problem is he came up against stringent opposition from Islamist parties, so he backed down on his pledge to do something about them. The Musharraf government has allied with the Islamist parties and relies on the Islamist parties for its own legitimacy. Therefore, they have a lot of influence, even though they don't have that much popularity within Pakistan as a whole." Pope Benedict XVI appealed to the Pakistani government on Friday, June 1, for a closer adherence to the principles of democracy, which, he said, "assure the freedom to express political opinions publicly in a variety of ways. In this way, national solidarity is enhanced, and peaceful ways of reconciling differences are encouraged." Many other voices inside Pakistan and in the international community are also calling for reform or repeal of the blasphemy laws. But Musharraf has withdrawn his 2000 promise to amend the laws, and earlier this year, Pakistan's parliament rejected a proposal to reduce the punishment prescribed by blasphemy laws. Jeremy Sewall, policy analyst for International Christian Concern (ICC), one organization pushing for reform in Pakistan, said that their exhortation "seems to have fallen on deaf ears." Sewall also noted that Pakistan's parliament is considering a bill that would outlaw apostasy. Men who convert from Islam to any other religion would get the death penalty; women would receive life imprisonment. "It seems that Pakistan is going to get worse before it gets better," Sewall said. Still, Sewall believes pressure from the West can help. "The Pakistani government is trying to cooperate with the U.S. I think that we need to tell our representatives and our State Department and our President that human rights is an issue that we want them working on in Pakistan, and these are two examples of how human rights are not being protected," Sewall said. Carley also sees a place for Americans to act. She said Americans should "agitate United States officials to do more, because Pakistan gets a lot of aid from the U.S. The feeling is that the U.S. could ask for more efforts [by Pakistan] to implement reforms than it is currently [asking]." In addition to appealing to U.S. government officials, Sewall said, "Prayer is key. We need to be praying for changes of hearts in Pakistan." Elizabeth Lawson is news intern for Christianity Today.
Guest dada_rocks Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 These Muslim countries are getting way out of hand. Muslims in general fail to speak out against this kind of persecution of minorities in the name of Allah in Islamic countries. But rest be assured , they will scream at the top of their lungs about Abu Ghraib or Gitmo incidents. Shows their double standard. As I was pointing out in the other thread . why I am concerned if Sharia becomes a reality in Europe and other places is because of laws like this. Very soon, muslims will demand the execution of homosexuals and polygamy for men just because it is part of Sharia law. ...................................... Bitter truth is that all the pide-pipers of islam justify these rules quoting holy books. Few organization like CAIR might not agree but they are virtually non-existant voice among ummah anyway. Me thinks organization like CAIR's only purpose is to soften the blow of the rest of the folks exasperation induced actions . It's us rest of the folks idiocy that we are not seeing their macinations and still buying into baseless claim of "religion of peace tolerance coexistance etc". Folks don't go by some muslim friend u might have who comes of as normal human being. His/her normalcy can be traced back to the fact that he/she most certainly is a non-practicing sample.
kumble_rocks Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 These Muslim countries are getting way out of hand. Muslims in general fail to speak out against this kind of persecution of minorities in the name of Allah in Islamic countries. But rest be assured , they will scream at the top of their lungs about Abu Ghraib or Gitmo incidents. Shows their double standard. As I was pointing out in the other thread . why I am concerned if Sharia becomes a reality in Europe and other places is because of laws like this. Very soon, muslims will demand the execution of homosexuals and polygamy for men just because it is part of Sharia law. ...................................... Bitter truth is that all the pide-pipers of islam justify these rules quoting holy books. Few organization like CAIR might not agree but they are virtually non-existant voice among ummah anyway. Me thinks organization like CAIR's only purpose is to soften the blow of the rest of the folks exasperation induced actions . It's us rest of the folks idiocy that we are not seeing their macinations and still buying into baseless claim of "religion of peace tolerance coexistance etc". Folks don't go by some muslim friend u might have who comes of as normal human being. His/her normalcy can be traced back to the fact that he/she most certainly is a non-practicing sample. CAIR is useless organization which refuses to condemn Sharia in Saudi and Iran. I have rarely come across muslim posters even in PP who speak out against apostasy , polygamy or blasphemy. I still remember some of these muslim posters abject failure in condemning the some of draconian Islamic laws in the Afghan Christian case also last year.
CC1981 Posted June 7, 2007 Posted June 7, 2007 His/her normalcy can be traced back to the fact that he/she most certainly is a non-practicing sample. I know atleast 15 muslim folks of varied age who are both practicing ( still read Koran everyday/peforms Namaz) who are very 'normal' by non-muslim standards too. Only diff between the normal practicing ones and the normal unpracticing one is alcohol, food (pork) and sex(outside marriage) practices. Re the topic : Yeah, this is pretty insane. I'd like to see some of those Bangladeshi friends of ours justify this kind of sh!t in the Koran.
Anakin Posted June 8, 2007 Posted June 8, 2007 But it's written in the koran that it's the best. You gotta wonder how supposedly educated people believe crap like that. It's like saying and believing I'm the best because I said so. And CC there is a difference between doing prayers 5 times a day and really practicing koran as it is, like taslima nasreen said, there is no progressive muslims, it's just they don't follow the koran as rigorously as others.
gorah_pindu Posted June 8, 2007 Posted June 8, 2007 Its not like we dont have our own problems - there are some in India who seem to think Hinduism is an Abrahamic religion, with Rama and Krishna as prophets. Sure, India is doing much better than the 'ummah' countries, but I am scared we will turn into a bunch of senseless prudes who riot at the drop of a hat when I see some of the banned art and movies, etc.
