The Sreesanth Aggression Appreciation Society

[Predator_05]

Aggression you have to feel inside. You don't have to make a show of it. I think Sachin is one of the most aggressive batsman I've ever seen. At his pomp' date=' the bowler didn't know where to pitch to him..[/quote'] Dhondy, the problem is that many of our members didn't know cricket existed when Tendulkar was at his pomp

[Bumper]

Ball by ball commentary, rediff interviews...:hysterical: I rest my case. Before you keep talking about all your "research" try to get yourself some tapes of Tendulkar's hundred and his innings at Sydney. Tendulkar was the only Indian batsman on that tour who showed some balls. Why are you commenting on an incident which you have never ever seen ?

Hypocrisy at its best:hysterical: Werent you ranting the other day about the greatness of the old timers of the 40s & 50s (as if you had seen every innings they played), while pilloring Dravid for not faring well against the best attacks of his times ? You dont have to watch every game that was played in the last decade to comment on a player. I will comment on the incident based on evidences i have seen/read. Shove your approvals, dont need them, thanks!:hysterical:

[Bumper]

What's the big deal about aggression anyway? I reckon we have fallen for the hype generated by our neighbours about meat, aggression, Pathanisms, Punjabisms, etc. This is rubbish, IMO. The greatest fast bowlers and batsmen never said much- just let their bat or ball do the talking- Richards, Lara, Tendulkar, Marshall, Ambrose, Imran come to the mind. Imran, I remember, gently raised his arms and walked down the pitch after taking a wicket. Never said a word. Aggression you have to feel inside. You don't have to make a show of it. I think Sachin is one of the most aggressive batsman I've ever seen. At his pomp, the bowler didn't know where to pitch to him. Some of you guys are falling for the testosterone fuelled celebrations that our Hollywood style cricketers have put up recently. Don't forget that they are playing to an audience of half a billion TV viewers back home. There's a lot of sponsorship money at stake, and grandstanding of this sort catches the eye of advertisers.

Dhondy you cannot overlook the fact that we beat this monstrous neo Aussie team for the FIRST TIME, in a MUST win game, that the Aussies were desperate about winning.

[Predator_05]

Hypocrisy at its best:hysterical: Werent you ranting the other day about the greatness of the old timers of the 40s & 50s (as if you had seen every innings they played),

When was this ? I know nothing about cricketers from the 40's and 50's, just like you know nothing about Tendulkar pre-tennis elbow

I will comment on the incident based on evidences i have seen/read. Shove your approvals' date=' dont need them, thanks!:hysterical:[/quote'] My approval ? I seriously doubt anyone will take your opinions on Tendulkar with anything other than a truckload of salt. Mainly because you have only been watching cricket since 2004, you never actually watched him play a ball of cricket when he was at his peak hence you are unable to appreciate the innings he played because you have no clue about the situations - to you, they are nothing but numbers on a database. Hence why you make ill-informed and far fetched statements like the one about the 99 Aussie tour, while conveniently ignoring the fact that he scored plenty of runs and was man of the series - clueless

[Dhondy]

Dhondy you cannot overlook the fact that we beat this monstrous neo Aussie team for the FIRST TIME' date=' in a MUST win game, that the Aussies were desperate about winning.[/quote'] Indeed. Take nothing away from that achievement. But so did Pakistan and Zimbabwe. When was the last time the Aussies lost thrice in a world cup? Don't ignore the evidence here. Maybe this shortest version of the game equalizes the difference in class between sides? Are you confident we can beat them over a 50-over match? Over a Test match? With this side? I think that's what people are saying here. There's no doubt that India couldn't have fielded a better XI for this version of the game. But to seize on the fantastic hitting by Yuvi or the sabre rattling by Sreesanth over the last week and to disparage people who have been the best in the world over the length of a career because they did not bare their teeth or mouth four letter words, is well...just gullible, IMO.

[Bumper]

When was this ? I know nothing about cricketers from the 40's and 50's, just like you know nothing about Tendulkar pre-tennis elbow

This was in the old board. I was debating with Lurker on Barry richards & he had challenged me to come up with my top 10 list of batsmen, bowlers and allrounders. I lad listed Dravid & Ponting there, but not Hutton (dont recall the oldie's name). You countered Dravid's inclusion by bringing up his record against McGrath & Donald, while making a case for Hutton (going purely by hearsay). Ravi exposed your fallacious argument by pointing out exactly that. I cannot prove it, as the site was hacked. But i do clearly recall that episode. Many others on the board may recall it too!

My approval ? I seriously doubt anyone will take your opinions on Tendulkar with anything other than a truckload of salt. Mainly because you have only been watching cricket since 2004, you never actually watched him play a ball of cricket when he was at his peak hence you are unable to appreciate the innings he played because you have no clue about the situations - to you, they are nothing but numbers on a database. Hence why you make ill-informed and far fetched statements like the one about the 99 Aussie tour, while conveniently ignoring the fact that he scored plenty of runs and was man of the series - clueless

All your rants aside, i stand by what i claimed. Tendulkar played out consec maidens of McGrath to counter his outside the offstump line to make McGrath bowl to his stumps. Proving this will take enormous amount of my time, something i least care to do at this time, as it doesnt add any value to my argument (which is that the big three lacked aggression in key games against the Aussies)

[Bumper]

Indeed. Take nothing away from that achievement. But so did Pakistan and Zimbabwe. When was the last time the Aussies lost thrice in a world cup?

