If Sir Donald Bradman was born an Indian

[zen]

Link for those interested, Bradman once scored a 100 in just 3 overs (8 balls per over at that time)

[Guest BossBhai]

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[zen]

ofcourse .... why let facts spoil a hunky dory story ehhh? And this proves what ? PS : any comments about the video I posted earlier that contained "dynamite" batting ?

Facts? The link is meant to admire a good performance unless you think it is easy to score a100 that quickly I liked the clip and wanted to see the full video but the 30 pounds stopped me .... May be I ll spend when I m in the mood. I do watch old films including from directors like Kurosawa so I judge those films based on the technology available then and not today's avatar's. Same goes for cricket :winky:

[Guest BossBhai]

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[zen]

yeah those nasty things ... for example the bulldust written about reflexes by that poster JBMAC is put in proper context ruthlessly by that clip ... i.e a whole array of trundlers bowling absolute friendly stuff. from a purely cricketing point ... What did you like in that clip ? How is the technology coming in your way ?

so can I assume that you paid 30 pounds for that video .... if not, then it would be like reviewing a movie based on the preview :P from the cricketing point of view, based on not seeing the clip in detail and for a handful of seconds, I thought these guys bowl better than PK, VK and Mithun of this world Technology is affecting how those clips are made and thus what we see wrt to today. Also I wouldn't go to see a car racing video from 1930s/40s expecting to see the cars racing and shot the way they do now gPQ369O17a8 Based on the above clip, are we to imply that those racing then weren't as good potentially as today's racers? And that even a regular driver from today would be better?

[Guest BossBhai]

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[zen]

Nope. Not worth the money. And how is it reviewing a movie based on the preview ? Are you saying that there exists footage of 90mph fast bowlers and we can see evidence of Bradmans reflexes as that poster is claiming ? Or maybe you have a different definition of "reflexes" which convenently changes based on the year ? Feel free to provide a sound cricketing explanation to back this up. and BTW SRT does not get to face them. You are conveniently ignoring atleast about 2 dozen fine bowlers that SRT has had to face over the yrs. How ? Are you saying that if we do video taping of current cricketers with that same camera they will appear just as crappy and slow ? If so can you tell me the technical reason why this would happen ? It is pretty easy to find out ... because we can certainly build the sort of cars that are seen in that video and put a Nascar driver and find out. Cricket is a completely different thing though.

I have seen SRT play a gem of a knock in ODIs batting at #4 against Eng, he showed excellent reflexes and agility to maneuver the trundlers .... since the bowlers were not bowling at 90mph, is my rating flawed :hmmmm: Yes, we are to believe that SRT faced Wasims, Ambroses, McGraths and Donald all the time, including Ranjis So you think that if today's cricketers were shot with 1930s tech, they would still appear the same .... and you want proof to show otherwise! And the NASCAR driver driving a reconstructed car would show that he is better than the race driver of 1930s and if that NASCAR driver were born in 1930s, he would still have the skills to drive the NASCAR?! .... Talking abt the NASCAR driver, the driver could in fact struggle to compete with a 1930s driver if both were driving the same car, on the other hand if the 1930s racer had the opportunity to drive today's car, he would have been as good as today's driver .... If you don't believe, try driving a BMW M3 for a few months and go back to Ind to drive a Maruti 800. Ask someone driving a Maruti 800 to race with you there and see if you could do well. And also invite the Maruti 800 driver to USA and make him drive the M3 for some time and see if he can drive as good as you or not I am shocked to even think that someone could made the arguments like in the bolded parts seriously ....

[Guest BossBhai]

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[zen]

Yes its flawed because he has played better against Akhtar, Blee, Tait, Donald, Bond etc which is the higher standard for evaluating Reflexes. There is a vast difference. Where is the similar evidence for Bradman in that video ? But Bradman has played the likes of Larwood too .... so if you are merely looking to see reflex based on which quick bowler a batsman played, then why bother with this particular short clip (unless the claim is that a bowl bowled at 90mph would definately shown in a clip) :dontknow: Who said this ? I didnt. But why are you trying to avoid the question on who were the Equivalents of the Wasims, Ambroses, McGraths in Bradmans time ? Can we get a CLEAR answer with the names spelt out ? if he is not playing all those bowlers all the time then your point is moot. And if we are judging a batsman based on how they played against these then there are those who have been as good as (if not better) SRT against these Please tell me the technical reason ( frame rate/B&W/zoom/whatever ) why they would appear slower? the point is the quality not being the same today as to judge performances solely based on that .... I don't care what the outcome of this contest would be .... my point was that this question can actually be settled without indulging in fancifull imagination. The fact that nobody gives a damn about it tells the story pretty much. In cricket the only way to do a similar comparison would be to find out what the Modern greats can do against a roughly comparable quality of bowling that went around in the 1930s/40s. Here you are trying to pretend as though the Bowes and Bedsers are equal to the Donalds and Wasims and McGraths. not really

responses in bold to make it quick

[zen]

You tube clip vs opinion on wiki: 0X3j9Sp2keM&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL5FF93F7D1A0C8441 from wiki:

Early Years (1978?982) Kapil made his Test cricket debut in Faisalabad, Pakistan on 16 October 1978. Although his match figures were unimpressive, the numbers did not convey any measure of Kapil's contribution in the match. With his speed and bounce, he brought glee to the Indian players as the Pakistani batsmen were startled with bouncers that struck their helmets on more than one occasion.[7] Kapil also captured his maiden wicket of Sadiq Mohammad with his trademark outswinger.[8] He showcased his all-rounder talent when he scored India's fastest Test half-century off 33 balls and 2 sixes in each of the innings during the 3rd Test match at National Stadium, Karachi,[9] although India lost the match and the series 2?. In the ensuring series against a visiting West Indies team, he scored his maiden Test century (126) at Feroz Shah Kotla, Delhi in just 124 balls[10] and had a steady bowling performance (17 wickets at 33.00). Ominous signs of Kapil's liking for England showed up in the ensuring series, his first outside the sub-continent. Kapil picked up his first 5-wicket haul and all of England's wickets, although it came at a huge cost (48 overs and 146 runs conceded) as England scored a mammoth 633 and won the match comfortably.[11] Kapil finished the series with 16 wickets though his batting haul of 45 runs (Average: 7.5) was unimpressive. His debut in ODI Cricket happened in the earlier tour of Pakistan where his individual performance was ordinary and it stayed the same as both Kapil and India had a poor campaign at the 1979 Cricket World Cup. Kapil Dev established himself as India's premier fast bowler when he took two 5-wicket hauls and ended the home series against Australia with 28 wickets (Average: 22.32) and also 212 runs that included a half-century.[12] Kapil Dev gained fame in the 6-Test home series against Pakistan in the 1979?0 season when he led India to 2 victories against the visitors once with the bat (69) at Wankhede Stadium, Bombay (Now Mumbai)[13] and the second time with bat and ball (10-wicket haul in match 4/90 in the first innings and 7/56 in the second innings, 84 in 98 balls with his bat) at Chepauk, Madras (Now Chennai).[14] Kapil rates his all-round performance in this match as his best bowling effort in his career, and his second innings figure of 7/56 was his best to-date.[7] During the series, he also became the youngest Test player to achieve the all-round double of 100 Wickets and 1000 Runs and in 25 matches (although Ian Botham took just 21 matches to achieve the same feat) and finished the series with 32 wickets (Ave: 17.68) and 278 runs that included 2 fifties.[15] India's tour of Australia in 1980?1 had the looks of the familiar Indian series as India were 1? down and were defending a meagre 143 runs and Kapil Dev virtually ruled out with a groin injury. When Australia finished the fourth day at 18/3, Kapil willed himself to play the final day with pain-killing injections and removed the dangerous Australia middle order. Kapil won the match for India with the innings bowling performance of 16.4??8?, a bowling performance that figures in his five best bowling performance.[7] During the Australian tour, he scored his first fifty in ODIs against New Zealand at Brisbane. Somehow India's Test cricket sensation was unable to adjust to ODI cricket and had a career start of 278 runs (Average: 17.38) and 17 wickets after 16 ODI matches. A dismal New Zealand tour later,[16] Kapil Dev was ready for the 1981?2 home series against England where his five-wicket haul won the first test at Wankhede Stadium, Bombay (Now Mumbai). Kapil scored 318 runs (Average: 53, 1 century, 1 fifty) and took 22 wickets (2 5-wicket hauls) and walked away with the Man of the Series honours.[17] England saw more of Kapil in the ensuing series at home against the Indian cricket team in the 1982 season when he opened with a 5-wicket haul and 130 runs in a losing cause at Lord's.[18] Kapil Dev finished the 3-match series with 292 runs (Ave: 73, 3 fifties) and 10 Wickets and bagged the Man of the Series again.[19] Facing Sri Lanka for the first time, Kapil helped himself to a five-wicket haul to kick start the 1982?3 season. In the following tour to Pakistan, Kapil and Mohinder Amarnath were the only bright spots in a series dominated by rival all-rounder Imran Khan (40 wickets and 1 century).[20] Kapil took a 5/102 haul in the second Test at National Stadium, Karachi, 7/220 in the third Test at Iqbal Stadium, Faisalabad and 8/85 at Gaddafi Stadium, Lahore while he received little support from other team members. After this disastrous tour, Kapil was made the captain of the Indian cricket team in place of Sunil Gavaskar.