King Posted June 8, 2007 Posted June 8, 2007 Go easy on the religious topics folks. We have said before to show some restrain on these things. This definitely is not the place to discuss pros and cons of a particular religion.
kumble_rocks Posted June 8, 2007 Author Posted June 8, 2007 Go easy on the religious topics folks. We have said before to show some restrain on these things. This definitely is not the place to discuss pros and cons of a particular religion. The topic is about blasphemy laws. Surely , if you start a thread condemning Sati or some weird Hindu customs , most posters will join in the unanimous condemnation of such barbaric acts . Also, I have posted a particular incident which happened in Pakistan recently. Imagine , the plight of minorities there. Also, notice, that I have spoken out only against certain aspects of this draconian Sharia , not against Mo or Islam as a whole package.
King Posted June 8, 2007 Posted June 8, 2007 I don't know what is technically right or wrong KR but the last time around we agreed we don't want to make "General Discussions" a place for religious discussions. A one off political discussion is ok but please desist from bringing up discussions about religious flavour. Read every response to your topic and you will grasp what I'm saying.
kumble_rocks Posted June 8, 2007 Author Posted June 8, 2007 I don't know what is technically right or wrong KR but the last time around we agreed we don't want to make "General Discussions" a place for religious discussions. A one off political discussion is ok but please desist from bringing up discussions about religious flavour. Read every response to your topic and you will grasp what I'm saying. Ravi, my sincere suggestions is, let this kind of topic which talks only about certain bad aspects of any religion be allowed for discussion. What we should not allow in this forum is name calling of the great Prophet or bad mouthing the entire religion of Islam or any other faith. I am sure that you will also agree that their are many folks in muslim faith who are moderate and these discussions will actually open their eyes. Case in point , some of the bangladeshi posters were not aware of blasphemy laws and surely a real life incident like this will open their eyes. If you read my posts right from the nascent of this msg board , I have only tried to speak out the truth. Heck , I got so much flak from hindu posters because I refuse to absolve Hindus of their crimes during the Mughal empire and called out on the Rajputs. Again , keep in mind these are real life incidents which cannot be refuted.Anyway ,please consider this as a request and I will abide by whatever you guys decide.
Guest dada_rocks Posted June 8, 2007 Posted June 8, 2007 I know atleast 15 muslim folks of varied age who are both practicing ( still read Koran everyday/peforms Namaz) who are very 'normal' by non-muslim standards too. Only diff between the normal practicing ones and the normal unpracticing one is alcohol, food (pork) and sex(outside marriage) practices. Re the topic : Yeah, this is pretty insane. I'd like to see some of those Bangladeshi friends of ours justify this kind of sh!t in the Koran. Reading and practicing are different things.. Practicing means you act on what is being prescribed in those readings.
Gaurav Posted June 9, 2007 Posted June 9, 2007 What we should not allow in this forum is name calling of the great Prophet Jeez! Jeez KR did you just lower the standard of greatness? :hysterical:
kumble_rocks Posted June 9, 2007 Author Posted June 9, 2007 Jeez! Jeez KR did you just lower the standard of greatness? :hysterical: Jesus, Prophet , Buddha etc were are all great because of the sheer number of followers that they were able to attract into their fold.:regular_smile:
Anakin Posted June 9, 2007 Posted June 9, 2007 Jesus' date=' Prophet , Buddha etc were are all great because of the sheer number of followers that they were able to attract into their fold.:regular_smile:[/quote']:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:
kumble_rocks Posted June 9, 2007 Author Posted June 9, 2007 :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: And your point is ....
kumble_rocks Posted June 9, 2007 Author Posted June 9, 2007 That would be me and Anakin if IIRC ... and we also gave you reasons for that. What you were doing though is trying to pick out a single instance of good work by people like Humayun , Sher shah and Akbar and giving them a clean chit. Thats like saying Hitler was a Normal man because he had public transport operating running smoothly during his times . It was not meant for you Bheem. I actually don't mind debating you because I think you are a quality poster with tremendous knowledge and you don't indulge in petty personal abuses unlike some other posters here. Let's continue on the Humayan , Akbar debate later . Please comment on the OP if you can .
Anakin Posted June 9, 2007 Posted June 9, 2007 And your point is ....That you have very strong logic. The bigger the crowd the better the prophet. Who can argue with that
Anakin Posted June 9, 2007 Posted June 9, 2007 And once again, nobody absolved the rajputs, but of course I'm too stupid to realize that every soldier and Hitler held the exact (more on the soldiers side may be) responsibility for the holocaust. At least the difference is I didn't use jesus about 100 times and get pissed when some brilliant mind does the same thing as some idiot ie mixing topics.
Anakin Posted June 9, 2007 Posted June 9, 2007 Just another general point, I've rarely even noticed you or had you in mind when replying before those jesus posts. So get a hold on reality. Anyways I'm outta here, no point in posting when every post seems to attack someone sensitive.
CC1981 Posted June 9, 2007 Posted June 9, 2007 And once again, nobody absolved the rajputs, but of course I'm too stupid to realize that every soldier and Hitler held the exact (more on the soldiers side may be) responsibility for the holocaust.?!?!?? I don't get what you or Bheem are tryin to say- the Rajputs wernt exactly under tremendous pressure of annihilation from Babur,Humayun, Akbar etc. Some of the Rajputs were ALLIED to the Mughal empire. Not vassals, not coerced but very much eager allies. As such, it makes them equally culpable. You forget that the Rajputs had no designs on Delhi/Indraprastha. They were only interested in being the head-honcho in Rajputana. So when Mughals, Tughlags etc. were pitting Rajputs against each other, the Rajputs gladly took up the mughal/turkish offers to help them against each other.
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