Dhoni overtakes Ganguly's tally of 21 test wins as captain

[saneindian]

this thread has potential

Someone needs to bump the thread on Sachin's retirement :--D

[Ultimate_Game]

So, why don't you tell us when Dhoni was able to turn a match on it's head leading from the front in his primary role - keeping? And yeah, Kapil was a better captain than Dhoni. He won a WC outside the subcontinent. Please check back here when Dhoni does that. And no, the championship in T20 is called World T20, not World Cup.

I am sure Dhoni's 206 catches and 32 stumpings didn't lead to any wins, did they? Or how his double hundred in the 1st Test wasn't really leading from the front :haha: Yeah, I know for you Kapil is a better captain than Dhoni. By the way I can make a counter argument - if Kapil was such a great captain why couldn't he win a WC at home? I mean if it's so easy anyone could do it but apparently Dhoni is the only captain to have won a WC at home which is a plus in his favor and not a negative as you are making it seem :hatsoff: I am sure we all heard about Kapil's great captaincy skills in 87 WC final where he had no answer to Gooch & Gatting sweeping him and did nothing to counter it. By the way where would you rank Dhoni among India's captains? Clearly you think Kapil and Ganguly are better. So is Dhoni 3rd or there were other better captains in our history than Dhoni?

[The Outsider]

So when he will have that record' date=' will that still be as inane a number as 22 test wins or most series wins? :winky:[/quote'] Yes it will be. I was just taking your advise and talking in the inane language that the thread has been following rather than discussing captaincy as the way it is supposed to be discussed.

[Sachin=GOD]

Someone needs to bump the thread on Sachin's retirement :--D

that topic (like this one) has been discussed to death on ICF but it seems people still have the time and patience to discuss it so go ahead and bump it.............I'll just sit and enjoy the "debate" :two_thumbs_up:

[The Outsider]

By the way where would you rank Dhoni among India's captains? Clearly you think Kapil and Ganguly are better. So is Dhoni 3rd or there were other better captains in our history than Dhoni?

Dhoni is the worst Indian test captain I've seen in action or read about in any detail along with Tendulkar.

[The Outsider]

I am sure Dhoni's 206 catches and 32 stumpings didn't lead to any wins, did they? Or how his double hundred in the 1st Test wasn't really leading from the front :haha:

Are you dense? I am asking for a spectacular wicket keeping performance from him where he was able to make a deep impact on a match by say taking 4-5 spectacular catches like Ganguly did at Brisbane or Kapil did at Ahmedabad.

[saneindian]

As much as you hate these numbers, end of the day they do carry some relevance. Maybe not for you but for a few others who trying to dissect those numbers and discussing those. Also, just as having most test wins or series win doesn't make Dhoni the best captain, having most number of losses will not make him the worst captain either.

[The Outsider]

Also, just as having most test wins or series win doesn't make Dhoni the best captain, having most number of losses will not make him the worst captain either.

For those proclaiming him to be the best captain based on numbers, they should be intellectually honest to call him the worst as well when numbers don't work for them, right?

[carnish]

Are you dense? I am asking for a spectacular wicket keeping performance from him where he was able to make a deep impact on a match by say taking 4-5 spectacular catches like Ganguly did at Brisbane or Kapil did at Ahmedabad.

Outsider, 4-5 catches needs his bowlers bowling that good for him to make such an impact. Unless he has dropped too many in any particular phase of a match, he never had a chance to make such a contribution.

[Ultimate_Game]

Dhoni is the worst Indian test captain I've seen in action or read about in any detail along with Tendulkar.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: So the guy who has most wins is the worst :haha:

Are you dense? I am asking for a spectacular wicket keeping performance from him where he was able to make a deep impact on a match by say taking 4-5 spectacular catches like Ganguly did at Brisbane or Kapil did at Ahmedabad.

