Some quotes from Chankya niti.....

[varun]

I quite dont agree with that. Deception is part of everyday life' date=' in yours , mine and all others. Every large-scale excercise requires a certain degree of deception , voluntarily or involuntarily. Its a FACT.[/quote'] Sure we use deception, but on a smaller scale. What I meant was : in order to control a large populace, you gotta make sure they are loyal to you and not deceptive. If you want to make sure that there are people out there ready to give up their lives for you, would you want to inculcate a sense of idealism and jingoism in them, or would you want them to be reading chanakya-neeti.

[Ram]

If you want to make sure that there are people out there ready to give up their lives for you' date=' would you want to inculcate a sense of idealism and jingoism in them, or would you want them to be reading chanakya-neeti.[/quote'] The former for sure , yes... I was alluding to how we could compare these empires of the past to the present day phenomenons like say a big company of a government. Those ideals preached by Chanakya still hold true.

[varun]

Ah I see what you mean MM. Sure whenever you are an entity that have people under you and have to compete against other similar entities, these tactics would help. Just their implementation would be on a smaller scale, and it would have to be adapted to the situation. Btw, there was news around 5-6 years ago about the DRDO funding some major studies of the chanakya neeti in order to adapt it to the modern defense establishments. I'm not sure if it went through or not. But even if it did, I doubt if we'll hear a lot about it.

[CC1981]

The former for sure , yes...

Actually, i'd go for Chanakyaniti everytime over idealism and jingoism- idealism & jingoism is dime-a-dozen and even the most barbaric country has its share of nationalism,jingoism and idealism. Chanakya-niti is far better thought out, far more palatable and far more efficient a way than locking horns with your enemy in idealism and jingoism. For that would entail turning Indians into hindu version of the Taliban. Sure, it helps get rid of the 'outside' problem but you've just created a problem inside your own borders to get rid of that external threat. Chanakya advices against such 'influence the population to become more idealistic & jingoistic for nations's sake' policies- they all inevitably blow up in your face a few hundred years down the road.

[varun]

Actually' date=' i'd go for Chanakyaniti everytime over idealism and jingoism- idealism & jingoism is dime-a-dozen and even the most barbaric country has its share of nationalism,jingoism and idealism.[/quote'] Well jingoism isn't all about blowing yourself up or killing other people. It's about instilling a sense of loyalty among the populace, not in-sofar as a communist regime in which chairman-mao is everyone's dad, but enough that they are ready to fight for the survival of the community when faced with an external enemy. The relationship between an individual and his community is symbiotic, and it can be exploited by the rulers by introducing a bit of idealism. I doubt if you'd have a cohesive unit if they weren't united by one underlying cause.

[CC1981]

Well jingoism isn't all about blowing yourself up or killing other people. It's about instilling a sense of loyalty among the populace' date=' not in-sofar as a communist regime in which chairman-mao is everyone's dad, but enough that they are ready to fight for the survival of the community when faced with an external enemy.[/quote'] Jingoism is the kinda perspective you have from D_R and a few of his buddies here...the kind of nonsense propagated by RSS/VHP/SS, etc etc. Inorder to be a jinogist, one *HAS* to be a superiorist- believe in the superiority of his/her ways over the adversaries. That notion of superiority is seen through a prism of culture, accomplishments, continuacy of history, etc etc- all of which are nothing more than irrelevant chest-thumping tools, since all the above are symptoms/effects of the level of liberalism and free thinking allowed in the society. However, this is a dangerous train to get on, because jingoism is a train without brakes and that is what nazis of Germany, Fascists of Italy, etc proves. it is easier to switch-on/switch-off the chanakya-neeti mode, because then you are not driven by superiorist notions but through plain, cold hard logic. The difference between jingoists and chankya-neeti in indian context is this: A jingoist relies on 'muslim history of india', drums up/hypes up the accounts of genocide, pillage, destruction, etc etc. to whip up collective passions and use that to combat the threat, while a Chanakya-ist simply looks at the libertarian atmosphere of Dharmic philosophies, contrasts it with the autocratic atmosphere of Abrahamic philosophy and simply focusses on undermining Abrahamism due to its intellectually stifling nature and its resistance to change. One relies on whipping up passions that borders on cultural/racial superiority by distorting history(for these hindu superiorists NEVER praise the moderate muslims we've had as kings or citizens), the one simply looks at it from a 'effect of this today and in tomorrow' in a much more quantifiable and logical basis. This is why i think Chanakya-ism is better than jingoism but unfortunately, our hinduvta elements are too under-educated to realize this.

[Guest dada_rocks]

isis liye kahte hain original text parha karo bolo to chhapen ham agar sanskrit kuchh samajh mein aawat ho to

[CC1981]

isis liye kahte hain original text parha karo bolo to chhapen ham agar sanskrit kuchh samajh mein aawat ho to

Abey , the original text is written in Prakrit. Not devnagari. Neither i, nor you, nor even 99.999% of Indians today can read Prakrit and the few who can have already translated it to zillions of different languages many many centuries ago as well as today. Om Trambakam jajamahe is still the same damn sh!t whether you write it in English, hindi or bengali or Prakrit- just so long as you know what Om Trambakam jajamahe means, your understanding of that phrase is no better and no worse than some retard reading the 'original text'. This is almost deja-vu from history- funny thing that it was certain idiot (but powerful) Brahmins who were strictly opposed to breaking the fanatic dedication towards sanskrit like you advocate ( must be in the original script, must be in accord with panini, yadda yadda) and it was great thinkers like Buddha,Mahavira, etc. who advocated from my position and heralded the cultural and linguistic diversity explosion in ancient India.

[Guest dada_rocks]

bengali sanskrit :haha:wala speak for yourself ham pure original source se parhte hain.. sab tumhari tarah ponga pandit nahin hain...........

[Guest dada_rocks]

waise bengali sanskrit mein ye geeta ka first couplet kaise likhate hain zara batana ponga pandit "dharmkhsetre kurukshetre samveta yuyutsuvah mamakah pandawashchaiv kim kurwat sanjay" let us see what kind of rape bengali translation does to the original text:giggle:

[CC1981]

ham pure original source se parhte hain.

Err no, no you don't. Devnagari script isnt the original script for Sanskrit either. Kidhar se shuru kareen miyaan ? Lets go back to Indus valley days ? in that case, nobody in this world can read 'original sanskrit'. If we go back just 2500 years ago, all the stuff was written in Brahmi, not in devnagari script that you rather ignorantly think is 'original script'.And i can bet my bottom dollar that outside of a few thousand scholars in the academic circles(at best), nobody in rest of India can read Brahmi. Unless you can read Brahmi, your claim is false and if you claim you can, i'd like to see some proof for it.

let us see what kind of rape bengali translation does to the original text

And again, it is NOT bengali translation- it is sanskrit written in bengali. Just like Om trambakam jajamahe written in English doesnt make it any less legible or sensible than it written in Devnagari script. Bengali is a script- much like Devnagari or Gurumukhi or whatever....A language written in another script doesnt change the language but you have a tendency to talk about $hit you do not understand/know of. Just like there are different languages sharing a common script ( west european languages for eg), there are common languages who share different scripts- Sanskrit being the prime example of this- you find sanskrit transliteration in hindi, bengali, manipuri,orya, tamil,malayali, etc etc. but it ALL reads 'om trombokom jojamohe' when read out and its meanings are associated with sanskrit, not with bengali or orya or tamil or English or whatever. Since sanskrit was kept alive mostly through ritualistic practices, it is a common thing to see dying languages sharing several scripts, since its important for intonations but meaningless to the general population without translation. Even brahmins or moastic orders no longer converse in Sanskrit and have not done so for atleast the last 2500-2600 years of Indian history. The spread of prakrit and pali as the common tongue through most of the subcontinent is fairly well documented in Buddhist & Jain sources as well as by several hindu authors. Oh and another tidbit of wisdom for you: Even IF the Gita were to be translated to various current languages,Bengali Gita turns out to be the CLOSEST to Sanskrit in its form, translation and pronounciation. Because, incase you missed my point, here it is again: Suddho-bhaasha Bengali ( ie, archaic Bengali), which is still in spoken use today, is the closest living relative to classical sanskrit in the world. It is not your 'precious hindi or bhojpuri or maithili or whatever. Ironically, you are unwittingly proving yourself to be an idiot- you are one of the most prolific users of hindi phrases on this website, typed out in the latin alphabet. The meaning of your post is quite clear to yourself and to others who know hindi/maithili/bhojpuri etc. Indeed, i've typed out Bengali in the same latin alphabet and other bengali speakers have understood what i wrote perfectly. Yet, you rather ignorantly claim that somehow, the common Gita in bengal, written in bengali, is somehow 'raped' version of your 'shuddh sanskrit'. This is one issue you will find it hard to get your other chamchaas to agree with you, since even Bheemi or other morons of your type will disagree that their gita, written in kannadiga alphabet but saying the 'om trombokom jojamohe' is somehow a 'raped' version of your 'shuddh sanskrit' script. Nothing more than utter bakwaas and in line with your racist comments about Bengal before. But carry on- you do nothing more than expose your ignorance on almost every issue you touch on.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Bla bla bla.. why don't u put the correspodning verse instead of going on another round of verbal diarrohea in ur bengali script we will see how close or how far it's from the prakrit sanskrit..

