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A list of some utterly Asinine and Hideous statements made by the Bradman Fanatics

Guest BossBhai

By Guest BossBhai
in Cricket Talk

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zen Grand Master

zen

Posted
Posted
Did he got out to fast bowlers everytime in those 47 matches ? He was dismissed equal number of times by both cronje and donald in his test career . So how does Donald get the credit whenever Hansie dismissed Sachin ? This stat of average against bowlers is crappy to start with , if the fast bowlers dismissed him in every match then you have a point .
that's even worse :((
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Patiala Peg Newbie

Patiala Peg

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Posted
Did he got out to fast bowlers everytime in those 47 matches ? He was dismissed equal number of times by both cronje and donald in his test career . So how does Donald get the credit whenever Hansie dismissed Sachin ? This stat of average against bowlers is crappy to start with , if the fast bowlers dismissed him in every match then you have a point .
Atleast understand the stat !! It is average against side not bowler ! It is average against a side when that bowler is playing ! It is the pressure that the great fast bowlers create that gets wickets at the other end. 90 % of the times guys like Mcgrath, Donald, Akram, Pollock and company have stifled and threatened him no end and he has thrown his wickets to other bowlers. Over 47 tests against their sides when they are playing, he has averaged 38.XX. That is a stunniing fall compared to his average against these sides when those bowlers are not playing. And that reveals only 1 thing, great fast bowlers have DOMINATED him by and large. It is one thing to have a fall against great fast bowlers. But 20 points !!
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zen Grand Master

zen

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Posted
Yes its worse so Hansie had the major role to play in the low average that Sachin has against Donald ' date=' dont make it look like Donald dismissed him below under 10 every Inning .[/quote'] it could also imply that donald didnt even hv to try as just his presense was enough to make srt think abt going after hansie before donald could get him out and got out in the process :((
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Patiala Peg Newbie

Patiala Peg

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Posted
And making such peurile comments is your idea of a "Civil" discussion ? Do you really expect me to buy everything you are saying without cross checking? sorry a debate doesnt work like that. If you don't have the patience to see what the other guy is saying why bother ? Just make some statement like Lara >>>>> SRT and be done with. are the stats of RT Ponting , A Flower, SR Waugh, JH Kallis, MA Taylor, JL Langer, GA Gooch also skewed who have played more than 40 inngs agaisnt these bowlers ? see the stats are as skewed as the criteria you came up with in post # 151.
And those are great names that have outdone SRT against great fast bowlers. Guys like Waugh, Ponting and Kallis are ATGs in their own rights. Gooch is a renowned player of pace bowling. So whats your point ??? Are you trying to make a point that since some names happen to be of a lower profile but great players nonetheless , SRT's glaring failures over nearly 50 tests is an aberration ? That is the most twisted and manipulative logic. AN absolute standout is standout in terms of SHEER quality in his era and beyond. SRT stands out in numbers because of the huge quantity of games he has played. He has never been head of the pack for more than 3-4 years in his entire career of 22 years.
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zen Grand Master

zen

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Posted

Loved reading PP (Patiala Peg) and Kirkutfan's posts .... some folks have no answer to them but pretend to be in the game :giggle: Like kirkutfan advised to a 'supposedly dead' fanatic to fold his cards and go out for a walk .... how many times ppl have been shot/blown up to death :P

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Andrew Peter Newbie

Andrew Peter

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Posted
another gem^ :hysterical:
Actually this stat makes more sense than the crappy one against a particular fast bowler . Same match , same pitch , same situation . Who excelled ? Shouldnt the far superior Lara be averging twice as SRT in matches that they played together ? Firstly because according to you Lara was a far superior batsman and secondly because the quality of bowling that Sachin had to bat against was way superior compared to that faced by Lara , yet inspite of facing crappy toothless Indian bowling attack the superior Lara for some reason averages less compared to inferior Tendulkar who faced more meaningless attacks consisting Ambrose & Walsh .
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zen Grand Master

