Mid-day meal: after muslim kids it's turn of upper caste men to be an a$$

[Guest dada_rocks]

No one, except ourselves are falling in the propaganda of Islamists and evangelicals. Tell me, how many people among Hindus have Manusmriti in their house?? disgusting thing is that, Islamists and EJs invoke manusmriti more often than we Hindus. Why we are falling to their propaganda. If we ourselves will not get a correct view, how we can expect that we can be saved from those "peaceful" Religions monotheistic charms? Caste is a "Practice" by only illiterate and uneducated people mostly in remore villages of India....Caste practice has been in steady decline....in present time I can hardly see caste practice being enforced in cities like Mumbai??...so why Islamists cannot see these...If caste was such an eternal law, why all Hindus including those educated one living in Cities are not practicing. Heck, even p-secs like Arjun Singh practice caste sytem by deviding Indians on the line of reservation and none of us seem to notice this. And yeah, for those who go on ridiculing VHP should know that VHP has rejected the Caste system of Manu-Smriti.

I have said this so many times to these gentleman who believe in eyewash theory.. This is classic case of diluting the bite of argument against islamic scriptures.. For zillioht time manu-smriti is no hindu scripture it's grabage. Reservation in modern times is the single most thing strengthening caste-menace whihc we have deconstitutionalized. These guys I am afraid most probably never even went through VHP's manual, or RSS's manual.. I have been the member of RSS it's most caste-less organization In India. Our sangh -ssanchalal used to be mallah ( fisherman caset) and we used to touch his feet everyday. These guys are victim of psec propganada that's all. Nobody cared nobody asked nobody bothered...... Go to far and deep jungles RSS's vanvasi kalyan projects is working tirelessly where none of psecs bother to venture.......

[sandtest]

"Shrutis" and "Smritis" is the main criteria by which scriptures in Sanatan dharma are classified. Vedas, Upanishads are under Shrutis and considered as infallible, while Smritis are free to evolve with time....that is the beauty of Sanatan Dharma it is free to evolve.. Tomorrow if another Avatar of Bhagwan appears on earth, Smritis will be written for His Avatar. Manu-Smritis were guidelines for Kings to base their laws on. But manu-Smirits cannot be taken as infallible....Laws change with time....a few Manu-Smritis among others may not be relevant today. If any of the books are to be taken as infallible --they are "shrutis" i.e. Vedas and Upanishads. Also India's Hindu code of legal system borrows a lot from Manu-Smriti while removing the caste and gender biase from original source, that means, we have already evolved with time and casteism is banned legally. Why the hell we Hindus can't understand this simple fact??

[Guest dada_rocks]

Why the hell would i lie ? I , unlike you my friend , have no agenda here. I call a spade a spade , irrespective of whether the "spade" is Hindu or muslim. Please go and check the other threads where i have openly labasted Muslim terrorists. And i dunno how you expect me to provide evidence of Modi's wrong doing. What do you want me to do , provide you with a taped telephonic conversation with Modi or something ? At best , i can provide you with news articles and clippings. You are free to accept or deny it , but dont be naive enough to say - " where is the evidence ?" I am not the CBI. the truth lies out there , for everybody to know and it is imprinted on EVERY dead body of the Godhra riots. Yea , keep asking us of something we cant give. The truth as i said , is out there for all to see. The election victory that BJP masterminded was on the dead-bodies of innocent women and children , both Hindu and Muslim.

No lecture on I am sthis or that... you were caught lying here u said Modi went on rath yatra and that resulted into post-godhara and I showed u nothing like that happened .. now accept that was baloney of worst kind and spare me lecture on what u are.. News article where in the article itself it sayd CM has denied ssaying anythig llike that has zero credibility.. U can't parade that as evidence.. This crap of election victory so and so master-minded on dead bodies we hear after every riots it's nothing new and that remains an unsubstantiated allegation nothing more nothing less. Of course riots to fortify public opinion on religious lines but that doesn't mean anythign as far as culpability of MOdi in riots are concerned.. So far u have produced zilch on that count.

[Guest dada_rocks]

casteism is banned legally and no hindu is burning anyone aliveover this development in India's constitution ************************ that's the bottom line and then to expect people to castigate hindus in same vein as ROPers ( who still cling to most vile aspect of their scripture) at best remains a psec attempt of eyewash in my book.

