King Tendulkar Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I fail to see how you or any other person here have managed to differentiate hyperbole from facts. Yes agree thousands of sikhs killed in the capital city all under full patronage of the state. All hyperbole, people should just stfu and get on with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Its clear what sick stance you have on this. Yes sikhs were victims in this with this genocide, yet you claim they are playing a card. All your posts here hammer sikhs etc. You are not interested in conedmnation and justuce. Why? Cos frnkly you fell Tytler and Rajiv served out justuce for your tigress falling like a big tree. Crinimals released to attack. Top officials and police handing out petrol to butrn and attack with. Politicians and police using openly eloctaral registers to identify sikhs and kill them. Yet its all a victim card stuff from Yank Lurker!! There we go ... once again. :facepalm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 There we go ... once again. :facepalm: Well it was genocide. Organised state campaign of killings of one particular community. Or you still clinging to the it was spontaneos fighting betweeen 2 communities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 As long as that's your stand' date=' it's OK. I feel sorry for the victims and empathize with them [b']but I feel both parties are responsible. The people who killed those innocent should definitely be bought to justice, no two ways about it. Remember this post, when you said victims were responsible as well cos they happened to be sikh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Yes agree thousands of sikhs killed in the capital city all under full patronage of the state. All hyperbole' date=' people should just stfu and get on with it.[/quote'] I asked you to tell us how you differentiate between hyperbole and legitimate 'stories'. Not that everything regarding this topic is a hyperbole. Stop making comments that are irrelevant to the questions posed. You wish for me to believe that if i go around any random place in Punjab/Delhi region, find a Sikh around the age of 30+ and i should beleive every little 'story' that comes out. Sorry, that is nonsense. This is not about Sikhs or Punjabis, this is about how the hell are you differentiating fact from fiction. Until you establish that 'quality control baseline', i still think this is a fuzzy picture, with a lot of tall tales mixed in with gruesome realities and i have no basis to conclude which one is which. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Well they will be fuzzy 30 years later. Wo so much faith in courts and police of india. Pretty difficult to get prosecutions when police them selves why involved in organising this, thus they wont exactly gather evidence peoperly will. they? Plus of course the CBI is in full control of CBI who are acting like defence lawyer rather then prosecutor. Thousands massacred, all done hand in hand with all types of indian instituitons in the capital city. And we get from apologists is thats its all fuzzy and how can anyone possibly be convicted. No wonder no one in authority has ever gone down for this , nor will they ever. Frankly they get secret pat on the backs and rewarded with juicy posts Again, we are not here to mollify you or any Sikh who feels bereaved for the events that occured. The justice system exists to serve credible deterrance and containment of threats to society on individual basis. The penal code in India specifies that you are innocent until proven guilty. Thus, the court system is completely credible in this- they cannot just convict people of murder on hearsay stuff from 20 years ago. I dont have much faith in the police in India but i do in the consistency of the legal system in India. They are not just a bunch of idiots who forget the basics of law that you *need* credible evidence to pronounce guilty verdict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Yes what kind of evidence is there. No CCTV or film crews fliming. Merley victinms and families of victims with witness accounts which corroborate. Show us evidence of such corroboration. So far i failed to see any. Plus it was all so long ago. Lets not bother asking why it is 30 years after and suddenly witness statements are being looked at. To long ago to bother now. Many stellar witnesses now dead or too old with dementia. The goons are out lasting justuice. Yep. So lets not compound the mistakes fo the past by trying to make a kangaroo court to kill off a few people from what happened 20 years ago purely on the basis of a bunch of 'he says/she says' claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Well it was genocide. Organised state campaign of killings of one particular community. Or you still clinging to the it was spontaneos fighting betweeen 2 communities? BS. There is zero evidence to conclude this. The massacre against Sikhs was not the last time a massacre happened in India, it wont be the last either. Nobody said that it was spontaneous fighting either, stop trying to make a strawman argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Shocking from scahinlara. Basically thousands killed and apparently no one is gulity as there is no evidence. Plus has faith in police, CBI and judiciary. Direct witnesses is not hearsay, they are not stories. They are evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Remember this post' date=' when [b']you said victims were responsible as well cos they happened to be sikh Straw man. I was quite surprised when you quoted that post. I went back and checked it. Now, here's the context - U_S' date=' no one said justice was delivered and the government was not responsibkle. [b']But to say that Bhindrewaala was not accountable is a whole new conspiracy theory altogether. Well' date=' look at my previous posts about Bhindrenwala on the 'operation bluestar' thread...[b']never said he was not accountable...he was once Indira Gandhi's party worker who later did not agree to her games...so was eventually gunned down...it was all a bloody political game. All I'm saying is....Sikh terrorists are dead...what about terrorists & their leaders who killed innocent Sikhs in Delhi & Kanpur riots? they are still living a normal life in India Why? As long as that's your stand' date=' it's OK. I feel sorry for the victims and empathize with them [b']but I feel both parties are responsible. The people who killed those innocent should definitely be bought to justice, no two ways about it. The post was in context to Operation Blue Star and NOT the Sikh riots. In addition, I also said that there should be justice. What is unfortunate is that you knew that because you asked the same question and I clarified my stand as well. Here's the conversation How were the innocent murdered responsible for their deaths??? Bonkers view point Or are you saying cos bhinrewale was sikh, that those killed by the genocide conducted by the govt deserved it? Kt' date=' [b']Both = Indira Gandhi + Bhindrewala. Must have taken some stretch of imagination to have come up with that one! :nervous: It is quite obvious at this stage that you knew that it was a discussion on Operation Blue Star and the fact that post (as I