So, what was wrong with this pitch, Bhajji?

[Midfielder]

The stephen Hawkings of the world after critically analysing the game have come to this conclusion that let us blame Bhajji for this game. I think he was responsible for the tsunami in japan too.

[saneindian]

Wonder what the critics have to say of these performances from the best spinner in the world http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/390680.html England had 503 runs and 128 overs to win the match. On the day 5 track, with the leading spinner of the world in their team, the last pair batted for 18 overs!! Pity Swann couldn't do much! http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/352663.html England had scored 600 runs in the 1st innings. WI were 300 odd for 5, shouldn't the leading spinner have wrapped up the innings with so many runs to play? Instead they ended at 749 runs! http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/352664.html Eng had 66 overs to get WI out, had got them to 90/6 in 43 overs, yet the final wicket pair hung on. Again on a wearing 5th day track the lead spinner couldn't do much!! The english fans didn't go around town shouting how useless Swann was. In his last 2 series, the same leading spinner has taken 15 wickets@40 and 12 wickets@24. Compare that with Bhajji's last two series, 15 wickets@30 and 11 wickets@25. Yet all we hear is Swann is the best spinner in the world but Bhajji has lost his bite and should retire/be thrown out!

[The Outsider]

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=208616

Yeah, that's the Calcutta test I referred to in my post and in fact goes to show that I am willing to give him lavish praise on him when he pulls in performances like that - hardly something the hate mob would do. So, your point was?

[The Outsider]

It's like 'Jai explaining to Mausi in Sholay'.. 'Bas eik baar, Mausi..Bhajji gets support from other bowlers..India will bowl out all the teams..' Mausi: 'Haan Beta.. experienced bowler woh, leading spinner on a last day wicket woh, struggling to keep up with the rival bachcha spinner woh, magar uska koi dosh nahin..sab dosh on batsmen, bowlers, Dravid, Wasim Akram and what not..'

You forgot Mukund and Vijay. :winky:

[Midfielder]

Wonder what the critics have to say of these performances from the best spinner in the world http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/390680.html England had 503 runs and 128 overs to win the match. On the day 5 track, with the leading spinner of the world in their team, the last pair batted for 18 overs!! Pity Swann couldn't do much! http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/352663.html England had scored 600 runs in the 1st innings. WI were 300 odd for 5, shouldn't the leading spinner have wrapped up the innings with so many runs to play? Instead they ended at 749 runs! http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/352664.html Eng had 66 overs to get WI out, had got them to 90/6 in 43 overs, yet the final wicket pair hung on. Again on a wearing 5th day track the lead spinner couldn't do much!! The english fans didn't go around town shouting how useless Swann was. In his last 2 series, the same leading spinner has taken 15 wickets@40 and 12 wickets@24. Compare that with Bhajji's last two series, 15 wickets@30 and 11 wickets@25. Yet all we hear is Swann is the best spinner in the world but Bhajji has lost his bite and should retire/be thrown out!

+1

[Midfielder]

You forgot Mukund and Vijay. :winky:

Were they not the reason India was not 3-0?

[King Tendulkar]

Wonder what the critics have to say of these performances from the best spinner in the world http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/390680.html England had 503 runs and 128 overs to win the match. On the day 5 track, with the leading spinner of the world in their team, the last pair batted for 18 overs!! Pity Swann couldn't do much! http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/352663.html England had scored 600 runs in the 1st innings. WI were 300 odd for 5, shouldn't the leading spinner have wrapped up the innings with so many runs to play? Instead they ended at 749 runs! http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/352664.html Eng had 66 overs to get WI out, had got them to 90/6 in 43 overs, yet the final wicket pair hung on. Again on a wearing 5th day track the lead spinner couldn't do much!! The english fans didn't go around town shouting how useless Swann was. In his last 2 series, the same leading spinner has taken 15 wickets@40 and 12 wickets@24. Compare that with Bhajji's last two series, 15 wickets@30 and 11 wickets@25. Yet all we hear is Swann is the best spinner in the world but Bhajji has lost his bite and should retire/be thrown out!

Post of the week, will the mob see sense:pray: But no Day 5 wicket spinner must take ALL the wickets, thats the rule laid down by our resident experts. O well Swann has to retire with Bhaji now. Looks like Harris is best spinner in world now

[The Outsider]

Yeah, putting up scorecards from more than 2 years back certainly shows a lot - and who exactly considered Swann the best spinner in the world 2.5 years back? Desperation!

[saneindian]

So easy to ignore the stats from the last two series, eh? But hey you will only read the part you want to.

[asterix]

Were they not the reason India was not 3-0?

Yes.. Not only those two but bouncy pitches, non bouncy pitches..stumps at the center line of the pitch etc. etc..