[flute202020]

Looks like everybody is in agreement with Chanakyniti here, so let me be the devil's advocate. Consider the following points 1. According to many eminent historians, chanakya intrigues and less than honest politics, conspiracies, lack of trust in loyal employees was one of the reasons for the downfall of Mauryan empire. The royal palace became so much immersed in politics and intrigues that nobody trusted anybody and in one of the saddest moments in Indian history, King Ashoka's son was assasinated by his own commander in chief just a few days after Ashoka's death. 2. As an Indian who lived better part of his life in India and having migrated to west and having seen the system here, I can tell you one truth( atleast from my point of view) which is not appreciated by Indians. In general terms, I found general polulation in the west more trustworthy and more ethical. We seem to have internalised Chanakyaniti and pretty much every aspect of our life is polluted without regard to truth or ethics, the only priortiy being your immediate family. In contrast, eventhough christian religion lacks a strong intellectual and philosophic base, church is very successful in instilling good moral values, civic sense and a sense of braoder well being of the community. It is really simple, it is much more difficult to bribe a guy on the road in USA compared to a guy in India. we can invent all kinds of excuses to explain it away but the fact remains and this fact has a lot to do with the universal access to freedom, liberty and prosperity in large chunks of west.

[Gaurav]

church is very successful in instilling good moral values, civic sense and a sense of braoder well being of the community.

Nah! Not buying that. The freedom, liberty and prosperity that you are talking about has lot less to do with Christianity. Plus Europe is VERY different to USA when it comes to church and religion. If the Christian right had their way then lot of those freedom and liberties would disappear.

[CC1981]

Bla bla bla.. why don't u put the correspodning verse instead of going on another round of verbal diarrohea in ur bengali script we will see how close or how far it's from the prakrit sanskrit..

blablabla ? Is that all you gotto say after being proven wrong YET AGAIN ? Shayad aapke abhimaan ko kisi doosre par shraddha dena nahi aata. Anyways, your post again proves you to be a moron of the highest order who is arguing without understanding and is a dogmatic fool without cause. First off, what will a corresponding verse prove ? if you want one, here it is anyways : "Dhritarastra ivaca dharmakshetra kuru-kshetra samaveta yuyutsavah mamakah pandavas caiva kim akurvata sanjaya " Now, how does it matter if its written in English or bengali or in devnagari (hindi script), as long as you KNOW what the words mean ? As i said, your devnagari script (the script for hindi) is NOT the original script and neither is hindi the closest living relative of sanskrit language (bengali is). This is a fact proven by linguistic analysis. For two, there is no such thing as 'prakrit sanskrit'- prakrit was a DIFFERENT language from sanskrit, its vernacular form that evolved into pali and various other indic languages. You saying prakrit sanskrit is the biggest example of a ponga-pandit at work who doesnt know squat about sanskrit, languages or the gita. So good try pretending you know what you are talking about but you don't. Bottomline is- you reading a devnagari script sanskrit text does NOT make you a better authority on sanskrit as someone reading a bengali script sanskrit- given that bengali is the closest living language to sanskrit today, a case for the other way round can be made far easier. So much for your hindi superiorist ' i only read from the original text' lies/nonsense.

[flute202020]

Nah! Not buying that. The freedom' date=' liberty and prosperity that you are talking about has lot less to do with Christianity. Plus Europe is VERY different to USA when it comes to church and religion. If the Christian right had their way then lot of those freedom and liberties would disappear.[/quote'] gai ka dood, my comment about church is only tangential and eventhough we disagree about the reasons for the strong ethical, moral and civic values, my main point is that the general populations strong , straight forward values help in fostering good economic environment. In fact, a good, trust worthy environment is really good for economy rather than the intrigue filled, mistrust filled environment which is what chanakya niti will lead us to.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Whenever any religious folks say morality comes from religion ask them this question. Q. can you prove that before advent of religion on the scene people thought stealing was kosher, killing each other was kosher. Religion ham se hai ham religion se nahin, all that freaking morality attributed to religion comes from mankind's basic humane trait, hence religion should be thankful to human being not other way round.

[suma25]

"Oye' date=' yeh kaun hai?" I don´t know him. However, I sure my quotes are better than of his.[/quote']:haha: your Quote in your signature is definitely the best of them all . :tounge_smile:

[theguyinallblue]

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