clarified in this very same thread) and YET you chose to bring in a straw man - once again. I empathize with your pain (if there was a loss of your community and family members) but to spin around an argument by building a straw man and intentionally trying to diver the attention of this thread is quite pathetic & shows your vested interest in this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I asked you to tell us how you differentiate between hyperbole and legitimate 'stories'. Not that everything regarding this topic is a hyperbole. Stop making comments that are irrelevant to the questions posed. You wish for me to believe that if i go around any random place in Punjab/Delhi region, find a Sikh around the age of 30+ and i should beleive every little 'story' that comes out. Sorry, that is nonsense. This is not about Sikhs or Punjabis, this is about how the hell are you differentiating fact from fiction. Until you establish that 'quality control baseline', i still think this is a fuzzy picture, with a lot of tall tales mixed in with gruesome realities and i have no basis to conclude which one is which.[/QUOTE] You call them stories. Law calls them witnesses to a crime. Again not tall tales. Unless you say thousands killed was an illusion and made up? At least you acknowledge their are gruesome realities. Strange how thousands killed and not one senior person convicted??? If you claim toknow india like you do, then you would know why this is, if you dont well then live in denial. Bofors, gujurat, vadra, etc etc etc All same side of coin. No justice, as if you are powerful ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Well it was genocide. Organised state campaign of killings of one particular community. Or you still clinging to the it was spontaneos fighting betweeen 2 communities? This displays your thought process - it is either genocide or riots there can be nothing in between. Quite consistent in your other "exaggerated" posts on this message board. That said, like said earlier (if you care to read) that this can be classified as a "massacre". Even the so called US does not classify the 1984 Sikh Riots as a "genocide". Read up for the article in this very same thread i.e. if you want to have a unpartisan view on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Again, we are not here to mollify you or any Sikh who feels bereaved for the events that occured. The justice system exists to serve credible deterrance and containment of threats to society on individual basis. The penal code in India specifies that you are innocent until proven guilty. Thus, the court system is completely credible in this- they cannot just convict people of murder on hearsay stuff from 20 years ago. I dont have much faith in the police in India but i do in the consistency of the legal system in India. They are not just a bunch of idiots who forget the basics of law that you *need* credible evidence to pronounce guilty verdict. Again not hearsay. But direct witnesses, which a court should hear and take in to account. But wait CBI is not proecuting anyone, so no chance to determine guilty or not. Plus lets not forget witnesses have not been able to put forward evidence as CBI/Police has done all it can not to gather evidence. Plus witnesses in India many not come forward as they know repercussions from powerful if they do. Plus you keep saying 30 years ago so fuzzy blah blah. Why is it 30 years and still non action, delayed justice means no justice. Tytler and co will one day die and matter closed. So much faith in Indian legal sysytem. Are you on a wind up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 BS. There is zero evidence to conclude this. The massacre against Sikhs was not the last time a massacre happened in India, it wont be the last either. Nobody said that it was spontaneous fighting either, stop trying to make a strawman argument. I don't think it will stop - Check post #138. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 This displays your thought process - it is either genocide or riots there can be nothing in between. Quite consistent in your other "exaggerated" posts on this message board. That said' date=' like said earlier (if you care to read) that this can be classified as a "massacre". Even the so called US does not classify the 1984 Sikh Riots as a "genocide". Read up for the article in this very same thread i.e. if you want to have a unpartisan view on this subject.[/quote'] Well USA says that not genocide so its not a genoicide. USA says world is flat so world is flat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 BS. There is zero evidence to conclude this. The massacre against Sikhs was not the last time a massacre happened in India, it wont be the last either. Nobody said that it was spontaneous fighting either, stop trying to make a strawman argument. There is zero evidence!!! You again on a wind up!! You can have a smuch evidence as you want or as little evidence as you want for a crime. It depends on wether the investigators want to investigate and gather evidence or want to do nothing and brush under carpet. In this case the state machinery has done the former to protect themselves. So basically you feel the state was not complicit in 84 massacres? What do you think happened baba? Interested in your version how thousands got killed in the capital over a number of days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Well USA says that not genocide so its not a genoicide. USA says world is flat so world is flat I doubt there can be any online discourse with you when you even fail to understand simple English. It can't be classified as genocide neither can it be classified as riots - it should be classified as a "massacre". I didn't say do as the US does - I meant that even US investigations (which supposedly is more credible than Indian systems) do not classify it as a "genocide". Straw man once again, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I don't think it will stop - Check post #138. So what happened in 84, Please explain your version of how thousands of sikhs got massacred in capital city over a number of days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I doubt there can be any online discourse with you when you even fail to understand simple English. It can't be classified as genocide neither can it be classified as riots - it should be classified as a "massacre". Many Many people far more intelligent then you, class it as a genoicide, Just cos they dont agree with your version guru does that mean they also cant undertsand english? A massacre organised by the state machinery against one community is indeed a genocide to many. To you it is not. Semantics anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 So what happened in 84' date=' Please explain your version of how thousands of sikhs got massacred in capital city over a number of days?[/quote'] Before that happens, please explain to me and all the members in this board as to why you intentionally tried to spin the same post in a different direction (twice!) despite giving an explanation. Your credibility has been compromised in Post #138, not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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