[Ram]

Excuse me , i do sincerely hope you could read what i post. Just in case , this is what i said "Oh comon DR ! You dont have Modi going around on Swabhimaan Yaatraas around Gujrat , releasing disturbing pictures of the Godhra train massacre victims on a CD now do you ? And ofcourse , they might make such speeches now too , but only the environment is not as vitriolic as it was then. Modi and his cohorts used that atmosphere to whip up communal tension and polarize the people. In my eyes , Modi , Togadia and his VHP friends are as much as criminals as a Bin Laden or Mullah Omar. " where in the hell have i mentioned that "Modi went on rath yatra and that resulted into post-godhara" ? Dont manipulate my statements to suit your own needs. I am not into such below the belt debating, unfortunately. I shall refrain from engaging you again if i feel you are deliberately mis-using what i said just to score stupid personal points. "This crap of election victory so and so master-minded on dead bodies we hear after every riots it's nothing new and that remains an unsubstantiated allegation nothing more nothing less. Of course riots to fortify public opinion on religious lines but that doesn't mean anythign as far as culpability of MOdi in riots are concerned.. So far u have produced zilch on that count." That doesnt mean it isnt true. And Modi was ofcourse culpable . Being the CM of the state , he was directly responsible in maintaining law and order , which he didnt.

[Ram]

And quoting the same Amnesty International report that i had given to you , it says "Since the beginning of the intifada in September 2000, Israeli-Palestinian violence has spiralled. Israeli forces have killed some 4,000 Palestinians, most of them unarmed civilians and including some 800 children. Many were killed in air strikes, artillery shelling and other attacks against refugee camps and densely populated residential areas throughout the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT). Others were extrajudicially executed in attacks which killed scores of bystanders" Go on , keep defending this mindless bloody invasion.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Excuse me , i do sincerely hope you could read what i post. Just in case , this is what i said "Oh comon DR ! You dont have Modi going around on Swabhimaan Yaatraas around Gujrat , releasing disturbing pictures of the Godhra train massacre victims on a CD now do you ? And ofcourse , they might make such speeches now too , but only the environment is not as vitriolic as it was then. Modi and his cohorts used that atmosphere to whip up communal tension and polarize the people. In my eyes , Modi , Togadia and his VHP friends are as much as criminals as a Bin Laden or Mullah Omar. " where in the hell have i mentioned that "Modi went on rath yatra and that resulted into post-godhara" ? "This crap of election victory so and so master-minded on dead bodies we hear after every riots it's nothing new and that remains an unsubstantiated allegation nothing more nothing less. Of course riots to fortify public opinion on religious lines but that doesn't mean anythign as far as culpability of MOdi in riots are concerned.. So far u have produced zilch on that count." That doesnt mean it isnt true. And Modi was ofcourse culpable . Being the CM of the state , he was directly responsible in maintaining law and order , which he didnt.

We have given national awards to a movie whihch claims Hindus actually planned those riot in advance and godhara just happeened.. Parzaniya.. enough said.. Again there is no evidence modi distributed those CDs. Exactly same as there is no evidence that Laloo distributed those post-godhara CDs in Bihar Still u produced nothign threw allegation and then are claiming modi is culpable.. too bad court of India doesn't function on whims like you.. People belive in tooth-fairy too and it;s their prerogative but if u call someone criminal basic decency demands u better produce some evidence.. And yes calling it like it's is no cime.. they do havemuch higher birth rate that rest and I will accept I have seen Modi saying that panch-panchis thing in video rest of the garbage I am yet to see in any shape or form other than in editorials..

[sandtest]

In my eyes , Modi , Togadia and his VHP friends are as much as criminals as a Bin Laden or Mullah Omar. "

Dear marirs, when did these people possessed any "weapons" , illegally??... How come you can place them with likes of Bin laden.....damn are we Indians so much brainwashed by evangelically controlled media that we can't differentiate between a democratically elected Chief Minister and a terrorist. OBL and Bin Mollah Omar are most wanted even in India...so pray tell me, if the above people are same as them, so why GoI and p-sec commie administration of India is not arresting them.....*sigh*

[Guest dada_rocks]

And quoting the same Amnesty International report that i had given to you , it says "Since the beginning of the intifada in September 2000, Israeli-Palestinian violence has spiralled. Israeli forces have killed some 4,000 Palestinians, most of them unarmed civilians and including some 800 children. Many were killed in air strikes, artillery shelling and other attacks against refugee camps and densely populated residential areas throughout the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT). Others were extrajudicially executed in attacks which killed scores of bystanders" Go on , keep defending this mindless bloody invasion.