zen

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Posted
You say this as though SRT gets to play because BCCI is run by his family ? Did someone stop Lara from playing at the time he retired at the age of 36 ?
That's a decent age to retire .... can't force someone to keep playing just because playing a few more yrs would add to the tally ....
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zen Grand Master

zen

Posted
Posted
Actually this stat makes more sense than the crappy one against a particular fast bowler . Same match , same pitch , same situation . Who excelled ? Shouldnt the far superior Lara be averging twice as SRT in matches that they played together ? Firstly because according to you Lara was a far superior batsman and secondly because the quality of bowling that Sachin had to bat against was way superior compared to that faced by Lara , yet inspite of facing crappy toothless bowling attack th superior Lara for some reason averages less compared to inferior Tendulkar who faces more meaningless attacks consisting Ambrose & Walsh .
The bitter truth is that it's a dumb way (not sensible) to do a stat like that^ esp. if you are comparing batsmen from opposing teams. Check out Flower vs SRT when both have played together Itcan be useful if you are comparing guys from the same team, this is how the Indian line up did in those games: link and this is how the WI line up did link To judge players based on playing against better bowling attacks, see the table below: 
vs Aus: McGrath+Warne
vs Pak: Waqar+Wasim
vs SA: Donald+Pollock
vs SL: Murali+Vaas
vs WI: Ambrose+Walsh 

	M	I	No	R	Avg
BCLara	36	68	3	3370	51.85
sWaugh	42	66	7	2745	46.53
Inzama	33	56	3	2365	44.62
Anwar	20	33	0	1402	42.48
Sachin	29	49	1	2020	42.08
mWaugh	39	63	2	2408	39.48
Flower	24	44	7	1396	37.73
Dravid	33	58	4	2034	37.67

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Patiala Peg Newbie

Patiala Peg

Posted
Posted

Bossbhai, Are you in shock and disbelief because a player from a weak side did so well consistently. Does any stat related to him become an anomaly because of that ? Does Flower become a bad player because he played for the weakest side ? He was one of the top players of the 90's era who played for the weakest side. Who can dispute that. He played lower down and thus had a lot of not outs in a line up where is was the only world class player leading to inflated average because of not outs. But by and large he was a world class test batter who pioneered sweeping spinners in India..and did excellent against most top fast bowling sides. Try as much as you can, you cannot cover up for the glaring SRT failure in nearly 50 tests against great fast bowlers of his era. 50 tests is NOT an anomaly I don't make personal attacks, questioning someone's logic is not making personal attacks. And test cricket career is not some god damn marathon where you have to play as much as you can and conjure maximum runs to be called great. Different players have different priorities and not everyone's priority is cricket beyond a certain age.

The point is that you rated Lara above SRT using that stat. Now using the same stat I showed you that others have "owned" ( the word that you prefer ) Lara and that too by a bigger margin. Now feel free to make sense out of your stat considering that Andy Flower is so far ahead of Lara ( and ofcourse SRT ). It is a meaningless stat because there are too many anomalies. Unless ofcourse you ACTUALLY think Andy Flower plays fast bowling better than Lara and SRT. I thought you wanted a civil discssion no ? Shall I similarly start calling your logic all sorts of names ? You say this as though SRT gets to play because BCCI is run by his family ? Did someone stop Lara from playing at the time he retired at the age of 36 ?
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Andrew Peter Newbie

Andrew Peter

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Posted 
vs Aus: McGrath+Warne
vs Pak: Waqar+Wasim
vs SA: Donald+Pollock
vs SL: Murali+Vaas
vs WI: Ambrose+Walsh 

	M	I	No	R	Avg
BCLara	36	68	3	3370	51.85
sWaugh	42	66	7	2745	46.53
Inzama	33	56	3	2365	44.62
Anwar	20	33	0	1402	42.48
Sachin	29	49	1	2020	42.08
mWaugh	39	63	2	2408	39.48
Flower	24	44	7	1396	37.73
Dravid	33	58	4	2034	37.67

I remember that S Waugh has a pathetic record in Sri Lanka where he averages only 16 yet the flawed table above shows that he has absolutely pwned the likes of Muralitharan and Vaas. Further digging of stats reveals that Waugh has played 4 matches against Muralitharan and averages 60 against him . In 3 matches played in Sri Lanka against Muralitharan , Waugh scored 52 runs at average of 19 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/8192.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/8192.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;player_involve=2041;template=results;type=allround But made up for his poor average in only match he played against Muralitharan in Australia by scoring a Mammoth 131 * and hiked his overall average to 60 with the help of just one inning batting in home conditions of Australia which offer zero assistance to the visiting spinners . How can this be dominance of any kind ? Its like a FTB Indian Batsmen being a Bunny of Anderson in cloudy conditions of England who after a few years makes up for all the failures in England by scoring a mammoth score on phatta track of Ahmedabaad against Anderson who gets nothing from the wicket and few years later his fans claim that Anderson was absolutely pawned by that FTB Batsman . Is this what would you call as Waugh's domination of Murali and Co ? His stats against Vaas are exactly the same , failing away and bashing at home . These one bowler stats are absurd .
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Patiala Peg Newbie

Patiala Peg

Posted
Posted
Is Flower a Better player of Fast bowling than BCL .... straight answer.
Straight Answer ? Hehe. 1) You have provided no straight answers for SRT's pathetic failures against the top 7 fast bowlers of the 90's in nearly 50 tests.( average drop down of 20 points against these sides against is overall average ) 2) Let alone providing straight answers you have conveniently ducked the fact that in 22 years SRT topped ICC rankings for not more than 3-4 years. Some ATG player. 3) You have provided no straight answers for the fact that none of his tons figure in top knocks of all time . For someone who has scored a record number and played a record number of games. EK bhi nahi ? Anomaly yeah ? I am not expecting a " straight " answer to my above 3 points . I will give you a " straight " answer to the your question if you give me a " straight " answer why Flower is as much a fair comparison as Steve Waugh, Lara, Kallis Ponting who played comparable number of chances both home and away against all possible fast bowlers of their era.
I never said it is a personal attack but trust me you will not like it at all if I start to respond in kind. It will be better if you use bland language and keep your emotions out of it. Otherwise I will most certainly respond by calling your logic all sorts of names. Its a very easy game to play.
Ok Ji.
What ? Being regarded as a top player and a prized wicket way past the normal retirement age of 36/37 is a great achievement. Tendulkar will make a good 20-25% of BCL's final run tally from age 37 onwards ( the age at which BCL retired ) this is a remarkable achievement.
He can go on and play till 46/47 and double his own tally of runs. But that would just make him a record holder and nothing more.
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Patiala Peg Newbie

Patiala Peg

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Posted

Well the 7 great fast bowlers have performed well both home and away and dominated him both home and away. I am not talking a single bowler, talking about 7 of the best fast bowlers of the 90's , 6 of them ATG . How does Murali come into the picture here ? IN any case atleast Waugh " pwned " Murali on his home turf. The 6 ATG fast bowlers of his era have come and "pwned " SRT ruthless both home and away.

I remember that S Waugh has a pathetic record in Sri Lanka where he averages only 16 yet the flawed table above shows that he has absolutely pwned the likes of Muralitharan and Vaas. Further digging of stats reveals that Waugh has played 4 matches against Muralitharan and averages 60 against him . In 3 matches played in Sri Lanka against Muralitharan , Waugh scored 52 runs at average of 19 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/8192.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/8192.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;player_involve=2041;template=results;type=allround But made up for his poor average in only match he played against Muralitharan in Australia by scoring a Mammoth 131 * and hiked his overall average to 60 with the help of just one inning batting in home conditions of Australia which offer zero assistance to the visiting spinners . How can this be dominance of any kind ? Its like a FTB Indian Batsmen being a Bunny of Anderson in cloudy conditions of England who after a few years makes up for all the failures in England by scoring a mammoth score on phatta track of Ahmedabaad against Anderson who gets nothing from the wicket and few years later his fans claim that Anderson was absolutely pawned by that FTB Batsman . Is this what would you call as Waugh's domination of Murali and Co ? His stats against Vaas are exactly the same , failing away and bashing at home . These one bowler stats are absurd .
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