I Told You So

[Ram]

In America more than elsewhere' date=' like the EU, it seems.[/quote'] Its a very worrying trend across all democracies. The issues which sell the most nowadays are terrorism , immigration , religion , caste , regionalism , linguistic divides , when unfortunately , it should have been corruption , people welfare , social security etc.

[gorah_pindu]

Its a very worrying trend across all democracies. The issues which sell the most nowadays are terrorism ' date=' immigration , religion , caste , regionalism , linguistic divides , when unfortunately , it should have corruption , people welfare , social security etc.[/quote'] Although the trent is worrying, countries like the UK, Canada, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, etc, still emphise topics like economic health far more than overblown security fears like America. I just hope they will stay that way.

[Ram]

Although the trent is worrying' date=' countries like the UK, Canada, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, etc, still emphise topics like economic health far more than overblown security fears like America. I just hope they will stay that way.[/quote'] Trust me , immigration is going to be a BIG issue from now on in Europe. Its just a matter of time, not a matter of IF. All it takes is ONE big terrorist strike in one of Europe's major capital. Not that i want that to happen , but that is my fear.

[gorah_pindu]

Zooter ' date=' Gore got the better of Bush in 2000. We all know that. If Florida's ballot counting had been done fairly , we would have had a democrat as a president from 2000. And i am bit surprised you say he doesnt have any flair. Did you read the article that came on the Time magazine sometime ago , which was alluding to how Gore was running a very successful climate-protection campaign and how the crowds are so impressed with him that there are many calls for him to run for president. And given his business contacts with Apple and Google , Gore would have no problems racking up the millions required to run. I think you have underestimated Gore a bit here.[/quote'] Gore should be president. And he should have run in place of Kerry last election.

[yoda]

Actually Yoda, You need votes for the nomination--not money :D.

Money is needed to run an effective primary campaign. Name recognition is very important. Most of the american public insn't interested in politics. They don't pay attention to debates. You need to drill your name into their heads and for that you need money.

[yoda]

Gore should be president. And he should have run in place of Kerry last election.

He couldn't win against an unknown Bush, no way is he winning over a sitting president. It is very difficult to sway the republican base (which is getting bigger by the day) unless you have an excellent choice from the Democratic side.

[Zooter]

Heh' date=' even when I bought into Hindu nationalism, I wasnt stupid enough to think Republicans were the friends of Hinduism. Their evangelist benefactors spend billions each year trying to stir up militant fundamentalism in India. So this comes as no suprise.[/quote'] You'd be surprised gp--I could be wrong but I think our very own dada_rocks is in love with Evangelicals and hates the Democrats. (I think on the grounds that the Republicans want to give India nuke technology :hysterical:). MM, Actually, I'm not underestimating the "Christian Heartland." But things don't look too good for them (in their mind). They hate Giuliani no matter how much he tries to suck up to them (in fact James Dobson has openly told him that the Christian right WILL NOT support him--ouch ! :haha:); and as you all are saying ... campaigns are nothing more than money ... so McCain should be out; Romney is a Mormon ... I think a Muslim would have a better chance in the Bible-belt; ... so who's left? The rest of them are low-tier and Fred Thomson/Newt Gingrich may not even run. Just as you believe I am low-balling the effect of the religious right-wing, I think most everybody is low-balling the effect of the normal, sane, religious, decent, non-fundamentalist decent folk. Did I mention decent?!?! And the trend I think I'm seeing is that they are finally flexing their muscle. A key piece of evidence being the previous Mid-Term elections when they all (i.e. the conservatives) voted (gasp) DEMOCRAT as opposed to Republican!!! That's why this next Presidential election is considered by most to heavily favor the Democrats. Another Republican in the right-wing Bush mould is not gonna work (otherwise the GOP would still have Congress and Bush's ratings wouldn't be low 20%s); but a decent conservative tempered in his outook who is anti-neocon still has the chance in my estimation to blow away the competition. And who is that competition? 1) Hillary, who the Bible-belt hates more than Satan, 2) Obama with middle name Hussein--enuf said 3) Edwards ... small potatoes but who knows. I think if you put Ron Paul against one of those 3 chamchas, it won't even be close. (Vegas seems to think so :giggle:) As for Al Gore, ... I've seen some speeches, and watched his movie and he does seem to be at peace with himself. I can't really say anything intelligent about him at this point, but I don't think he'll run. And yes he defeated Bush two elections ago but it was too close. If you consider the way Bush performed, Gore should have never even made it that close--the Republicans stole it, but it should have never come to that. (I think we all remember how unbelievably retarded Bush was).

[gorah_pindu]

I think a Muslim would have a better chance in the Bible-belt;

Heh, increasing numbers of white Texans are converting to Islam. Yeehah!

[Guest dada_rocks]

I tell you any freaking guy or party will screw you if u put all eggs in one basket. iThere is no rule about whether demo/repub are india'f friend. Nobody's is anybody's freind it's all plitics of conveneince and u have to spot that.. But over-all i see republicas as haters and democrats as condescanding pri$ks apropos India. Ihaters by their very nature of hate give u parity in dealing. ( U don't hate insignificant characters). While demos by their condescansion say that we are nobody. Again USa politics is too much personality driven so things keep changing. Nothing is holy grail.

[CC1981]

He couldn't win against an unknown Bush,

Err...technically....Gore did win !

[kumble_rocks]

Gore's biggest mistake was distancing from Clinton during campaign trail. He underestimated the rock star appeal of President Clinton and his own lackadaisical charm.

[CC1981]

Gore's biggest mistake was distancing from Clinton during campaign trail. He underestimated the rock star appeal of President Clinton and his own lackadaisical charm.