War is bad people die, if we start going by UN words no country will remain saint.. Do u want me to pull out how our very own India fares in their book.. Bottomline they are defedning their country people will die in it noone is denying that.. Yes there is nothing like paensitne it never was an independetn state it;s new concoction all those areas whihc they are claimign to be palestine was part of the neighbouring state whihc attackes israel togetehr and lost in war those territories.. Suddenly now those areas become their palestine....... I am sure u have not read fatah's charter their is no mention of those socaleld occupied territoies in that they still are gunning for main israel. I ask you why wud any country who won a war against it neughbours who refuse to accept its existance return those won ground in war without bare minimum assuracnce of those vanquished won;t come again after marshalling resources.. Bare minimum they are asking for is the acceptance of israel's existance but that's too much but they do expect israel to return all the gain territories.... It wud be like we going in war against pakistan and pakistan having the state policy of w not accepting India claiming it to be part of pakistan and india despite winning the war returning the pakistani territory without even the assurance of henceforth ti will accept the legitimacy of nationa state india.. yes that's how stupid is the demand of palestine whatevet that freaking word means..

[Ram]

Again there is no evidence modi distributed those CDs. Exactly same as there is no evidence that Laloo distributed those post-godhara CDs in Bihar

Yea, we shall soon see a clip of Modi going house to house and giving those CDs. What a stupid statement to make ! Ofcourse he would have covered his bases. And if BJP didnt distribute those CDs , then who did ? the communists ? And here is DIRECT proof the election commission taking BJP to task for distributing the CDs in election states. And Modi is a BJP CM isnt he ? http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/rssfeeds/1884029.cms

Still u produced nothign threw allegation and then are claiming modi is culpable.. too bad court of India doesn't function on whims like you.. People belive in tooth-fairy too and it;s their prerogative but if u call someone criminal basic decency demands u better produce some evidence..

Haha.. which riot has ever seen any convictions ? Be it the Sikh riots of 1984 , the 1992 Mumbai riots or the post Godhra gujrat riots ? No convictions doesnt mean no criminals. There have been many accounts where Gujrati police officers have said how they was delay in deployment of forces. If you dont believe me , here you go http://hrw.org/reports/2002/india/India0402-03.htm Its an offical report by Human rights watch , on how the delay in deployment only helped in helping the rioters. Read it. I have produced , evidence after evidence , not from any crappy biased paper , but from respected organizations like "The Hindu" , Human rights watch , Amnesty international. I would really like your responses to them

[Ram]

War is bad people die' date=' if we start going by UN words no country will remain saint.. Do u want me to pull out how our very own India fares in their book.. Bottomline they are defedning their country people will die in it noone is denying that..[/quote'] Yea , you defend a country by sending State of the art tanks into refugee camps full of innocent people and massacre them. By firing surface to air missle into civilian areas , by incurring into areas just to kill people. How wonderful ! As i told , if you are biased enough to defend an invasion , then i have nothing else to say about it

Yes there is nothing like paensitne it never was an independetn state it;s new concoction all those areas whihc they are claimign to be palestine was part of the neighbouring state whihc attackes israel togetehr and lost in war those territories.. Suddenly now those areas become their palestine....... I am sure u have not read fatah's charter their is no mention of those socaleld occupied territoies in that they still are gunning for main israel.

Forget history. Come to the present. Why would Israel regularly incur into Gaza and west bank , in the name of going after terrorists and kill innocent people ?

I ask you why wud any country who won a war against it neughbours who refuse to accept its existance return those won ground in war without bare minimum assuracnce of those vanquished won;t come again after marshalling resources.. Bare minimum they are asking for is the acceptance of israel's existance but that's too much but they do expect israel to return all the gain territories....

Whether Palestinians accept Israel as a nation or not is not the question. Will Israel allow the existance of palestinian people is the question BTW , did you read the report by Amnesy international ? I need your comments on that before we go further on this.

[Guest dada_rocks]

it has seen conviction most recently bhagalpur riots..... Even those CDs had nothing which is incorrect....... ahah election commisison same election commssion which was looking elsewhere when laloo was distributing post-godhara cds.. anyway whatever make su feel better btw u are still to accept ur blantant lying about modi yatra resulting into post-godhara.. HUman rights watch what's next teesta setalavad's report.. Respected organization like "the Hindu" are u kididng yourself.. that paper is anythign but respected at besta pinko toilet paper..these all are akin to baseless editorials.. what's stopping these indidivudla if they really think they have evidence from going to some court.. they know they are farting and only place that garbage will pass as evidence is in some leftist paper.. See in my book from now on in matters fo Modi u remain a liar.. in only verifiable thing u have been caught lying and refused to accept that.. and u have been trumpeting u don;t have agenda..:giggle:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Yea , you defend a country by sending State of the art tanks into refugee camps full of innocent people and massacre them. By firing surface to air missle into civilian areas , by incurring into areas just to kill people. How wonderful ! As i told , if you are biased enough to defend an invasion , then i have nothing else to say about it Forget history. Come to the present. Why would Israel regularly incur into Gaza and west bank , in the name of going after terrorists and kill innocent people ? Whether Palestinians accept Israel as a nation or not is not the question. Will Israel allow the existance of palestinian people is the question BTW , did you read the report by Amnesy international ? I need your comments on that before we go further on this.

Refugee cams: boy kids are armed to teeth there and it's refugee camp.. Israel goes into gaza because to nab those maniacs who continuusly lob katusha rockets..... exactly why indian army is parked in kashmir it;s not that hard to understand.... It's both ways, israeli PM has accpted palestine there have bene a treaty which gave them 97% of the land they were asking for what more evidence u want of israel's sincertiy.. nwo find me even one party from the other side which accepts israel's existance.. .

[Ram]

it has seen conviction most recently bhagalpur riots..... Even those CDs had nothing which is incorrect....... ahah election commisison same election commssion which was looking elsewhere when laloo was distributing post-godhara cds.. anyway whatever make su feel better btw u are still to accept ur blantant lying about modi yatra resulting into post-godhara.. HUman rights watch what's next teesta setalavad's report.. Respected organization like "the Hindu" are u kididng yourself.. that paper is anythign but respected at besta pinko toilet paper..these all are akin to baseless editorials.. what's stopping these indidivudla if they really think they have evidence from going to some court.. they know they are farting and only place that garbage will pass as evidence is in some leftist paper.. See in my book from now on in matters fo Modi u remain a liar.. in only verifiable thing u have been caught lying and refused to accept that.. and u have been trumpeting u don;t have agenda..:giggle:

Its obvious you have run out ammunition to sustain this argument any further and hence have resorted to this " You are a liar" personal abuse. Sorry my friend, try as you might , i shall not indulge in such name calling. That is simply not me. And yea , i have categorically shown how it is you that has actually manipulated my statement and shouted "you are liar , you are a liar" . So , I really wonder , whos the real liar here. So , you wont take reports from Human rights Watch , Amnesty International and "The Hindu' , some of the world renowned organization for their fairness and unbiased reporting. When you fail to face FACTS and run away , there is no point really. And i still havent got your reactions to those reports on Israel occupation of palestine and the delay in the deployment of forces in Gujrat. Am waiting..

[Ram]

Refugee cams: boy kids are armed to teeth there and it's refugee camp.. Israel goes into gaza because to nab those maniacs who continuusly lob katusha rockets..... exactly why indian army is parked in kashmir it;s not that hard to understand.... It's both ways' date=' israeli PM has accpted palestine there have bene a treaty which gave them 97% of the land they were asking for what more evidence u want of israel's sincertiy.. nwo find me even one party from the other side which accepts israel's existance.. .[/quote'] Why do you still keep harboring on stupid technicalities like " Israel accepted Palestine , The palestinian terrorists havent reciprocated " sort of stuff , when it is catergorically proven that it is Israel's continued occupation of palestinian land that is root cause of all the problems.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Let me get it straight u called Modi-yatara fannd post-godhara didn't you.. if u have not edited that post must be lying here still I showed you there was no yatra like that.. riots happedn within 24 hours and if u had any idea of logistics wud not have said in first place because yatra do nto happen on drop of hat.. either u are misinformed or lying.. pick one.. Editorial this or that report in pinko papers have been many .. I will find u equl number of editoprial of opposite hue may be not equal because there are nto much right-wing english media in place. Thes are not evidence these do convince the already convinced ones like you but if u want these things to hold in eyes of an unbiassed u will have to produce evidence am sorry to say reports editorial all these are nto eveidence unless they result into the bare minimum which is charging.. I am not even talkking about conviction here just charging of the individual.. You do know u got nothing on that count.. so riot= cases don;t result into conviction heck at least cases get registered for that u don;t need much just prelimnary evidence supporting ur claim.. Needless to say nnot even a single case exists against Modi conviction question arises later.. YOu want me to read UN report from which camp katusha rocket was lobbed in recent war.. What will be in that report anyway these many individual hapless died.. heck these reports are always stacked against stronger paty what's new in it.. UN report after report says Indian army is blood thirsty rapist am I supposed to buy that garbage too. No I dodn;t bother to read those craps anymore have read enough to know fact from fiction facts are these 48: whole arba world attacked israel 67: again whole arab neighbours attacked israel it has had enough went on offensive now the vanquished are shedding crocodile tears advocating their saintliness, while all the time stickng to the dictum of they will attempt further attack when and if they garner resources. Israel accepts their existance they do not.. israel gave them 97% of territory whihc it won in war not from palestine( nothign llike that ever existed anyway) but from neighbouring countries btu that's not enough ....... anyway it;s not going anywhere u won;t produce evidence I won't settle for anythign less before castigating anyone so good nite

[Guest dada_rocks]

Why do you still keep harboring on stupid technicalities like " Israel accepted Palestine ' date=' The palestinian terrorists havent reciprocated " sort of stuff , when it is catergorically proven that it is Israel's continued occupation of palestinian land that is root cause of all the problems.[/quote'] You need to look at the meaning of word root in dictionary.. because whenever I go in real root u come up wiht forget history.. Why did israel occupy socalled occupied territory that's where root lies ......... Pick one whether we are discussing root thereby history or present scenario I will oblige this contant vaccilation fo your form one to another sounds churlish to me.. Root is arba attacked hence they lost territory, if they hadn;t attacked they wud still be the lord of those territories and socaleld laestinains crimnal wud still have been blowing schools in israel like they used to before 67.... if u want present sceanrio then status is this: isral has gven them 97% of what they asked they refused.. Israelrecently have pulled oout of some areas all ti got in return was katusha rickets being fired from those territories daily.. One party stronger I mught say is maklign all the concession where other remaisn headstrong and smart alec like you come and castigate the former..

[Ram]

Let me get it straight u called Modi-yatara fannd post-godhara didn't you.. if u have not edited that post must be lying here still I showed you there was no yatra like that.. riots happedn within 24 hours and if u had any idea of logistics wud not have said in first place because yatra do nto happen on drop of hat.. either u are misinformed or lying.. pick one..

Show me ONE post of mine in which i have said what you have claimed i told Modi's Yatras fanned the riots . I have VERY CLEARLY only said his Yatras helped in increasing the communal divide. And yes , I have not edited any post of mine either. We could call in the mods to check this if you want. And if they do confirm i didnt edit any such posts and you cant find any of my posts where you claimed i told so and so , what does that mean then ? Do i then have the right to call you a liar then ? Ofcourse i wont. We arent here pass judgments on each other's character. We are here for constructive debating. Lets stick to that.

Editorial this or that report in pinko papers have been many .. I will find u equl number of editoprial of opposite hue may be not equal because there are nto much right-wing english media in place.

These are NOT editorials. There are official reports of authorized fact finding committees. I am not quoting you some stupid newspapers. I am quoting some world renowned organizations , known for their fairness. Yet , you fail to acknowledge them.

Thes are not evidence these do convince the already convinced ones like you but if u want these things to hold in eyes of an unbiassed u will have to produce evidence am sorry to say reports editorial all these are nto eveidence unless they result into the bare minimum which is charging.. I am not even talkking about conviction here just charging of the individual.. You do know u got nothing on that count.. so riot= cases don;t result into conviction heck at least cases get registered for that u don;t need much just prelimnary evidence supporting ur claim.. Needless to say nnot even a single case exists against Modi conviction question arises later..

