The Dhoni era is over! Gauti is the new king

[bulbul]

I'm sorry but Gambhir and Dhoni aren't even in the same league in Tests. Even Dhoni fans will concede that. Kohli is a bit of a chilled out version of Smith. Have you seen Smith in his early days? Profanity was his best friend. And Kohli has always been a good leader. He won us a World Cup with simply 160 odd on board. He has done a good job for RCB too. I don't see anyone in the team who is even a contender.

sorry brah RCB is a win which wins or loses despit captian...it doesnt matter who is Captain here.. for all Kohli's aggressivenes you have to see his face when Gayle overthrowed one to boundary...nothing comes out of mouth :giggle: he can bad mouth only weaker players cant control the bigger guys

[lovish]

According to me the biggest mistake that dhoni did was come himself on feild at start of 18th over rather then sending bravo or morkel.. I mean what he did.. hit 2 faurs in which one was a edge.. ?? He scored 14 runs in 9 balls.. that's a crime in the final... In last match bravo had hit 30 off 10 and I am sure here too he would have done the same.. the moment dhoni came on feild I said "this idiotic person wants glory for himself but this foolishness has caused many matches to India and today too he is gifting the championship to KKR as now they have a chance to restrict them under 195 which is absolutely chasable" abd that's what exactly happened.... If he had used some mind and sent bravo then the total would have gone to 210 to 215 which was near to impossible to chase I would say gauti is far far better as a captain though dhoni has much better luck... one day they were out of tournament and other day they were in final... though KKR did all thr hardwork and thus deserved to win... so Congratz Gauti bhai :) :) My Signature ------------------------------------- One day, I will take it easy. Today won't be that day... -------------------------------------

[Raghav_12]

That series was not lost due to decision making' date=' rather due to failure on the part of players to simply play to the level required in an international game. It is not like he made poor selection choices, or did poor bowling changes or fielding choices. The batsman failed and the bowlers failed, period.[/quote'] Then why captain picks trophy when we win anything? What Dhoni had done in WC 2011 to even touch that trophy? Even Nehra had greater claim on that trpphy than MSD. You can't have it both ways. When team succeeds, it's Dhoni's captaincy and when team fails it's players fault. No captain in last 20 years or so, of my cricket watching, brought ignominy of the magnitude of 0-8 to country, even after playing much stronger teams of WI and Aus. Forget about captaincy, Dhoni doesn't deserve a place in playing XI. Let him fly helicopters in Chepauk playing 20-20.

[kubrickian]

then why when batsmen batted well and bowler bowled well credit goes to Captain :dontknow:

I dont know why you keep repeating this. The credit goes to the whole team as well as the captain when they are doing well. Was Ganguly praised for Laxman's 281 ? Was Dhoni praised for Sachin or Dravid's centuries or Zaheer's bowling ? But the captain has his role to play and he gets his own credit when a team wins.

[kubrickian]

Then why captain picks trophy when we win anything. What Dhoni had done in WC 2011 to even touch that trophy. Even Nehra had greater claim on that trpphy than MSD. You can't have it both ways. When team succeeds, it's Dhoni's captaincy and when team fails it's players fault. No captain in last 20 years or so, of my cricket watching, brought ignominy of the magnitude of 0-8 to country, even after playing much stronger teams of WI and Aus. Forget about captaincy, Dhoni doesn't deserve a place in playing XI. Let him fly helicopters in Chepauk playing 20-20.

You are just seeking to make someone a scapegoat instead of trying to find a solution. Its obvious the team has failed with respect to batting and bowling. That has to be addressed instead of knee jerk reactions like sacking the captain or coach etc. That wont improve anything.

[Raghav_12]

You are just seeking to make someone a scapegoat instead of trying to find a solution. Its obvious the team has failed with respect to batting and bowling. That has to be addressed instead of knee jerk reactions like sacking the captain or coach etc. That wont improve anything.

Changing of captain has to be part of solution. Forget about match tactics etc, he simply failed to keep team united. Makes irresponsible statements in media. First he has to earn his place in test team. Saha was looking much solid than Dhoni in the only test he played on Australian tour, both in batting and wicket keeping. Then why we can't use Saha on long term basis?

[Sidhoni]

Then why captain picks trophy when we win anything? What Dhoni had done in WC 2011 to even touch that trophy? Even Nehra had greater claim on that trpphy than MSD. You can't have it both ways. When team succeeds, it's Dhoni's captaincy and when team fails it's players fault. No captain in last 20 years or so, of my cricket watching, brought ignominy of the magnitude of 0-8 to country, even after playing much stronger teams of WI and Aus. Forget about captaincy, Dhoni doesn't deserve a place in playing XI. Let him fly helicopters in Chepauk playing 20-20.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

[yoda]

then why when batsmen batted well and bowler bowled well credit goes to Captain :dontknow:

Well, we don't just say he won this or that, we also talk about what he did well, picking the right combo of bowlers, set aggressive field placings, etc to talk about captaincy.