Yep.Clinton is the only president i've heard of that some Americans wish the 2-term restriction didnt apply to. And one of the major pros of having Hillary as president is that Bill will be in the picture somewhere and exert some influence (even if limited). The only sane American politican i've heard or known of was Clinton. ( Dood was 100% right about Iraq and he said it in 97/98 when he authorised the missile bombing of some Sudanese factories).

[Ram]

All you guys have seen the cool Clinton. Have you seen Clinton in rage ? See the video ! h3jM4CGwn4g

[Lurker]

Yep.Clinton is the only president i've heard of that some Americans wish the 2-term restriction didnt apply to.

Clinton doesnt come close to Reagan in that regard. Clinton has charisma and that was about it pretty much. More saner politician than George Bush Jr but thats not saying much anyway. I think in the past 40 odd years (post Kennedy) Reagan is the most liked/respected President of USA and perhaps the only one from post 1950 era that would be a prime candidate amongst the all-time greatest US Presidents. xx

[CC1981]

Clinton doesnt come close to Reagan in that regard.

Reagan was bullshyte. Used his hollywood acting experience to hide his idiocy and then went senile in the last few years.

Reagan is the most liked/respected President of USA and perhaps the only one from post 1950 era that would be a prime candidate amongst the all-time greatest US Presidents.

What a pity that would be then. Sad reflection on American populace to pick Raegan over Clinton. Someone who supported genociders with weapons and then lied about it belongs in a list closer to PolPot than alltime greats. But then again, we are talking about the US here...their standards of coduct is remarkably low amongst their presidents. The founding fathers were twerps of the highest order, really. Slavers, war criminals, bigots by behaviour.

[Zooter]

Clinton doesnt come close to Reagan in that regard. Clinton has charisma and that was about it pretty much. More saner politician than George Bush Jr but thats not saying much anyway. I think in the past 40 odd years (post Kennedy) Reagan is the most liked/respected President of USA and perhaps the only one from post 1950 era that would be a prime candidate amongst the all-time greatest US Presidents. xx

Actually Lurks, That's a misconception. Regan increased the U.S. debt in his tenure more than all the other U.S. Presidents put together since 1776. The way Bush is leading the war to invade every Muslim country in the hope that America can shove democracy down peoples throats while STEALING ALL their natural resources is exactly what Regan used to do with the Soviet Union. He was a stooge. The military-industrial complex used that acting fool to create a boogy monster. And he drove America into debt like never before. And that pattern of crushing the U.S. economy (taking away student loans, not helping the poor while siphoning all the monies to the military industrial complex) is EXACTLY what Bush is doing. American public debt up to Bush Jr. was 4 trillion since George Washington--you know where it is now (?): 9 trillion. Regan was just a good speaker and so those right-wingers who know nothing about anything got swept off their feet with him--in actual terms: making America secure, increasing their prestige, helping the lower middle class and poor, strengthining the middle class, and dissolving the power of the Raytheon's and Halliburton's of that day--he was a big, fat ZERO. Not to mention the drugs he used the CIA to bring into black neighborhoods to acquire funds to start foreign wars. He lied about that. Just think of it: imagine Vajpayee bringing in heroin from our neighbor Afghanistan with the express purpose to make more money and start a war with some country??!??!

[CC1981]

Vajpayee bringing in heroin from our neighbor Afghanistan with the express purpose to make more money and start a war with some country??!??!

and selling to the tribal community or adivasis...

[Zooter]

Reagan was bullshyte. Used his hollywood acting experience to hide his idiocy and then went senile in the last few years. What a pity that would be then. Sad reflection on American populace to pick Raegan over Clinton. Someone who supported genociders with weapons and then lied about it belongs in a list closer to PolPot than alltime greats. But then again, we are talking about the US here...their standards of coduct is remarkably low amongst their presidents. The founding fathers were twerps of the highest order, really. Slavers, war criminals, bigots by behaviour.

True, But if you judge the founding fathers by their contemporaries, they were good people. Gandhi did not own slaves but he was a bigot and a racist and a damn near pedophile--he wanted to test his libido by sleeping with multiple teen and pre-teen girls!!!! :sad_smile: Their greatest contribution was the money thing: they understood the money scam European bankers used to pull (a scam that Indians still haven't figuered out which is why no Indian can answer the question: How did 1000 English subdue a continent of 300 million people?). Their purpose of starting America was to have an independent monetary system, and if the entire world followed their model (except for Hamilton--he was a stooge of the European bankers), the ENTIRE WORLD would break free of debt bondage. The small group of America's founding fathers had the guts to stand up to institute their own monetary policy--a policy that for instance, Japan could use right now. Think of it? How is it that the most technically advanced nation on the earth, with a work ethic second to none suffers from murderous infation for almost 2 decades now. Shouldn't a country like that have financial stability??? If Japan started reading the works of America's founding father, ... I SWEAR TO YOU CC, they would dissolve their privately owned central bank, and get out of debt foreever.

[Lurker]

Zoots/CC, I can argue about the merits and demerits of Reagan but that is not in the question, is it? The question is how popular Reagan was and the easy answer is that he is one of the greatest US Presidents ever. Here is where he was ranked by C-Span survey in list of great US Presidents: 1 Abraham Lincoln 2 George Washington 3 Theodore Roosevelt 4 Franklin D. Roosevelt 5 Thomas Jefferson 6 Ronald Reagan 7 Harry S. Truman 8 Dwight D. Eisenhower 9 James Monroe 10 James Madison In Gallup polls Reagan came 2nd after Lincoln. http://www.pollingreport.com/wh-hstry.htm xx

[Zooter]

A MUST READ ... for those who don't know who Carroll Quigley is, and who are unaware of how international financial instutions work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_Quigley