Vedanta and Nalanda

[Guest dada_rocks]

People who do stuff like this are the true 'defenders of Indian heritage':

How about sticking to the topic.. Nobody said they are not true defenders.. Point is those who are being accused by people like u are not only talking about it but have dared to revive the university.. To any sane honest person it's way better than shove it under the carpet approach of psec brigade in last 60 years.. Incidentally it never crossed the mind of psec and sthg tells me it didnt becasue they might have had to accept the wrong done in past otherwise why nalanda; university cud have come up at any other piece of land .. I won't embarass u further I guess, continue..

[Guest dada_rocks]

Actually I couldnt even understand your post after the first sentence - lol :hysterical:

I thought so:giggle:.. Some people are not fact-friendly

[gorah_pindu]

Haha, seriously man: unreletaes heck free-renunciation similes free thinking! Sounds like latin kinda.

[Guest dada_rocks]

I though u stopped after first line but u see u came all the way to PS..:giggle: unrelated use of similes (meaning boraching arab bla bla bla crap).. And the fact part which unequivcally mentions no psec no laluu could muster enough cajones to take this project quite ironocially much-maligned NDa has done that.. I guess it was inconvenient truth hence may be not registered . . Don't worry u are not the first one people often do this when their arcane theories meet the bare facts and find they have been just BSing....:hysterical:

[CC1981]

I thought so:giggle:.. Some people are not fact-friendly

Says the one who doesnt know the difference between facts & propaganda, mr 'i love fox news'.:hysterical: :hysterical:

[CC1981]

And the fact part which unequivcally mentions no psec no laluu could muster enough cajones to take this project quite ironocially much-maligned NDa has done that..

Thats coz p-secs have nothing to do with secular folks like us...:haha:

[gorah_pindu]

Okay ill stop teasing ya, and do a proper reply:

Well said.. and travesty is u are not allowed to even murmur about those barbabrians who did that ..

The problem I had with this statement was: 1). Its exactly what Muslim and Christian extreamists say about their religion too lol. They think they are constantly opressed lol. 2). Ive never heard a single person deny that Nalanda was destroyed by Muslim fanatics in my life - so you are making a humdrum out of nothing. In my experience people who go around ranting about how they are oppressed are usually not all that worse off than anyone else - they just lack the perspective to see that the rest of the world has problems too. Since im a real secularist (not a psuedo one like the Congress bastards, or a NDA type), I cant stand either the conservative NDA, or the conservative UPA - they both piss me off pretty much equally. The reason the NDA pisses me off is that they are more similar to Arabs or Bible-Belt Americans, than the ancient Indians they claim to admire - if they were in power, then no Indian video games, or good movies, or good comic books would ever be made - because every fat grey haired babu would say 'its too violent', 'too much exposure of skin', 'cant use Rakshas, because they are holy', etc - following their Victorian/Arab ideas of culture. The reason that UPA pisses me off is that they are pretty much the same.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Okay ill stop teasing ya, and do a proper reply: The problem I had with this statement was: 1). Its exactly what Muslim and Christian extreamists say about their religion too lol. They think they are constantly opressed lol. 2). Ive never heard a single person deny that Nalanda was destroyed by Muslim fanatics in my life - so you are making a humdrum out of nothing. In my experience people who go around ranting about how they are oppressed are usually not all that worse off than anyone else - they just lack the perspective to see that the rest of the world has problems too. Since im a real secularist (not a psuedo one like the Congress bastards, or a NDA type), I cant stand either the conservative NDA, or the conservative UPA - they both piss me off pretty much equally. The reason the NDA pisses me off is that they are more similar to Arabs or Bible-Belt Americans, than the ancient Indians they claim to admire - if they were in power, then no Indian video games, or good movies, or good comic books would ever be made - because every fat grey haired babu would say 'its too violent', 'too much exposure of skin', 'cant use Rakshas, because they are holy', etc - following their Victorian/Arab ideas of culture. The reason that UPA pisses me off is that they are pretty much the same.

constat opression where from thsi flight of imagination came.. Again flight of imagaiion in claimign that i suggested people deny this event. Heck if they could they might have denied but tsadly they can't but psecs likes u would get all awry when soemone likes ot talk abou it.. I am neiter NDA nor UPA means basicaly I live in my own insignificant world smug over my ideals whihc is nto goign to effect even a single soul's life.. And again as usual u are wrong with ur diatribes claiming if NDA were in power world would come to stand-still . Quite contraray to ur imagination, they were in power for 6 years and nothing stopped working in fact it started running at war-footing and the latest example of triggering Naland University reconstrcution is yet another example to that effect. Rest of the stuff in ur post Arab Gora yada yada can be ascribed to the fertile imgination at work. Yes even i don't agree on everythign NDA does but it's my belief these guys mean business and do things with passion and that's what gives them strength to take near impossible and hitherto untouched projects..

[gorah_pindu]

No point going on about how I call the NDA Arab-minded psuedo Hindus when you call everyone who dosent agree with you a psec lol.

Yes even i don't agree on everythign NDA does but it's my belief these guys mean business and do things with passion and that's what gives them strength to take near impossible and hitherto untouched projects..

It isnt very hard to top Laloo ya know :) Ive yet to see any real distinction between NDA and UPA - Singh has done more in office than most prime ministers.

[King]

Good to see history mix with the current generation. Looks a pretty impressive project. Here's hoping the Nalanda university will see it's past glory again.

[gorah_pindu]

Yeh, we should revive all the old learning centres - build a new Taxila in Punjab or something too.

[gorah_pindu]

Im a mod on a site with 500,000 members from across South Asia, and have been for 4 years (specifically the political section) - ive heard everything, from Canadian Sikhs who call Hindus an inferior race, to dalits who believe white people were created by aliens - in all that time, ive not heard anyone deny what happened to Nalanda - I get the impression that a few of the more hardcore wingnuts might have if given the chance, but they are a vast minority. So you will understand if I choose to trust my own experience on this matter.

You mistake "Learning from History" to be "Whingning"

Back when I used to believe in Hindutva, I used to see Muslims and Christians as a monotheistic plague that destroys native culture and replaces it with an inescapable and exploitative dogma. Experience tought me that things are never as simple as nationalists would like to believe - I realised that the threat to Indian culture comes more from Hindu, Muslim, Sikh and Christian conservatives, than from high birth rates or high rates of religious conversion, that in practice, dont even dent Hinduism or Buddhism - both of which are growing in their own right. I realised that the best way of preserving a culture is to make it popular in a globalised world - so that everyone knows what a 'Kshatriya' is, just like they know what a 'Samurai' is. And I realised that the entertainment and art that would do this is hindered by the same breed of prudish Da Vinci Code banning, Shivaji Biography banning, Jo Bo So Nihal banning, Satanic Verses banning fagots. Learning well researched history by real scholars who used real scientific method, shattered my petty internet-researched misconceptions about the past - but didnt make me love India and dharmic culture any less. Now, if you dont mind - I never wanted to have a political debate - I have been trying to avoid them infact - this thread was meant to be a celebration of Indian civilization's re-emergance - until someone decided to drop nationalism into yet another topic. Dunno about you, but id like to talk about these projects, rather than post a ten page long arguement.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Denying and gagging the talk on certain issues is not the same thing. I am sure it's not that complex an idea to conceive. As they say opinions are like ar$holes everyone has got one. But naked facts doesn't need drawing-room activists (yes that's what u are if u are not in consonance with any of the political stream in india. Folks like these are usually found on picninc trip on election day. ) Yes politics sometimes gets sickening but I wud still give a better mark to a laloo-supporter who shouts at top of his lungs than to drawing-room activists whose smugness only helps his own conscience and adds zilch to the system. Fact remains (1) NDA ruled in centre for 6 years if anything it was speedy development nothing stopped to the utter chagrin of doomsday preachers. (2) Despite all the allegations of drawing-room activists, it's the purportedly maligned ones who took on the revival job. No drawing-room activists no psecs could change a thing in 60 years. So little respect is called for as opposed to the BS which is being spewed here by certain quarters.

[gorah_pindu]

The idea of learning from the past is to not commit the same mistakes over and over.

Yes - and if you talk to any UPA, NDA or Commie, they will tell you thats exactly what they are doing - i.e. every idealist believes they are building a better future by learning the mistakes of the past. Now, can we discuss the universities?

30 new varsities, college in each dist planned: PM The government of India plans to set up 30 new universities and is mulling a college in each of the country's 340 districts to improve the quality of education and add to the pool of skilled workforce, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said here today."The work on the modalities for setting these up has begun and the Ministry of Human resource Development, the UGC and the Planning Commission are working to operationalise this in next 2-3 months. This expansion is going to be a landmark in expanding access to high quality education across the country. These Universities, in my view, should focus on achieving international standards of excellence and should be rated among the top institutions in the world. They should have the best faculty, excellent physical resources, a wide range of disciplines, and most importantly, a diverse student body. They should become the launching pads for our entry into the knowledge economy," Dr Singh said. Addressing the gathering on the occasion of the 150th anniversary of the University of Mumbai, Dr Singh added that the government was committed to setting up 6,000 model schools across the country. The one high-quality school in every block of the country will be benchmarked as centres of excellence, according to the Prime Minister. Dr Singh noted that the National Knowledge Commission appointed by the government has recommended a massive expansion of higher education across India. "The Commission believes that by 2015, India should attain a gross enrolment ratio of at least 15 per cent if we are to be in line with most modern societies," Dr Singh said. The Prime Minister warned that less than half the students who pass through school go in for a college education in India. He further noted that two-third of India's universities and 90 per cent of the colleges are below average quality. “We are at a point when the dynamics of our population growth can catapult us into a prolonged cycle of rapid economic growth,'' said Singh. “The reality at the moment is that around 10 per cent of the relevant age-group is enrolled in any institute of higher education as compared to 40-50 per cent in most developed economies. In almost half the districts in the country, higher education enrolments are abysmally low and most importantly, there is a nagging fear that university curricula are not synchronised with employment needs," Dr Singh said. Dr Singh noted that the Mumbai varsity which began as the University of Bombay has given scores of eminent scholars, scientists, industrialists, administrators and professionals in all walks of life. “No wonder it is rated among the top-500 universities in the world,” Dr Singh observed. Dwelling on the government's plans to improve higher education Dr Singh noted that his administration has sanctioned the setting up of six Indian Institutes of Science in addition to the one already in existence. The Prime Minister acknowledged that educational institutions across the country were not upto the mark. The PM also called for universities to tap into the large pool of Indian origin teaching manpower spread across the world’s universities. “I do believe our universities need and deserve better leadership and more transparent, efficient and liberal governance systems. I also believe that a university should be a community imbued by the values of liberalism, pluralism, secularism, social justice and the pursuit of excellence,” Dr Singh said.

[gorah_pindu]

Yeh - that would be nice, if its not too much trouble. After four years of political arguments, I would rather avoid it altogether.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Never mind my outburst had sthg to do with this piece of crap coming to my attention yesterday. Asgar Ali Engineer quote on Tipu Sultan's:

“"No, Tipu was not a religious fanatic. He was a ruler, first and last. And whatever he did, he did to consolidate his rule. If he did humiliate and carry out some atrocities against the Nairs in Kerala, he did it to crush the Nair rebellion that had gained strength as the community was bitterly opposed to Tipu establishing his rule in its territory. He did forcibly convert hundreds of Nairs and other Hindus in Kerala to Islam. But he did this to punish them for rebelling against his supremacy - and changing their religion was the most severe punishment he could inflict on the rebels." Needless to say he is one of the psec stalwart. Little light on what actually Tipu's Sword did. QUOTE “excerpts from Tipu's letters as researched by the distinguished Kerala historian K. M. Panicker, which he reviewed in the Bhasha Poshini magazine, August 1923: 1. Letter dated March 22, 1788, to Abdul Kadir: "Over 12,000 Hindus were honoured with Islam. There were many Namboodri Brahmins among them. This achievement should be widely publicised among the Hindus. Then the local Hindus should be brought before you and converted to Islam. No Namboodri Brahmin should be spared. " 2. Letter dated December 14, 1788, to his army chief in Calicut: " I am sending two of my followers with Mir Hussain Ali. With their assistance, you should capture and kill all Hindus. Those below 20 may be kept in prison and 5000 from the rest should be killed from the tree-tops. These are my orders." 3. Letter dated January 18, 1790, to Syed Abdul Dulai: " ...almost all Hindus in Calicut are converted to Islam. I consider this as Jehad." Travesty is if u talk about it u are extremist.

[Dhondy]

I thought that was a pretty impressive post from GP, actually. Made for excellent reading. If he's really learnt from his experiences on the net, he is a wise man.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Advancing discussion on Nalanda University .. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2137491.cms

[Guest dada_rocks]

Yes - and if you talk to any UPA, NDA or Commie, they will tell you thats exactly what they are doing - i.e. every idealist believes they are building a better future by learning the mistakes of the past. Now, can we discuss the universities? ************ NDA doesn't only tell rather shows it by action too as the reconstruction of University in question underlines. This idea never caught anyone's attention, so once again little respect please.

[CC1981]

The idea of learning from the past is to not commit the same mistakes over and over.

Something that you and dada and the rest of the fundie hindu saffron brigade doesnt realize/understand. You have learnt nothing from history, hence your behaviour is filled with racist hatred towards muslims. You want to boot em out of India/have Kashmiris prove their loyalties ( its interesting to note that everytime there was indo-pak war, including kargil, it was always some muslim kashmiri shepherds who infomed the Indian military of the developments- i dont remember a SINGLE Kannadiga ratting-out Veerappan when he was running around in the forests of Karnatak/TN. If that is your basis of questioning the loyalty of Kashmiris, you should question the loyalty of Kannadigas first!) etc etc... the PRECISELY SAME sort of behaviour is seen in the 'mullah brigade' and that is why you, D_R and all have not only not learnt from history, you continue to perpetuate historical injustices.