Then why captain picks trophy when we win anything? What Dhoni had done in WC 2011 to even touch that trophy? Even Nehra had greater claim on that trpphy than MSD.

He delivered the biggest blow in the finals as a batsman, so deserved to pick the trophy just on that basis.

You can't have it both ways. When team succeeds, it's Dhoni's captaincy and when team fails it's players fault.

I agree you can't have it both ways, which is exactly both the praise and blame needs to be laid with deliberation, not just based on wins and losses.

No captain No team in last 20 years or so, of my cricket watching, brought ignominy of the magnitude of 0-8 to country, even after playing much stronger teams of WI and Aus. Forget about captaincy, Dhoni doesn't deserve a place in playing XI. Let him fly helicopters in Chepauk playing 20-20.

Corrected. BTW, I am not saying we need to continue with him as captain, all I am saying let's not give a pass to everyone else and blame it all on him. The test team needs wholesale changes, not just change of captain. Aging non performing Maharathis need to be dropped first.

[Raghav_12]

Well, we don't just say he won this or that, we also talk about what he did well, picking the right combo of bowlers, set aggressive field placings, etc to talk about captaincy. Are you serious? He delivered the biggest blow in the finals as a batsman, even if you think he deserved zero credit as a captain. I agree you can't have it both ways, which is exactly both the praise and blame needs to be laid with deliberation, not just based on wins and losses. Corrected.

Yes, I am serious. It was Gambhir who took team out of woods in final and Dhoni scored when it was easy going for team. You can see the break up of Dhoni's runs in that innings and would see that most of his runs came when team score was already 200+. It was horrendous decision to award MOTM to Dhoni ahead of Gambhir, which Gambhir rightfully is bitter about.

[yoda]

Yes' date=' I am serious. It was Gambhir who took team out of woods in final and Dhoni scored when it was easy going for team. You can see the break up of Dhoni's runs in that innings and would see that most of his runs came when team score was already 200+. It was horrendous decision to award MOTM to Dhoni ahead of Gambhir, which Gambhir rightfully is bitter about.[/quote'] Ok, let's backtrack to your prev comment. You said he didn't even deserve to lay his hands on the cup and you are talking about who deserved MOTM, which is subjective. Let me ask you again, are you serious? :winky: Talking about Dhoni and WC 2011 isn't going to help your case regarding the 0-8 drubbing and whether he deserves to continue as the test captain. One was the highlight of Indian cricket in 25 years and the other the worst in history. There is no need to belittle his contribution to the WC 2011 achievement to make a point about the 0-8.

[achilles]

Then why captain picks trophy when we win anything? What Dhoni had done in WC 2011 to even touch that trophy? Even Nehra had greater claim on that trpphy than MSD. You can't have it both ways. When team succeeds, it's Dhoni's captaincy and when team fails it's players fault. No captain in last 20 years or so, of my cricket watching, brought ignominy of the magnitude of 0-8 to country, even after playing much stronger teams of WI and Aus. Forget about captaincy, Dhoni doesn't deserve a place in playing XI. Let him fly helicopters in Chepauk playing 20-20.

Another point I'd like to have- Dhoni shirks responsibility, not just in Tests and ODIs but also in T20s. He doesn't like to come out and bat while the going is tough, in my opinion. He likes to come out early or promote himself, mostly when his team is doing well or the openers have set the innings the match for the team. Not the hallmark of a good player. Most recent example being the Playoffs and the finals- In the playoff, the team was in tatters and instead of coming out to guide him team out like a responsible captain, he sent in Badrinath. In the Finals, when the game was set, he promoted himself to come and have a slog when the situation was a bit of a joke, really. If you look at Dhoni since 2009, this is what he has mostly done... politics of convenience. He is no different from Ganguly in that respect.

[Raghav_12]

Ok, let's backtrack to your prev comment. You said he didn't even deserve to lay his hands on the cup and you are talking about who deserved MOTM, which is subjective. Let me ask you again, are you serious? :winky: Talking about Dhoni and WC 2011 isn't going to help your case regarding the 0-8 drubbing and whether he deserves to continue as the test captain. One was the highlight of Indian cricket in 25 years and the other the worst in history. There is no need to belittle his contribution to the WC 2011 achievement to make a point about the 0-8.

WC 2011 came as an example to show that when Captain deserves accolades to wins that team achieve than captain should be held responsible for teams failures as well. I am not belittling WC 2011 achievement, I am just belittling Dhoni's contribution in that. :cantstop: . I made statement that MOTM was horrendous decision, how come that means that he was atleast contnder for MOTM award, which you seem to imply? Seriouly speaking, many don't value that innings from Dhoni much.

[yoda]

WC 2011 came as an example to show that when Captain deserves accolades to wins that team achieve than captain should be held responsible for teams failures as well. I am not belittling WC 2011 achievement, I am just belittling Dhoni's contribution in that. :cantstop: . I made statement that MOTM was horrendous decision, how come that means that he was atleast contnder for MOTM award, which you seem to imply? Seriouly speaking, many don't value that innings from Dhoni much.

