The "Constellation" that is India's Batting Line-up...

[The Outsider]

So are Sehwag's recent failures' date=' he was batting as an opener too[/quote'] Was Laxman a regular in the team when he was failing? No.

[Bumper]

I'd take the risk with Yuvraj next game. Its not like the batsmen he would replace are gonna score a triple ton. There is a chance, albeit slim that he may come off, if he does he'd be far more successful than the ones hobbling their way to 35 at a SR of 40

[Bumper]

Was Laxman a regular in the team when he was failing? No.

Why arent u using the same yardstick for Yuvraj & Sehwag ? Was Yuvraj a regular in the test lineup when he was failing ? NO

[The Outsider]

I'd take the risk with Yuvraj next game. Its not like the batsmen he would replace are gonna score a triple ton.

If he were to replace Dhoni, no problem replacing cr@p with cr@p but atleast the others have scored in the past and just might give you the odd great performance. No chance of Yuvraj doing that. He couldn't score in county cricket FFS in English conditions. The guy is useless when the ball is moving around, one Lahore innings notwithstanding.

[The Outsider]

Why arent u using the same yardstick for Yuvraj & Sehwag ? Was Yuvraj a regular in the test lineup when he was failing ? NO

I would use the same yardstick for everyone except Tendulkar and Dravid. They deserve more rope for obvious reasons. Tell me why should Sehwag be in the side after his non performance over the past year and a half when all his runs have been on pattas.

[Ram]

Let's talk test cricket where technique and temperament are truly tested.

Temerament ? Yuvraj's temperament is in question ? with him finishing so many matches for India while chasing... That guy must have one of the coolest heads in the Indian team. I have said this and i say it again , Yuvraj's technique is much under-rated.

[The Outsider]

Temerament ? Yuvraj's temperament is in question ? with him finishing so many matches for India while chasing... That guy must have one of the coolest heads in the Indian team.

Yes it is a big question mark because the temperament to play long test innings is different from the one required to finish off ODIs. His FC average is a mediocre 43. He is not the man to carry India's middle order.

Yuvraj's technique is much under-rated.

And rightly so. The guy has a brighter future catching fish on the Malabar coast than playing test matches on pitches with movement.

[Ram]

Yes it is a big question mark because the temperament to play long test innings is different from the one required to finish off ODIs. His FC average is a mediocre 43. He is not the man to carry India's middle order.

I dont agree with that. The lines are getting increasingly blurred between one day cricket and test cricket. Sehwag shows no appreciable change in approach between the two forms of the game. An attacking no.6 will be vital addition to the Indian team. Dhoni is like a walking wicket. I would have breathed much easier had Yuvraj walked out instead of him.

And rightly so. The guy has a brighter future catching fish on the Malabar coast than playing test matches on pitches with movement.

How can we come to the conclusion without giving Yuvraj enough chances to prove himself otherwise. I dont remember him being in the team for more than 4-5 test matches in a row.

[The Outsider]

I dont agree with that. The lines are getting increasingly blurred between one day cricket and test cricket. Sehwag shows no appreciable change in approach between the two forms of the game. An attacking no.6 will be vital addition to the Indian team. Dhoni is like a walking wicket. I would have breathed much easier had Yuvraj walked out instead of him.

Sehwag has a FC average of over 50 demonstrating that he has it in him to play test match innings. How can a FC average of 43 inspire any confidence? True, Dhoni is useless but so is Yuvraj. Need to take our search elsewhere.

How can we come to the conclusion without giving Yuvraj enough chances to prove himself otherwise. I dont remember him being in the team for more than 4-5 test matches in a row.

On the basis of watching him bat. The way he hangs out his bat outside off stump has never cut it for any test match aspirant and chances are it won't for Yuvraj either.

[Ram]

Sehwag has a FC average of over 50 demonstrating that he has it in him to play test match innings. How can a FC average of 43 inspire any confidence? True' date=' Dhoni is useless but so is Yuvraj. Need to take our search elsewhere.[/quote'] FC class averages are NOT a good barometer to pass judgments on how the international careers of cricketers would go. That much , i think we have agreed to earlier.

On the basis of watching him bat. The way he hangs out his bat outside off stump has never cut it for any test match aspirant and chances are it won't for Yuvraj either.

If that is the case , Sehwag shouldnt even be in the team . Come to think of it -- he has got the most loose technique outside off-stump for a test-match opener.

[Bumper]

Right, we have Laxman & Saurav scoring one brilliant 100 after another, we are gonna repent missing their services by replacing one of them with Yuvraj. Currently our batting lineup is so mediocre that replacing anyone with Yuvraj wont hurt us, as much. If we just argue based on recent form & FC statistics, theres no way Ganguly should have played in the Saffie series. Yuvraj has shown good form in ODI cricket. He has shown that he is matured as a player. Lets give him a chance & then pass judgement on him, shall we ?

[The Outsider]

FC class averages are NOT a good barometer to pass judgments on how the international careers of cricketers would go. That much , i think we have agreed to earlier.

I am not saying a good FC average guarantees success in test cricket rather that a poor/mediocre FC average more or less guarantees failure in test matches. There might be a few exceptions but there is nothing to suggest from Yuvraj's 20 test matches that he can prove to be an exception.

If that is the case , Sehwag shouldnt even be in the team . Come to think of it -- he has got the most loose technique outside off-stump for a test-match opener.

When Sehwag was in form, his off side game was very good. He would leave deliveries and when he went at them he went hard. His weight transfer is also much better than Yuvraj's.

[Bumper]

Technique is grossly overrated. RPS made as many runs as Laxman, Dhoni & Dravid combined (thats 3 top order batsman equating a tailender). We need to give a guy like Yuvraj who has no fear of failure a chance. Am sick & tired of watching Laxman & Ganguly playing game after game to save their own a$$es, without any regard to the needs of the team.

[The Outsider]

Yuvraj has shown good form in ODI cricket. He has shown that he is matured as a player.

I've been hearing this maturing of Yuvraj for many years now. He HAS been played ahead of a class act like Laxman in the past and done jack$hit. If you were talking about someone like Rao and Badrinath replacing them, fair enough but no use "recycling garbage".(using Yoda's quote here)

[Ram]

I am not saying a good FC average guarantees success in test cricket rather that a poor/mediocre FC average more or less guarantees failure in test matches. There might be a few exceptions but there is nothing to suggest from Yuvraj's 20 test matches that he can prove to be an exception.

A Majority ( 10) of those 19 test matches were before the season of 2005 , which was He became this outstanding match winner that he is now. And , his loosness outside off-stump will matter for little in the flat pitches on which a majority of test cricket is played today.

When Sehwag was in form, his off side game was very good. He would leave deliveries and when he went at them he went hard. His weight transfer is also much better than Yuvraj's.

Are we getting into intricate technicalities now ?

[The Outsider]

A Majority ( 10) of those 19 test matches were before the season of 2005 , which was He became this outstanding match winner that he is now. And , his loosness outside off-stump will matter for little in the flat pitches on which a majority of test cricket is played today.

And in the 9 tests played after his supposed maturity and coming of age, he has done nothing even on flat tracks.

Are we getting into intricate technicalities now ?

It's these intricate technicalities which make Yuvraj a doomed failure in test matches unless he can improve these deficiencies. I can't think of any batsman succeeding in test matches who hangs his bat outside off stump like Yuvraj does with very little body weight transfer.

[Bumper]

Since 2005, SL series, when Yuvraj was inducted into the test side for a more regular stint, has played 11 tests @ 32, Laxy 14 tests @36. Hardly any difference

filtered              11   491 122   32.73   1   2   0   -       -    0  12  0
                     [COLOR=#ff0000]14   769 104   36.61   2   5   -   -       -    -  10  0[/COLOR]
 
v England              2    64  37   21.33   0   0   -   -       -    -   1  0
                     [COLOR=#ff0000]1     0   0    0.00   0   0   -   -       -    -   1  0[/COLOR]
v Pakistan             3   171 122   57.00   1   0   0   -       -    0   4  0
                     [COLOR=#ff0000]3   138  90   46.00   0   1   -   -       -    -   2  0[/COLOR]
v South Africa         0     -   -     -     -   -   -   -       -    -   -  -
                     [COLOR=#ff0000]3   180  73   36.00   0   2   -   -       -    -   5  0[/COLOR]
v Sri Lanka            2   152  77*  50.66   0   2   -   -       -    -   0  0
                     [COLOR=#ff0000]3   194 104   38.80   1   1   -   -       -    -   1  0[/COLOR]
v West Indies          4   104  39   17.33   0   0   0   -       -    0   7  0
                     [COLOR=#ff0000]4   257 100   36.71   1   1   -   -       -    -   1  0[/COLOR]
 

[The Outsider]

Since 2005, SL series, when Yuvraj was inducted into the test side for a more regular stint, has played 11 tests @ 32, Laxy 14 tests @36. Hardly any difference

So why replace Laxman with Yuvraj? If you are going to replace Laxman replace him with someone untried from domestic cricket. Why keep on awarding test spots to a tried and tested failure? BTW, the only series both played away from the subcontinent, Laxman was miles better than Yuvraj. Not only that, he did decent in South Africa, much better than Yuvraj would have done on evidence of how Yuvraj has played on pitches with movement. How is replacing him with Yuvraj going to solve anything?

[Bumper]

Known devil vs an unknown angel. First of all we dont have the luxury of picking anyone else (since Badri or Rao arent in the squad). Second, we are already experimenting with Karthik & Jaffer at the top. Add another Rookie, u got half the batting lineup filled with rookies. Thats suicidal in an overseas tour. The argument in favor of Yuvraj is his experience at the international level & the hope that at some point he can bring his ODI form to tests. The right time to blood Rao or Badri would be in a home series or vs a minnow, not against England in England.

BTW, the only series both played away from the subcontinent, Laxman was miles better than Yuvraj. Not only that, he did decent in South Africa, much better than Yuvraj would have done on evidence of how Yuvraj has played on pitches with movement. How is replacing him with Yuvraj going to solve anything?

Thats pure speculation because there is no data to prove or disprove that. If u go by his world cup performanc es in SA, he did quite well in those bouncy pitches.

[The Outsider]

Known devil vs an unknown angel.

Known devil has at least shown in the past that he is capable of producing the very best performance against the very best teams. Unknown angel is not an unknown. He has been given 20 tests to show what he is worth and has failed and has been given a regular run in the side for the last year and a half.

First of all we dont have the luxury of picking anyone else (since Badri or Rao arent in the squad).

And more reason to stick with someone who is not at the peak of his game but has the ability to turn it on rather than go for someone who has done nothing but failed.

The argument in favor of Yuvraj is his experience at the international level & the hope that at some point he can bring his ODI form to tests.

It's time Yuvraj supporters stop hoping for it to happen. Never in the history of test cricket has a batsman with a mediocre FC average of 43 and a hang his bat outside the off stump technique with no weight transfer succeeded.

The right time to blood Rao or Badri would be in a home series or vs a minnow, not against England in England.

A completely wrong approach. Those guys are not rookies but have decent domestic and A tour experience and the real class players shine through in tough conditions and not given soft debuts. Gavaskar in WI, Kapil in Pakistan, Tendulkar in Pakistan, Dravid in England, Ganguly in England, Sehwag in South Africa. If you feel someone is a good enough cricketer to play for the country you can't be shielding him from tough situations.

Thats pure speculation because there is no data to prove or disprove that. If u go by his world cup performanc es in SA, he did quite well in those bouncy pitches.

An analysis of someone's cr@p technique is not speculation. BTW, ODIs don't have 3 slips and gully and are generally played on better batting surfaces than tests.