Nor does a single case exist against the Congress gove of 1984 , or the Maharashtra govt of 1992. Does that mean they are all innocent. No cases/convictions DOES NOT mean no criminals.

YOu want me to read UN report from which camp katusha rocket was lobbed in recent war.. What will be in that report anyway these many individual hapless died.. heck these reports are always stacked against stronger paty what's new in it.. UN report after report says Indian army is blood thirsty rapist am I supposed to buy that garbage too. No I dodn;t bother to read those craps anymore have read enough to know fact from fiction facts are these 48: whole arba world attacked israel 67: again whole arab neighbours attacked israel it has had enough went on offensive now the vanquished are shedding crocodile tears advocating their saintliness, while all the time stickng to the dictum of they will attempt further attack when and if they garner resources. Israel accepts their existance they do not.. israel gave them 97% of territory whihc it won in war not from palestine( nothign llike that ever existed anyway) but from neighbouring countries btu that's not enough ....... anyway it;s not going anywhere u won;t produce evidence I won't settle for anythign less before castigating anyone so

You are defending the indefensible here. There is nothing more to be said on this point atleast.

good nite

Good night to you too ! :regular_smile:

[Ram]

Dear marirs, when did these people possessed any "weapons" , illegally??... How come you can place them with likes of Bin laden.....damn are we Indians so much brainwashed by evangelically controlled media that we can't differentiate between a democratically elected Chief Minister and a terrorist. OBL and Bin Mollah Omar are most wanted even in India...so pray tell me, if the above people are same as them, so why GoI and p-sec commie administration of India is not arresting them.....*sigh*

Sandtest , lets refrain from indulging in technicalities such as " they havent been arrested , they dont have arms, so they are innocent" kind of thing. And why didnt Goi not arrest them yet ? Simple , they WERE the Goi when the criminal acts masterminded by them happened. And when there has EVER been a single conviction in India in a riot case ? Pray tell me. And i am no evangelically brainwashed guy. I am a proud Hindu. And it is for the Hindu deaths that happened during the Gujrat riots that i feel for too.

[sandtest]

Sandtest ' date=' lets refrain from indulging in [b']technicalities such as " they havent been arrested , they dont have arms, so they are innocent" kind of thing. And why didnt Goi not arrest them yet ? Simple , they WERE the Goi when the criminal acts masterminded by them happened. And when there has EVER been a single conviction in India in a riot case ? Pray tell me. .

Firstly, we have to get it right that, there is difference bewteen Political maneuvoring attributed to crime and terrorist activities against the nation. YOU just in one plain sentence placed a democratically elected Chief Minister in the same place as likes of Osama, Zawahiri and Mullah Omar. I couldn't have objected if you develop an opinion that politicians at some stage do/take decisions which are very much qualify to be a crime. Because in that sense even American President Bush and Chenney are also criminals, since they also authorize CIA for many covert activities, which common people and media will never know--- Americans do this because they only think about "their" interests. Reason why you or millions of many Indians living abroad are not ready to accept Modi in the same place as Bush or Chenney are because the media has created a permanent place in peoples mind. If you will think again perhaps you will know that America's biggest achievement is that their media is always successful in conducting psy-ops. While America wants it's people to be hardcore "Nationalists" and patriotic to core, it doesn't want other countries like that...because it feels that Nationalism of RSS and Right wing Parties of India may not be in long term interest of USA. This is the reason why many Americans consider Bush did error but NEVER condemn him like we Indians are ridiculing Modi. Actually Modi did EXACTLY THE SAME THING WHAT AMERICAN PRESIDENT WILL DO FOR HIS PEOPLE. i.e. Interest of 85% Hindus is the interest of India. If this thing doesnot become clear like Sky in Laddakh then we "educated" Indians should blame ourselves and remain self-Apologetic forever. And this I am able to say with confidence because I have never been to west....and I can look at west from Indian perspective

And i am no evangelically brainwashed guy. I am a proud Hindu. And it is for the Hindu deaths that happened during the Gujrat riots that i feel for too.

And I am Proud of You. :shades_smile: