Sachin Tendulkar or Vivian Richards?

[pensionplan]

We can never say how he felt in reality' date=' unless he comes out and gives ball-by-ball account. I was saying from my experience, personally I would feel more relaxed when faced with such nothing-to-lose situation, and would get anxious only when within visible distance of the result.[/quote'] Exactly. Anyone who watched that Mohali 73* could make out VVS that day looked like he exactly knew what he was doing cool as a cucumber and played genuine cricket shots at almost run a ball while selectively shielding Ishant when he could see the finish line. It is one of the most calculated run chases and finishes as it turned out to be in the end when one analyzes it easily making it another of the great Test knocks in Indian Test cricket history. It is silly to even debate if it is a pressure situation or if it qualifes as one. It sure was once it got down to around 175 odd for 8 and the partnership with Ishant flourishing. The way VVS managed the run chase while getting the last 40-45 runs and getting India to the finish line surely has to be to be one of the best moments ever in Indian cricket which again helped us maintain that No.1 ranking where a loss there could have had an impact on the No.1 ranking. That is very true though given the quality of attack and team felling like nine pins around him and to score 167 out of 250 odd qualifies as a brilliant knock for just the sheer nature of extraordinary shot making.

[akshayxyz]

I am not generally as much interested in batting averages as much I am interested in players dominating and thumping the opposition. The "peak prowess" ( ability to perform at the best from) of players is my criteria for evaluation, provided the players are reltively consistant throughout their career and have better than 45 average. For me it is Viv - Viv was ranked world no 1 batsman for nine calender years. Sachin - 4 years. When Viv got into peak form, it was a nightmare series for bowlers, he scored 829 in one series at the peak of his prowess. In 1976, Richards scored 1710 runs at the average of 90! Viv's ability to peak was phenomenal and would score at a rapid pace ( when compared to other good batsmen of his time). His only weakness perhaps was that he was so arrogant a batsman that he would sometimes loose his wicket to relatively weaker bowlers and did not put such a big price on his wicket, otherwise we do not know what he would have achieved. Perhaps he could afford to play like that, given the strength of WI bowling. Viv was also at his best in WSC, a very competitive tour. Sachin was consistant, but can't remember him taking an entire test series by storm and demolishing the opposition completely, like scoring 600 or 700 runs one or more times in test series. The peak form of Sachin never came close to that of Viv's peak in test matches.

This is easiest to answer. For the nth time, have a look at the number of 4/5 match series he has played - compare it to the ones who have done that 500+ runs /series thing. A good example is, last year against Aussies - SRT scored 430 odd runs in 2 match series, with that kind of form - you can imagine what would have happened in additional 3 matches. And between the two greats in this post - SRT averages significantly higher than Viv in 4th and 5th match of the series. Even though he did not play as many (14 matches vs 39) 4-5 match series. Also, peak vs peak comparison - SRT has twice averaged 90+ in a calendar year (8 and 10 matches), and 67 and 78 in 2009 and 2010 respectively. And there are few more instances of 65+ averages in a calendar year. Whereas, Viv - once he got past 90 (11 matches), and once 100+ ( 2 matches), once 68 (10 matches) only twice 60+ ( 3 and 4 matches only)

[pensionplan]

Sachin is great but for test matches i would rate LAXMAN and DRAVID higher than him...

And you will not be alone in that line of thought. One could go no wrong while rating RD or VVS over SRT as their personal choice for Tests given what they have done throughout their brilliant careers in varying conditions and match situations.

[carnish]

96 runs. Brilliant but how many wickets did Laxman take while "rising to the ocassion to help India level the series"? because looking at the score card at the end of Laxman's dismissal' date=' match pretty much hung in the balance.[/quote'] This..

[carnish]

and how many times has vvs done this ? considering that you are talking as though he does it time and again.

as far as i can remember without checking the stats... MOHALI 2010 vs AUS Durban 2011 vs SAF Colombo 2010 vs SRL Kolkata 2001 vs AUS and numerous time he rescued india from a loss the 1st and 2nd test against new zealand recently comes to mind when both times he paired up with bhajji to save india from an embarrasment

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Sarkar]

as far as i can remember without checking the stats... MOHALI 2010 vs AUS Durban 2011 vs SAF Colombo 2010 vs SRL Kolkata 2001 vs AUS and numerous time he rescued india from a loss the 1st and 2nd test against new zealand recently comes to mind when both times he paired up with bhajji to save india from an embarrasment

Bacha u been following cricket since last 10 years i cannot talk to some one like u :hysterical:

[ganeshran]

[carnish]

look at the average in 4th innings.... vvs 100 sachin 72... dat speaks it all for the man in crisis for india...:hatsoff:

[Andrew Peter]

as far as i can remember without checking the stats... MOHALI 2010 vs AUS Durban 2011 vs SAF Colombo 2010 vs SRL Kolkata 2001 vs AUS and numerous time he rescued india from a loss the 1st and 2nd test against new zealand recently comes to mind when both times he paired up with bhajji to save india from an embarrasment

But I hope you do know that Sachin is our 2nd best Batsman after laxman in the 4th Innings while chasing and the best Batsman while setting up the game in the first innings .

[vamos_rafa]

look at the average in 4th innings.... vvs 100 sachin 72... dat speaks it all for the man in crisis for india...:hatsoff:

:facepalm:

[carnish]

Bacha u been following cricket since last 10 years i cannot talk to some one like u :hysterical:

i have been watching cricket since 1996 not the last 10 years..

[vamos_rafa]

i have been watching cricket since 1996 not the last 10 years..

I think you were 6 years old in 1996.

[carnish]

so the reason why you have slipped in Mohali and Durban while talking about 100's in winning causes is what ?

when did i talk about 100's... i was talking about match winning knocks... do you mean 70s and 80s cannot be match winning innings???

[carnish]

I think you were 6 years old in 1996.

:omg: how did ya guess??

[Cricket Tragic]

And how often have the others done it? :hmmm: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;innings_number=4;orderby=runs;result=1;team=6;template=results;type=batting Dravid hasn't made a 4th innings 50 in 5 years now. This has been the time when we have chased some of our highest totals in test cricket. No issues with having Laxman at number 1 in such situations because he deserves it but not Dravid. To group them together is unfair on Laxman. Dravid hasn't actually played a great 4th innings knock in his career - Kandy and Ad were good rather than great knocks. Check out the scorecards and see the contributions... http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=1701070&postcount=3 Before the WI series this year, he hadn't made a hundred outside India (ex Bang) since 2006. I wonder how many people are even aware of these numbers. You can bet that Tendulkar would get massive attention if he had the same numbers.

[carnish]

But I hope you do know that Sachin is our 2nd best Batsman after laxman in the 4th Innings while chasing and the best Batsman while setting up the game in the first innings .

never denied that... i am a great fan of sachin.. check out my previous posts to confirm i just said that i would loose most hope of an indian win when both lax and RD get out in tests as before in the 90's most of india lost hope after sachin got out...doesnot mean everytime laxman and dravid get out india loses... sometimes others do stand up...

[vamos_rafa]

And how often have the others done it? :hmmm: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;innings_number=4;orderby=runs;result=1;team=6;template=results;type=batting Dravid hasn't made a 4th innings 50 in 5 years now. This has been the time when we have chased some of our highest totals in test cricket. No issues with having Laxman at number 1 in such situations because he deserves it but not Dravid. To group them together is unfair on Laxman. Dravid hasn't actually played a great 4th innings knock in his career - Kandy and Ad were good rather than great knocks. Check out the scorecards and see the contributions... http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=1701070&postcount=3 Before the WI series this year, he hadn't made a hundred outside India (ex Bang) since 2006. I wonder how many people are even aware of these numbers. You can bet that Tendulkar would get massive attention if he had the same numbers.

This is what I have been saying in so many other posts. The keyboard warriors have really started that rage agianst Sachin now, stating that Dravid played in tough condiotions in England and Sachin failed. What they don't realize is that Sachin has been scoring runs in the same tough conditions when Dravid was faltering. I have nothing against Dravid, but this Sachin bashing , when Dravid scores,is what I hate.

[vamos_rafa]

:omg: how did ya guess??

You yourself mentioned in some other post.:--D

[Andrew Peter]

The only decent 4th Innings knock that Dravid has played in his entire career has to be the unbeaten 70 Odd against Australia in Adelaide yet for some reason he still remains the Crisis Man for some folks . Dravid got out for 4 runs while chasing 387 where Tendulkar hit a Ton yet seems like this never happened at all . If Dravid had played a similar knock with Sachin getting out for 4 runs then this match would have been remembered till end of this world .