pak troops cross LoC, kill 2 Indian jawans brutally (decapitated)

[Muloghonto]

This is ridiculous, you expect likes of Tata, Premji, ICICI or Ambanis to risk their capital in Pakistan for political games? Indian government is not China, the Indian treasury is empty.

True. This is not something we would need Tatas and Birlas to do, but for the indian govt to do (as in by creating sham banks, pumping money into them to invest into Paki banks and then collapsing them).

[seedhi]

Indeed. And our ability to manipulate their economy goes up ten folds by doing bilateral investments.

What I wrote was not necessarily in that order. The means to achieve the collapse is primarily by fostering a civil war in pakistan. No country, USA or Saudis will touch a collapsing pakistan with a bargepole. pakistan is not going to collapse by India starting to invest in it, thats absurd.

[Muloghonto]

(US/Saudi money goes directly to their army and jihadis churning madrassas). There is no guarantee that Banking collapse will actually affect the one entity that we want it to effect - Army. In the meantime let them kill a few thousand here and there. I like where your head is at.

Saudi/US money for the Pak military goes predominantly through banks, not through cash transfers. We don't care about the hundreds of millions flowing into the coutnry in raw cash to fund madrassas and jihadis. What we care about is the tens of billions flowing in through the banks that lets their army buy Chinese built planes and warships.

[jairamesh]

True. This is not something we would need Tatas and Birlas to do' date=' but for the [b']indian govt to do (as in by creating sham banks, pumping money into them to invest into Paki banks and then collapsing them).

:giggle: More like pumping into Swiss banks. If Indian govt induces a collapses, Swiss banks will fall instead.:hysterical:

[Muloghonto]

What I wrote was not necessarily in that order. The means to achieve the collapse is primarily by fostering a civil war in pakistan. No country' date=' USA or Saudis will touch a collapsing pakistan with a bargepole. pakistan is not going to collapse by India starting to invest in it, thats absurd.[/quote'] No, we cant singlehandedly collapse it by investing in it and pulling out the rug. But we can, at the opportune moment, use the economic manipulation to 'tip over the staggering beast' and use it as the 'straw that broke the camel's back'. Ie, a tactical resource.

[ganeshran]

True. This is not something we would need Tatas and Birlas to do' date=' but for the indian govt to do (as in by creating sham banks, pumping money into them to invest into Paki banks and then collapsing them).[/quote'] All this could be done in an atmosphere of trust. Given the current conditions, I doubt even a genuine Indian/Pakistani organization can invest in each other's countries without massive red tape and constant monitoring of the money flow.

[seedhi]

True. This is not something we would need Tatas and Birlas to do' date=' but for the indian govt to do (as in by creating sham banks, pumping money into them to invest into Paki banks and then collapsing them).[/quote']pakistanis may be insane, but they arent fools. No country, even pakistan is going to allow India to gain a control over its banking system. And neither is it going to allow a transfer of assets to India. I think you are letting your imagination run wild here.

[ganeshran]

Indian government is not China, the Indian treasury is empty.

I don't know where you are getting your economic figures from, but this is simply not true. Growth might have slowed down, but no way are we bankrupt as a nation. Poor in per capita terms maybe, not as a whole

[Muloghonto]

pakistanis may be insane' date=' but they arent fools. No country, even pakistan is going to allow India to gain a control over its banking system. And neither is it going to allow a transfer of assets to India. I think you are letting your imagination run wild here.[/quote'] Again, i will admit that i am no expert or even competent on this subject. but i have noticed that in most bilateral trade negotiation openings, the first thing to come on table is 'let our banks invest in each other and make capital flow more fluidly between banks' and there are banks here who's fate depends on whether the banks in Spain or Italy go bankrupt or not, because of these bilateral interbanking investments. I dunno how possible it is in practicality, but it does seem possible in theory to minipulate their banking systems by fostering front banks and investment deals bilaterally.

[surajmal]

Saudi/US money for the Pak military goes predominantly through banks, not through cash transfers. We don't care about the hundreds of millions flowing into the coutnry in raw cash to fund madrassas and jihadis. What we care about is the tens of billions flowing in through the banks that lets their army buy Chinese built planes and warships.

I'm not fully against what your are saying. Economic warfare could be used as leading in moves. But open war is ultimately going to happen whether one likes it or not. And there are ways Paki nukes can be effectively neutralized.

[Muloghonto]

I don't know where you are getting your economic figures from, but this is simply not true. Growth might have slowed down, but no way are we bankrupt as a nation. Poor in per capita terms maybe, not as a whole

I think he means in terms of balance of payment and FER, we are mere paupers compared to China and most of the world.

[Muloghonto]

it won't unless we have found some technology to completely neutralize nukes. and if it does, then it would be the stupidest thing ever to do. Such as what ?

[ganeshran]

Again, i will admit that i am no expert or even competent on this subject. but i have noticed that in most bilateral trade negotiation openings, the first thing to come on table is 'let our banks invest in each other and make capital flow more fluidly between banks' and there are banks here who's fate depends on whether the banks in Spain or Italy go bankrupt or not, because of these bilateral interbanking investments. I dunno how possible it is in practicality, but it does seem possible in theory to minipulate their banking systems by fostering front banks and investment deals bilaterally.

Might be possible but the kind of economic integration you are advocating would take years if not decades and require massive amounts of goodwill that both governments cannot afford to spend given the opposition's hawkish stance in both countries. All it would take is one attack for it to fall through.

[surajmal]

Again' date=' i will admit that i am no expert or even competent on this subject. but i have noticed that in most bilateral trade negotiation openings, the first thing to come on table is [b']'let our banks invest in each other and make capital flow more fluidly between banks' and there are banks here who's fate depends on whether the banks in Spain or Italy go bankrupt or not, because of these bilateral interbanking investments. I dunno how possible it is in practicality, but it does seem possible in theory to minipulate their banking systems by fostering front banks and investment deals bilaterally.

Even India has some major roadblocks in banking sector vis a vis foreign banks. Do you think Pakistan would be foolish enough open its banking sector to its arch enemy? They haven't even given India the MFN status yet.

[jairamesh]

I don't know where you are getting your economic figures from, but this is simply not true. Growth might have slowed down, but no way are we bankrupt as a nation. Poor in per capita terms maybe, not as a whole

Obviously we are not bankrupt, but we haven't got budget surplus, like China, to throw money around for political gamesmanship. The GOI has more pertinent problems trying to control the twin deficits of current account and budget deficit. There is no luxury of wasting money on Pakistan "intel" gathering via economic investment.

[ganeshran]

Obviously we are not bankrupt, but we haven't got budget surplus, like China, to throw money around for political gamesmanship. The GOI has more pertinent problems trying to control the twin deficits of current account and budget deficit. There is no luxury of wasting money on Pakistan "intel" gathering via economic investment.

The government has to spare money to exert influence and such investments come even in the face of other needs back home. That is why the credit lines to Bangladesh and Afghanistan, loan to the EU rescue fund etc. It would not to be the scale of massive investment in other countries, but would be substantial amounts

[jairamesh]

Even India has some major roadblocks in banking sector vis a vis foreign banks. Do you think Pakistan would be foolish enough open its banking sector to its arch enemy? They haven't even given India the MFN status yet.

And that's another point, Pakistan having being paying lip service for over 12 months but haven't come any closer to granting MFN. I doubt Pakistan would even be open to the idea of India investment. The Pakistan people might welcome it, but the Pak Army would reject it.

[jairamesh]

The government has to spare money to exert influence and such investments come even in the face of other needs back home. That is why the credit lines to Bangladesh and Afghanistan' date= loan to the EU rescue fund etc. It would not to be the scale of massive investment in other countries, but would be substantial amounts

It does it's bit, but it's peanuts to what likes of China, South Korea, Japan or even US do in these countries or in neighboring countries. How much influence did India have in Maldives? Zilch, even after investing millions. Same goes for Sri Lanka.

[Cevno]

No' date=' full fledged covert operations on a scale that CIA undertook during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Arm Balochi separatists with Stingers and heavy weaponry if needed.[/quote'] And those who CIA funded then went and did 9/11. The ones Pakistan funded in Afghanistan are now exploding their every city. And Indira Gandhi did same with LTTE, led to death of her son. This will again come to bite us back, plus Pakistani's will start hating. Balochi's even if they take over will then cause the same problem and use those stingers on us. Plus the nuclear weapons too. We don't bloody have resources to do it either. We need more to develop our country too, you no ?

[Cevno]

This is virtually impossible for India to accomplish without Iranian & Afghan help. India-Pakistan border is not very 'infiltration friendly', except in Kashmir, where half a million troops from both sides are sitting around trying to count every ant and rabbit that crosses the LoC, nevermind people. Only way to do this, is if we have help from Iran and/or Afghanistan to set up the infiltration. Btw, regardless of whether we want a nuclear war or a hostile standoff ala cold war, the fact that India has less than 1/100th the 'intel resources' in Pakistan compared to what Pakistan has in India is a serious logistical and strategic disadvantage we have, which we can rectify to a great extent by forming commercial links with them.

This too.