pak troops cross LoC, kill 2 Indian jawans brutally (decapitated)

[Muloghonto]

After 65 years of bleeding' date=' I think it is time to strike at the head of the snake instead of pussyfooting.[/quote'] when the snake has the ability to spit back nukes and kill off half of India's population in a couple of hours, its either the insanely ignorant or the insanely stupid who still advocate engaging the snake in a battle. Again, you are not helping India or India's interests by advocating total war with a nuclear powered nation.

[seedhi]

indeed. But we sure as hell can't find their operatives or get a pulse on 'what they are up to' without passive intel gathering networks in their nation. US can because its got these passive intel gathering networks setup due to their economic involvement with Pakistan.

This strategy, if at all it works (which I severely doubt), will work only once. After the first time the pakis will throw out all Indian companies and investments back. They already threw out all foreign aid workers after Bin Laden was killed, and each day are killing polio workers. By the way, how does building an oil pipeline through pakistan to India help in this strategy? It only gives pakis an enormous leverage. How does easing visas for pakistanis to visit and work in India help? These are all steps out govt is taking, and I dont see how any of these helps even as part of whatever strategy you are proposing.

[surajmal]

when the snake has the ability to spit back nukes and kill off half of India's population in a couple of hours, its either the insanely ignorant or the insanely stupid who still advocate engaging the snake in a battle. Again, you are not helping India or India's interests by advocating total war with a nuclear powered nation.

"Duck and Cover!!!" You overestimate Pak's ability and underestimate India's.

[seedhi]

Solution is not war, but economic strangulation and covert action to further destabilize pakistan. We need to destroy its economy and foster a civill war there. Empirical evidence shows that an economically stable pakistan has caused most terrorism related problems in India.

[jairamesh]

Pakistan is a basket case, our focus you should be total isolation from them, secure our borders, and integrate fully with Nepal, Bangla, SL and Myanmar, establish free trade zones and better cooperation on security. Bangladesh by the end of this decade will overtake Pakistan's GDP, which in itself should enough of an indicator where Indian government and business' focus should be.

[Muloghonto]

This strategy' date=' if at all it works (which I severely doubt), will work only once. After the first time the pakis will throw out all Indian companies and investments back. They already threw out all foreign aid workers after Bin Laden was killed, and each day are killing polio workers. [/quote'] True. it is a one-shot. but that one-shot can be potentially very valuable, not to mention, the added bonus is once they do kick our businesses out and thousands of Pakistanis lose their jobs, thats thousands of Pakistanis with an axe to grind against their govt. Ie, passively creating dissention in the enemy. It doesn't. Its a stupid idea. This helps because the corollary is also true. Easing visa restrictions for Pakistanis to come to India = easing visa restrictions for Indians to go do Pakistan. Ie, we get in their house while they get in ours. Given the geographical, strategic, economic and population disparities in this equation, i will take 10 Pakistanis sneaking into India if it means sneaking 10 Indians into Pakistan. We stand to cause more damage to them this way than vice versa.

[surajmal]

Solution is not war' date=' but [b']economic strangulation and covert action to further destabilize pakistan. We need to destroy its economy and foster a civill war there. Empirical evidence shows that an economically stable pakistan has caused most terrorism related problems in India.

As long as US (and Saudis) keeps pumping billions, you ain't getting economic strangulation.

[Muloghonto]

"Duck and Cover!!!" You overestimate Pak's ability and underestimate India's.

I don't oversetimate or understimate the ability of a nuclear bomb. Total war with pakistan may result in India annihilating Pakistani air force, army and navy, but it also results in annihilation of Delhi, Mumbai and anything west of Patna and north of Bangalore into one big radioactive nuclear blast zone, with hundreds of millions dead. For all Pakistan has to do to nuke us, is push a button. (and vice versa).

[Muloghonto]

Solution is not war, but economic strangulation and covert action to further destabilize pakistan. We need to destroy its economy and foster a civill war there. Empirical evidence shows that an economically stable pakistan has caused most terrorism related problems in India.

Indeed. And our ability to manipulate their economy goes up ten folds by doing bilateral investments.

[jairamesh]

True. it is a one-shot. but that one-shot can be potentially very valuable, not to mention, the added bonus is once they do kick our businesses out and thousands of Pakistanis lose their jobs, thats thousands of Pakistanis with an axe to grind against their govt. Ie, passively creating dissention in the enemy. It doesn't. Its a stupid idea. This helps because the corollary is also true. Easing visa restrictions for Pakistanis to come to India = easing visa restrictions for Indians to go do Pakistan. Ie, we get in their house while they get in ours. Given the geographical, strategic, economic and population disparities in this equation, i will take 10 Pakistanis sneaking into India if it means sneaking 10 Indians into Pakistan. We stand to cause more damage to them this way than vice versa.

:giggle: Yet to hear of Indian suicide bombers willing to die for Kashmir.

[surajmal]

True. it is a one-shot. but that one-shot can be potentially very valuable, not to mention, the added bonus is once they do kick our businesses out and thousands of Pakistanis lose their jobs, thats thousands of Pakistanis with an axe to grind against their govt. Ie, passively creating dissention in the enemy. It doesn't. Its a stupid idea. This helps because the corollary is also true. Easing visa restrictions for Pakistanis to come to India = easing visa restrictions for Indians to go do Pakistan. Ie, we get in their house while they get in ours. Given the geographical, strategic, economic and population disparities in this equation, i will take 10 Pakistanis sneaking into India if it means sneaking 10 Indians into Pakistan. We stand to cause more damage to them this way than vice versa.

"You talk about this stuff like you have read it in a book"

[Muloghonto]

As long as US (and Saudis) keeps pumping billions' date=' you ain't getting economic strangulation.[/quote'] You are if you get standard investment models going. All you gotto do is end up investing in their banks and then collapsing them. Since banking investments are one of the first things bilateral trade negotiations tend to open up, this is a viable option.

[surajmal]

I don't oversetimate or understimate the ability of a nuclear bomb. Total war with pakistan may result in India annihilating Pakistani air force, army and navy, but it also results in annihilation of Delhi, Mumbai and anything west of Patna and north of Bangalore into one big radioactive nuclear blast zone, with hundreds of millions dead. For all Pakistan has to do to nuke us, is push a button. (and vice versa).

India is developing intercepting capabilities.

[Muloghonto]

:giggle: Yet to hear of Indian suicide bombers willing to die for Kashmir.

we dont need suicide bombers. That is their way, since they are engaging a much larger nation with 10x greater everything. Thus they need to score 'psychological points' by terrorizing the populace. We don't need that, what we need are saboteurs. They can blow up Taj Hotel, we will blow up a few transfomers and irrigation ditches. Our damage to them will be in resources column, theirs would be in psychological warfare column.

[jairamesh]

You are if you get standard investment models going. All you gotto do is end up investing in their banks and then collapsing them. Since banking investments are one of the first things bilateral trade negotiations tend to open up' date=' this is a viable option.[/quote'] This is ridiculous, you expect likes of Tata, Premji, ICICI or Ambanis to risk their capital in Pakistan for political games? Indian government is not China, the Indian treasury is empty.

[jairamesh]

we dont need suicide bombers. That is their way, since they are engaging a much larger nation with 10x greater everything. Thus they need to score 'psychological points' by terrorizing the populace. We don't need that, what we need are saboteurs. They can blow up Taj Hotel, we will blow up a few transfomers and irrigation ditches. Our damage to them will be in resources column, theirs would be in psychological warfare column.

And you expect them not to learn and reciprocate.

[ganeshran]

It is extremely easy to sit behind a keyboard in USA and dream of nuclear war in India and wiping out the enemy, but the human and economic cost of such a conflict is unimaginable. Millions will die and it will break the back of our economy. India should always keep the nuclear option on the table (even first use) but actually using it is ridiculous especially when we would beat them in any conventional war 9 out of 10 times. A nuclear attack should only be for the scenario when we have concrete intelligence that Pakistan is planning to bomb us. For all other scenarios, strengthening our defence and moving against Pakistan diplomatically and economically should suffice.

[Muloghonto]

India is developing intercepting capabilities.

yes. but both of us will be retired and waiting around for a hip replacement surgery before missile interception becomes 100% efficient. Even with the Iron dome, which is 90% effective, you don't want a nuclear war with Pakistan.

[Muloghonto]

And you expect them not to learn and reciprocate.

ofcourse they will. The point is, this is our strength. Taking 1 for 1 trades with Pakistan is putting India ahead massively. Because we are 10x larger, we can 'tank' our losses far easier than Pakistan can.

[surajmal]

You are if you get standard investment models going. All you gotto do is end up investing in their banks and then collapsing them. Since banking investments are one of the first things bilateral trade negotiations tend to open up' date=' this is a viable option.[/quote'] (US/Saudi money goes directly to their army and jihadis churning madrassas). There is no guarantee that Banking collapse will actually affect the one entity that we want it to effect - Army. In the meantime let them kill a few thousand here and there. I like where your head is at.