:hysterical: I think I have read enough. :hatsoff:

[Sidhoni]

Another point I'd like to have- Dhoni shirks responsibility, not just in Tests and ODIs but also in T20s. He doesn't like to come out and bat while the going is tough, in my opinion. He likes to come out early or promote himself, mostly when his team is doing well or the openers have set the innings the match for the team. Not the hallmark of a good player. Most recent example being the Playoffs and the finals- In the playoff, the team was in tatters and instead of coming out to guide him team out like a responsible captain, he sent in Badrinath. In the Finals, when the game was set, he promoted himself to come and have a slog when the situation was a bit of a joke, really. If you look at Dhoni since 2009, this is what he has mostly done... politics of convenience. He is no different from Ganguly in that respect.

And what about the WC final? He could have easily sent Yuvi but he took the responsibility and took us home.

[Sidhoni]

WC 2011 came as an example to show that when Captain deserves accolades to wins that team achieve than captain should be held responsible for teams failures as well. I am not belittling WC 2011 achievement, I am just belittling Dhoni's contribution in that. :cantstop: . I made statement that MOTM was horrendous decision, how come that means that he was atleast contnder for MOTM award, which you seem to imply? Seriouly speaking, many don't value that innings from Dhoni much.

:haha::haha:

[Needforspeed]

WC 2011 came as an example to show that when Captain deserves accolades to wins that team achieve than captain should be held responsible for teams failures as well. I am not belittling WC 2011 achievement, I am just belittling Dhoni's contribution in that. :cantstop: . I made statement that MOTM was horrendous decision, how come that means that he was atleast contnder for MOTM award, which you seem to imply? Seriouly speaking, many don't value that innings from Dhoni much.

:hysterical::hysterical: Who is this Many guy who doesnt value that Dhoni innings?

[achilles]

And what about the WC final? He could have easily sent Yuvi but he took the responsibility and took us home.

So you do concede that what he did err in the IPL recently. As for the final, that is one instance where he displayed some bravery. However, do you think he is the kind of player who can play just 1 match in a series? Is he competing with Vijay? Is it wrong to expect him to consistently perform? I'm sure you will also agree that it is not wise to take singles in slog overs.

[vamos_rafa]

I'm sorry but Gambhir and Dhoni aren't even in the same league in Tests. Even Dhoni fans will concede that. Kohli is a bit of a chilled out version of Smith. Have you seen Smith in his early days? Profanity was his best friend. And Kohli has always been a good leader. He won us a World Cup with simply 160 odd on board. He has done a good job for RCB too. I don't see anyone in the team who is even a contender.

Yes. Even I agree to that. but, what I meant was that even batters like MS and Ashwin looked better than him in the tours. what's the point in being leagues above but if you can't score? He's been woefully short of runs in abroad tours now. I have seen smith in the earlier days. Yes profanity was his friend but he did not look as clueless as Kohli did in the IPL when he was made the captain. I know you would say that it was just the IPL, but it still shows up your skills as a leader. And for someone who actually has captained a team before, it was disappointing. We have only 2 contendrs and they are fighting it out :--D

[Sidhoni]

So you do concede that what he did err in the IPL recently. As for the final, that is one instance where he displayed some bravery. However, do you think he is the kind of player who can play just 1 match in a series? Is he competing with Vijay? Is it wrong to expect him to consistently perform? I'm sure you will also agree that it is not wise to take singles in slog overs.

CSK has the best run-rate in the last 5 overs in the IPL. And MSD was batting in the last 5 most of the time. For the earlier part, do you wanna compare performing in a WC final to performing in a IPL final? Really?

[Sundar88]

How did Gambhir contribute more to the WC final win than Dhoni? He plays in the team as a specialist top order batsman, of course he is expected to negotiate the early stages of the game better. He played well but gifted his wicket away at a crucial time by attempting to slog when it was not necessary at all. For that reason alone I'd not have given him the MoM even if he ended up with more runs, moments like that can sometimes turn an entire game around. It's unfair to say he's a better leader than Dhoni based on one IPL, I'm pretty sure he has led DD before in Sehwag's absence, didn't do anything remarkable. He led KKR last year too and still lost with nearly the same team and Dhoni still won. Even this year they would have lost if Bisla hadn't played the innings of his life. Hell, even Kallis managed to not choke and actually performed well with both bat and ball. Like Gambhir himself said, the captain's only as good as his team. I've not been a fan of MSD's captaincy either for the last year or so but I don't think GG is any better. He just had very good bowlers at his disposal. David Hussey was by far the best captain for me in this IPL because he had nearly the same resources that Gilchrist had before he got injured and still managed to win enough games to almost qualify for the playoffs after so many losses. Had DD replaced Sehwag with Mahela they may have won the whole thing, but I digress. My point is, if you took Narine out of the picture KKR wouldn't have made the playoffs.