I guess per your definition, that clip of kapil bowling to majid nullifies the opinion on wiki ....

[Guest BossBhai]

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[zen]

Larwood was nowhere as quick as Shoaib or B'Lee and that clip is chosen for a very good reason. And the reason is that it is THE EXACT Same Test match that the poster JBMAC was drooling about and you were trying to sell the same over here to me. This is why I simply do not trust anyone. I only trust my own eyes. A large part of the worshipping surrounding Bradman is a direct result of such blatant embellishment. It isn't moot because there is a long list of such really good bowlers and SRT has had to face them in no less than about 100 Tests. That kinda tells on the averages. This is why his ( or any modern players ) averages cannot be blindly used to compare with Bradmans average. Heck the list of bowlers did not even include the likes of Bertt Lee , Flintoff, Gillespie , Warne etc because their bowling Averages are above 25. If you really honestly think that the bowlers that you see on those videos are anywhere near comparison to Flintoff and Warne then I think we need to stop this conversation right now as there is no point because it appears that the way we both analyze cricket is completely opposite. I dont understand what you are saying here.

i ranked a ten ODI inning highly where he did not play the bowlers that you listed and mostly got rund against trundlers. Per your def I shoulnt rank such knocks highly but that's your opinion .... To me that also shows what he is capable of .... Let's say ten never played the bowlers you listed, would it mean he is not good enough to play them? If that were the case, he would not hv made his test debut at 16 and been successful on that tour without playing such quality bowlers And everyone faces those bowlers now a days so that's not something unique to Tendulkar. Neither SRT is far above some of the other batting greats so your excecise to run down Bradman based on moot points is wasted But since you like to hv last word, I ll give you that opp ..... Also posted kapil's vid to show clip vs opinion point

[zen]

Link Wisdon list of top 100 inning .... Based on some of the points being raised here only ten innings should be rated (unfortunately none of his innings feature) .... Wisdon is fraud too, I guess, to rank inng from the Bradman era in its list

[Guest BossBhai]

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[8ankitj]

If Bradman was born an Indian, then none of us Indians will be cooking up "facts" to deride his achievements :cantstop:

[Guest BossBhai]

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[zen]

If Bradman was born an Indian' date=' then none of us Indians will be cooking up "facts" to deride his achievements :cantstop:[/quote'] +1 As cricket fans, it is better to put jingoism aside when judging cricketers ..... We forget at times that no one is actually paying us to toot their horns so why not give a fair opinion If SRT were not an Indian, I doubt many here would even bother arguing his case .... He would be another Lara, Ponting, kallis, ....

[CSK Fan]

+1 As cricket fans, it is better to put jingoism aside when judging cricketers ..... We forget at times that no one is actually paying us to toot their horns so why not give a fair opinion If SRT were not an Indian, I doubt many here would even bother arguing his case .... He would be another Lara, Ponting, kallis, ....

Thats why most experts of the game, Wisden, commentators, current players, ex players, critics, all place him above all the players you mentioned. But hey, they are all wrong and Rett is right because he invented RPT

[zen]

It is an aspect of the game ... but you cant simply use that to prove that he had great reflexes. The proof will be accepted so long as there arent any better AND quicker bowlers. What happened with Bradman was that he never got to face any such bowlers and this "proof" got etched in stone. And because of the subsequent brainwashing and repetition and embellishments these are being twisted to suit ones own agenda and that fella JBMAC is a fantastic example. He witnessed no real exhibition of Reflexes but since he was already sold and brainwashed beyond repair he keeps propagating this "proof" often with blatant lies. The fault ofcourse is also yours in blindly believing what this guy has to say. if Tendulkar never played the great bowlers it would be wrong to simply assume that he would succeed against them had he played against them because he beat up some rubbish bowlers in some league elsewhere.

You cannot comment on jbmac's views w/o even watching the full video .... As I said, I could judge srts reflexes based on that inng Irrespective of whether SRT played those bowlers, he has the ability to play such bowling and this is what is being taken into account .... If SRT didn't play such bowlers and if ppl say he is not that good based on that then it would be unfair to SRT :winky:

[CSK Fan]

If Bradman was born an Indian' date=' then none of us Indians will be cooking up "facts" to deride his achievements :cantstop:[/quote'] Lots of poeople on this thread have spent time debating facts and arguing. You jump into this thread, most probably without reading any of the posts and make the above statement. to you it might look cool, to others you just seem a 12 year old trying too hard