So I am dense yet a wk-batsman averaging 40 with the bat and 206 catches to go with 32 stumpings is not enough contribution. As for leading from the front, I have already mentioned the 224 against Aus in the 1st Test. Why shouldn't it go along with Ganguly's 143 or Kapil's 9/83? By the way just for you, to go with his double ton, here's a Test in which Dhoni had 8 dismissals to pave the way for one of the more famous away wins - Perth 2008. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/291353.html He had 8 dismissals in the Test along with a crucial 38 in the 2nd innings. Is that match-winning enough as clearly his double ton wasn't :giggle:

[GautiMaan]

Come on guys a captain needs players who can perform their roles to a certain extent atleast to influence a match in any way.Look at Clarke,he was all over his opponents last year,with his fields, declaring when still trailing etc but now he doesnt have batsmen or bowlers suited for our conditions and everything he does seems to backfire.

[Ultimate_Game]

For those proclaiming him to be the best captain based on numbers' date=' they should be intellectually honest to call him the worst as well when numbers don't work for them, right?[/quote'] We all see someone dripping "intellectual honesty" by claiming the guy who has most Test wins for his country with a WC to boot as the worst captain :hysterical: Oh the irony! :giggle:

[saneindian]

For those proclaiming him to be the best captain based on numbers' date= they should be intellectually honest to call him the worst as well when numbers don't work for them, right?

Sidhoni is the only one that comes to mind, who else has called him the best captain based on most wins?

[The Outsider]

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: So the guy who has most wins is the worst :haha:

He'll soon have the most losses as well. What will you say then? :hysterical:

So I am dense yet a wk-batsman averaging 40 with the bat and 206 catches to go with 32 stumpings is not enough contribution. As for leading from the front, I have already mentioned the 224 against Aus in the 1st Test. Why shouldn't it go along with Ganguly's 143 or Kapil's 9/83?

I asked you to look at the strength of the sides. Perhaps you haven't done it till now.

[The Outsider]

By the way just for you, to go with his double ton, here's a Test in which Dhoni had 8 dismissals to pave the way for one of the more famous away wins - Perth 2008. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/291353.html He had 8 dismissals in the Test along with a crucial 38 in the 2nd innings. Is that match-winning enough as clearly his double ton wasn't :giggle:

Looks like you have reading comprehension problems as well. I asked for 4-5 spectacular keeping dismissals not run off the mill catches which Kamran Akmal would take in his sleep.

[The Outsider]

We all see someone dripping "intellectual honesty" by claiming the guy who has most Test wins for his country with a WC to boot as the worst captain :hysterical: Oh the irony! :giggle:

And soon he'll have the most test losses, 3 early exits from the World T20 and an early exit from the WC. :hysterical:

[Crookbond]

Looks like you have reading comprehension problems as well. I asked for 4-5 spectacular keeping dismissals not run off the mill catches which Kamran Akmal would take in his sleep.

Just curious - Is there WK batsman who has 4/5 "spectacular" (in some ways a subjective term) in a Test match? In my understanding, that would be an extremely rare event.

[Ultimate_Game]

He'll soon have the most losses as well. What will you say then? :hysterical: I asked you to look at the strength of the sides. Perhaps you haven't done it till now.

I am still awaiting response to Dhoni being the only captain to win WC at home, and I guess Dhoni's 224 didn't count coz of "strength of the sides" :haha: As for Dhoni making a difference with fielding how about the following Test (Perth 2008) where he had 8 dismissals... http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/291353.html Clearly his batting efforts are not good enough so what about the match with 8 dismissals as a wk? Is that good enough or "strength of sides" works against him this time as well :haha:

[The Outsider]

Just curious - Is there WK batsman who has 4/5 "spectacular" (in some ways a subjective term) in a Test match? In my understanding' date=' that would be an extremely rare event.[/quote'] Yeah, and so is a 9/83 and a back on the wall hundred at Brisbane. We are talking about rare events of leading from the front.

[Ultimate_Game]

Looks like you have reading comprehension problems as well. I asked for 4-5 spectacular keeping dismissals not run off the mill catches which Kamran Akmal would take in his sleep.

So let me get this straight... 1. When asked for making a difference I pointed to Dhoni's 224 and that was not good enough coz of "strength of the side" :giggle: 2. Then it was pointed out to me how Kapil was a better captain as he won WC away. When I responded Dhoni is the only captain to win Wc at home, no response 3. When I bring up a match where Dhoni contributed as a wk it's all "run of the mill" stuff :hysterical: And then we hear about "intellectual honesty" and being "dense" :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: