Bumper Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 Not only did the BG trophy NOT exchange hands we became the ONLY team to have drawn a series IN AUS ... please tell me how that is any less acheivement ? Drawing a series is not creating history. And the 155 was the difference between drawing a series and winning it .... because we lost the last test (Despite a classy 177 by guess who ... but it doesnt qualify as a "Classy knock" because some others fluffed sound familiar?) If and buts and all that... I have given my reasons for that 155 already.
Rajiv Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 And what is SRT supposed to do if his bowlers dont bowl out the opposition while sitting on top of a 400 run lead and a day to spare ? Well isnt he a bowler too, what else can the man do :thumbs_up:
Bumper Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 And what is SRT supposed to do if his bowlers dont bowl out the opposition while sitting on top of a 400 run lead and a day to spare ? Do what Dravid does. Instead of playing a good innings once in a while & hoping for a victory, play a good innings when the match is there to be won.
Lurker Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 Lurks, cmon man Indian Cricket in the 90s were all about Tendulkar Indian cricket was a joke without him No disputes on that one Rajeev. However here is a candid question. As an Indian cricket fan are you happy with what Sachin achieved for India? I say NO because at the end of the day India did nothing of note during Sachin's era. It is extremely hard to overlook that simple point. xxx
Bumper Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 No disputes on that one Rajeev. However here is a candid question. As an Indian cricket fan are you happy with what Sachin achieved for India? I say NO because at the end of the day India did nothing of note during Sachin's era. It is extremely hard to overlook that simple point. xxx Thats the key. SRT fans often feel its all unfair that the team blew it when SRT did his part. But that is hardly a juistification in such a long career. What applies to Sachin applies to many others too. Many have made great contributions & still have ended up with not as much team success. But most greats have managed to play great knocks that won something for their team, inspite of this. Restating what i stated earlier, unless the team in question is Australia, players who stand up when the team needs them are the ones who are likely to play match winning knocks.
Lurker Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 you say no because your goal posts are not even constant never mind fair ... I mean look at Bumpers reasoning ... 158 is better than 155 just because he thinks it is . 153 is better than everything else .. etc etc etc .. You have your own version of fairness and I have mine. Just as I think you are being very unfair when you bring in class and stats in the same sentence. I have given my reasons for NO. It is simply that inspite of Sachin being part of as strong an Indian side as any, he has not been able to achieve what India did in 80s. No matter how you spin it that point doesnt change. xx
Lurker Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 So has Sachin ... but your problem is you have criteria that demand that the innings come when our ass is on fire ..... That should not be the only criteria but it sure has to be one of the key criteria. I mean come on what good is a team's leading player when he is unable to save India when India really needs him? Your point about pre-empting is fair. But that is more a pojnt in LOI if anything. How do you pre-empt in test cricket? In Test cricket the gritty innings are often played in 2nd innings for the team and in that Sachin's record is not very flattering. xxx
Lurker Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 And I say the exact opposite. Proove me wrong. And do u know why I put the onus on you to come with the criteria for a "Classy knock" ? Its because no matter what criteria I say you will come up with a situation that wont apply and start jumping ..... Whats with all the assumption here? I can also say that being a big Sachin fan you would never be rational in a Sachin argument. As for your assertion of proving you wrong I will ask the same question I had asked before. Give me top 3 achievements of Indian cricket history and tell me how many of them is Sachin Tendulkar a big part of? There you have your criteria. xxx
Bumper Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 So has Sachin ... but your problem is you have criteria that demand that the innings come when our ass is on fire .... you dont give credit to innings that pre-empts such a fire in the first place ...and when I put out 155 you twist and turn and bring out the electron microscope. Nah dont get me wrong. Am i looking for 100 innings that came under pressure ? Am just looking for ONE. Why is this important u may ask ? It is important because many times in their careers players get an opportunity to stand up and be counted and in the process avhieve something significant for their country. The players on my list (Dravid, Laxman, Pietersen etc) have showed up in such circumstances, while Tendu has failed. If Tendu plays for a team like WI which NEVER puts themselves in a winning situation against decent opponents, ur point will be stronger. This Indian team has shown the ability to beat pretty much all opponents in the last 7 years and yet SRT hasnt transformed these opportunities into successes. Thats my beef with him!
Lurker Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 By not waiting till the 4th inning .... check his stats for Match innings 1,2,3 ... they are as good as anybodies out there. Let me give my take on this. In Test cricket the more important innings, if you can put a tag like that, comes in the 2nd innings of a Test match. Why so? Because if a match is in 3rd/4th innings you can safely assume there is a good chance of a result. Out of 3rd and 4th innings the latter is tougher. The pitch starts becoming increasingly worse and the pressure is lot more due to your back being against the wall(no extra innings in the game). Many 3rd innings are vital too, I will give you that but I a pretty darn sure most cricket fans would agree that everything else remaining same 4th innings of a Test is the toughest test. xx
Rajiv Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 No disputes on that one Rajeev. However here is a candid question. As an Indian cricket fan are you happy with what Sachin achieved for India? I say NO because at the end of the day India did nothing of note during Sachin's era. It is extremely hard to overlook that simple point. xxx I am having a difficult time to gulp that statement, what did Sachin do for India I won't go into details of each games, the stats are there to see. I mean nobody wins so many MOMs for no reason But coming back to the core 1st reason is yours truly. I wouldn't be chatting cricket with you fine folks here, I started watching the game coz of him. I had no interest in this game and I couldn't stand it. Its a different story now Tendulkar to India, is what a new engine is to a old car. Cricket today in India, without tendulkar; wouldn't have been as popular with the dravids and gangulis. He took the flame and entered in a vibrant fashion; where people switched on their TV's just for Sachin He represented Indian cricket, Indian cricket meant Tendulkar Young cricketers in India who play the game now, ask them who their fav cricketer is, who they want to be - It's Tendulkar. Rookie bowlers dream of his wicket; they want his wicket on their resume He has brought hope to youngsters who can afford to think that it can be a career, parents no more hesitate from allowing that I am not only happy with Tendulkar, I think he has done more than enough. He deserves all the accolades and craze coz he brought on himself. He is India's sporting signature I didn't wanna bore you with this long post, I am man of short words and I rarely get into quote fest, I understand your viewpoint. This thread started of with Kapils comments who is another great and its inappropriate to insult either to prove a point
Bumper Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 155 NOT OUT ! How does that not qualify while KPs qualifies . Your reasons so far 1. Spinners 2. Did not result in a series win.(It did actyually but you dont buy that need to know why ?) So there ... lets beat this to death 155 is a good knock. Great knock ? No way. If that is deemed great what do u call the real great ones ? Restating my reasons that i stated earlier: 1) Aussie team has been beaten to pulp in India for 30 odd years. Losing a test to them more than winning it would be the surprise. The odds are no where near comparable 2) Atleast if the bowling attack were good, the degree of difficulty would be comparable. 155 was against a no-namer attack 3) Tendu walked in when we were 115/2. So even the pressure factor is not comparable. Why do u think this is comparable to the great knocks of Dravid or a Laxman or a Lara (even if u exclude the Pietersen innings which u dont rate) ?
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