[The Outsider]

In fact, Swann was ranked 30 at the time from which those scorecards are taken - leading spinner! :hysterical: http://www.relianceiccrankings.com/playerdisplay/test/bowling/?id=2269&graph=ranking

[BERGKAMP]

The MOB VS The Groupie FANBOYS [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxya41aMXMA]YouTube - ‪Ye Maha Yudh Hai‬‏[/ame]

[saneindian]

Had written this in an earlier thread. Let me put this here too. http://indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=1540266&postcount=95 A quick look at the wickets he has got and the chances he has created in the last 12 tests he has played against major opposition 1. SA series in India Cape town test- no wickets in first innings, 4 top order wickets in the 2nd Durban test- In the 1st innings, did not bowl at the top order, took 4/10 all tail end wickets, Got Alviro Peterson and ABDV out in the 2nd innings Centurion test- Got Peterson out, Amal was dropped of his bowling by MSD early on in his innings 2. NZ series in India Nagpur test- Got Ryder out in the first innings, Mcintosh, Hopkins, Taylor, Ryder was dropped by Gauti Hyderabad test- Guptil dropped by Dhoni, Southee dropped by Gauti, Got Ryder, Vettori, Southee and Martin out. In the 2nd innings, Had Mccullum dropped by Pujara, got Williamson out Ahmedabad test- Got Taylor and bowled rubbish for rest of the innings 3. Aus Series in India Bangalore test- Got Katich, North and Clarke out, had Ponting dropped by Zaheer and North dropped by Dravid bfore finally getting out, In the 2nd innings, took Katich and North's wickets. Mohali Test- Had Clarke and Watson's wickets. In the 2nd innings, Had Katich dropped by Dravid, North's stumping chance missed by MSD, got Hussey and North finally. 4.SL series in SL 1st test- Had Paranavitarana dropped by Gauti, But bowled rubbish 2nd test- Bowled quite badly. Was not fit enough to play and should not have played the test match. 5. SA series in India Nagpur test- Had Amla dropped by Vijay and MSD (twice), Got Kallis and Duminy Kolkata test- Had Amla dropped by VVS, got Kallis, Prince and Duminy out. In the 2nd innings, had Amla and Prince dropped by Vijay, Harris dropped by Badri, Morkel dropped by MSD, Got Prince, Peterson , Duminy out. Source- CI commentary for these tests Thats last 12 tests before the WI test match, 33 top order wickets (out of the 48 that he has taken) along with some 14-15 dropped/missed chances. Add them all together and what you have is not such a bad performance. Also looking at that list of chances dropped off his bowling, just imagine the difference it would have made to his numbers if even 50% of those chances had been held, some of them in his first spell (and when it's clearly documented that Bhajji is doubly dangerous once he takes an early wicket)! Another major reason why his numbers look so bad in the SL series in SL where he took 2/300+ runs in 2 test matches. IIRC he was half fit for that series (side strain) and was forced to play as we were missing Zak and Sree. Having said this though, Bhajji will be the first one to admit that he should have bowled better and attacked more in some of his spells. He has surprisingly stopped bowling the doosras completely but hasn't been able to add another variation.

[The Outsider]

^ That's a post straight out of the other side of the border who think Kaneria would have taken over the world if it were not for missed chances. :yay:

[saneindian]

^ That's a post straight out of the other side of the border who think Kaneria would have taken over the world if it were not for missed chances. :yay:

Whatever floats your boat. Wonder why you are silent on the numbers of the last two series for Swann and Bhajji, the more relevant 'recent' stats as you want and that too when Swann was indeed the leading spinner of the world!

[pensionplan]

^ That's a post straight out of the other side of the border who think Kaneria would have taken over the world if it were not for missed chances. :yay:

And not so speak of some cheap wickets he got in the process as well. On top of my head I can recollect this match when he got two wickets that should be taken out of his tally when he was tonked all over the park that too by Morkel and Tsotsobe . Despite the 7 wickets in the innings he bowled like a shithead for most of that innings at Capetown that cost India valuable time and victory for unable to bowl out the lower order. -- 101.1 Harbhajan Singh to Morkel, no run, turns from outside leg, nudged to the off side 101.2 Harbhajan Singh to Morkel, FOUR, clears the front foot and smashes this flighted delivery that lands outside leg to the square-leg boundary. 101.3 Harbhajan Singh to Morkel, OUT, Holes out to long-on. He went for another big hit but finds Sreesanth at long-on. No 6 for Harbhajan M Morkel c Sreesanth b Harbhajan Singh 28 (52m 45b 4x4 0x6) SR: 62.22 101.4 Harbhajan Singh to Tsotsobe, FOUR, Whoa! Lonwabo Tsotsobe has charged down the track and hammered this to the straight boundary! 101.5 Harbhajan Singh to Tsotsobe, FOUR, And again. This time to the midwicket boundary. He cleared the front foot and biffs this over the on-side field. Smith stands and applauds with a smile 101.6 Harbhajan Singh to Tsotsobe, OUT, SA all out 341. Jacques Kallis not out 109! Tsotsobe rushed down the track and was caught by Sehwag at long-on. LL Tsotsobe c Sehwag b Harbhajan Singh 8 (4m 3b 2x4 0x6) SR: 266.66

[The Outsider]

Whatever floats your boat. Wonder why you are silent on the numbers of the last two series for Swann and Bhajji, the more relevant 'recent' stats as you want and that too when Swann was indeed the leading spinner of the world!

Because they are irrelevant to the point you are trying to make and in fact go to show how Swann is massively better than Bhajji if you want a refutation : 1. Swann did better against Sri Lanka on English pitches than Bhajji did against West Indies. You can take your pick as to who plays spin better. A few reference points can be how Sri Lanka b!tch slapped Bhajji last year and how Ajmal destroyed West Indies a month back. :(( 2. Look up how Swann did in South Africa and how Bhajji did in Australia on their last visits there. You'll again have a sad. :((

[saneindian]

Because they are irrelevant to the point you are trying to make and in fact go to show how Swann is massively better than Bhajji if you want a refutation : 1. Swann did better against Sri Lanka on English pitches than Bhajji did against West Indies. You can take your pick as to who plays spin better. A few reference points can be how Sri Lanka b!tch slapped Bhajji last year and how Ajmal destroyed West Indies a month back. :(( 2. Look up how Swann did in South Africa and how Bhajji did in Australia on their last visits there. You'll again have a sad. :((

Look I don't want to get drawn in this Swann vs Bhajji comparison. That Swann clearly is a better bowler at the moment and Bhajji has been struggling a little with his bowling, there is no denying this fact. I am using Swann's number to show you how he too has struggled at times and why the criticism that Bhajji is facing is a little OTT. And the reason for showing those dropped chances was to demonstrate how such things do effect a player especially when he is down on confidence. I am all for constructive criticism but sadly barring a few posts, all that you read about is people using all sorts of abuses for someone who has done so well for India. That is quite irritating. Criticise as much as you want but to call Indian player names is just not on.

[The Outsider]

Look I don't want to get drawn in this Swann vs Bhajji comparison. That Swann clearly is a better bowler at the moment and Bhajji has been struggling a little with his bowling, there is no denying this fact. I am using Swann's number to show you how he too has struggled at times and why the criticism that Bhajji is facing is a little OTT. And the reason for showing those dropped chances was to demonstrate how such things do effect a player especially when he is down on confidence. I am all for constructive criticism but sadly barring a few posts, all that you read about is people using all sorts of abuses for someone who has done so well for India. That is quite irritating. Criticise as much as you want but to call Indian player names is just not on.

How is the Harbhajan criticism over the top - I can't speak for others but I can put my point forth. The guy has been averaging 35+ with a strike rate of 75 for a sustained period of 5-6 years. If you want a batting equivalent it would be someone averaging 40- over a similar period. Now tell me can an Indian batsman play, survive, and be praised for that kind of a performance. Sure, he has had his good and very good performances in the time being, but they've been few and far between and the average reflects it. If you don't want to go by stats you just have to see his bowling. The number of times he starts firing darts on leg stump is simply staggering for a top level bowler. Even in his good spells like Cape Town and in the last test in West Indies he was simply unable to sustain the momentum after getting initial wickets. When a top bowler is in form, he makes it count. Getting a 4-5 wicket haul after bowling 40-50 overs is not always going to help - not often will the team have the luxury of having 120-130 overs to bowl the opposition out. The common refrain is where are the alternatives. Two things : 1. Even if Harbhajan does play, does not mean his poor and mediocre performances cannot be criticized even if there are no alternatives. 2. Which alternative has been given a sufficiently long period and consistent run to prove himself. I am not saying Ojha, Mishra, or Ashwin are going to become world beaters, but really, if the permanent fixture is a 35+ averaging and 75+ striking bowler are they not worth a punt? When Bhajji got b!tch slapped in Sri Lanka last year, Ojha helped us draw level on the series. Was he given any run worth mention after that and performing as good if not better than Harbhajan at home subsequently. He doesn't even make the squad now. Mishra had a superb ODI series followed by an ordinary test match and finds himself out of the side, but Harbhajan keeps darting away with his pathetic strike rates.

[Fontaine]

The simple fact is that if ANY of our bowlers had an average of 35+ and a pathetic strike rate of 75+ then they would be roundly criticized also. We expect Ishant to improve, Sree to be more consistent, Mithun, Mishra, Ojha etc etc, whever these bowlers don't do well and struggle to take wickets or even bowl good lines then they are criticized. But somehow when Bhajji is criticized well then you're just being a hater?! Everyone criticizes Sharma/Sreesanth when they start bowling wayward leg side garbage, yet in the first two test Bhajji couldn't get this radar right at all and bowled more trash going down harmlessly on the leg side than I've seen in a long long time. So yeah he pretty much deserves criticism for his performance in the first two tests just like he also deserves credit for bowling much better in the third.