Thats hardly comparable. Pakistan & Zimbabwe beat the Aussies in the prelims & super-8s. Aussies simply dont lose knock outs or the finals. Thats what makes it special.

Don't ignore the evidence here. Maybe this shortest version of the game equalizes the difference in class between sides? Are you confident we can beat them over a 50-over match? Over a Test match? With this side?

How confident are u that we can beat them in a 50 ov match with our seniors ? These kids beat the world champs in their first ever encounter. This is special.

I think that's what people are saying here. There's no doubt that India couldn't have fielded a better XI for this version of the game. But to seize on the fantastic hitting by Yuvi or the sabre rattling by Sreesanth over the last week and to disparage people who have been the best in the world over the length of a career because they did not bare their teeth or mouth four letter words, is well...just gullible, IMO.

Not disparaging the oldies, atleast i didnt start it that way. Putting what these kids have achieved in perspective. You dont get such a perspective until u look at our failures in the past

[THX_1138]

What's the big deal about aggression anyway? I reckon we have fallen for the hype generated by our neighbours about meat, aggression, Pathanisms, Punjabisms, etc. This is rubbish, IMO. The greatest fast bowlers and batsmen never said much- just let their bat or ball do the talking- Richards, Lara, Tendulkar, Marshall, Ambrose, Imran come to the mind. Imran, I remember, gently raised his arms and walked down the pitch after taking a wicket. Never said a word. Aggression you have to feel inside. You don't have to make a show of it. I think Sachin is one of the most aggressive batsman I've ever seen. At his pomp, the bowler didn't know where to pitch to him. Some of you guys are falling for the testosterone fuelled celebrations that our Hollywood style cricketers have put up recently. Don't forget that they are playing to an audience of half a billion TV viewers back home. There's a lot of sponsorship money at stake, and grandstanding of this sort catches the eye of advertisers.

i think you are missing the point. aggression does not mean being loud and vocieferous. there is a frightening belligerence to people like Richards, Marshall and above all Ambrose. Ambrose had his traditional fist pumping it the air after a wicket and dismissive nature with the media. i recall his immortal words "Curtly talk to no man" (after winning a man of the match award). and quite frankly when you are 6'9" like curtly or richards, walk out with no helmet, smile nonchalantly even when your side is 9 down and score sixes like you had bought them at a discount store; you dont need to be loud to be more aggressive. similarly sreesanth who is not built like a rock nor is as tall as a palm tree compensates with his words and fiersomeness.

[Predator_05]

This was in the old board. I was debating with Lurker on Barry richards & he had challenged me to come up with my top 10 list of batsmen, bowlers and allrounders. I lad listed Dravid & Ponting there, but not Hutton (dont recall the oldie's name). You countered Dravid's inclusion by bringing up his record against McGrath & Donald, while making a case for Hutton (going purely by hearsay). Ravi exposed your fallacious argument by pointing out exactly that. I cannot prove it, as the site was hacked. But i do clearly recall that episode. Many others on the board may recall it too!

? No clue what you are going on about. I am sure i didn't say anything along the lines of "Hutton played poorly against that bowler in that series, blah blah".

All your rants aside' date=' i stand by what i claimed. Tendulkar played out consec maidens of McGrath to counter his outside the offstump line to make McGrath bowl to his stumps. Proving this will take enormous amount of my time, something i least care to do at this time, as it doesnt add any value to my argument (which is that the big three lacked aggression in key games against the Aussies)[/quote'] Tendulkar has played out maidens against the sh*ttiest bowlers - Giles, Joseph Angara, Ray Price - to name a few. Does that mean they have dominated him ? It doesn't. You seem to think that playing out maidens is a sign of weakness or something. If that is the case, Dravid is probably the biggest p*ssy to have ever played the game ! On that tour, Tendulkar was easily the best batsman on either side and finished man of the series. End of story I don't know how you can claim that Tendulkar had a deliberate strategy in mind, ie; making McGrath bowl to his stumps. How can you make these statements without having seen the match ? That is what i find very strange. BTW, i do agree that Tendulkar batted defensively on that tour - but the reason for that is because the team kept collapsing all the time. He always tried to settle down at first and build partnerships but no one ever stuck around for long enough. Makes his run scoring feats all the more admirable ...and your comment about big three lacking "aggression" (whatever the hell that is) in big games vs Australia is another ill-informed comment. It's true as far as Ganguly and Dravid is concerned but not in the case of Tendulkar. Clearly you never watched Tendulkar hitting McGrath into the sightscreen and then sledging him during the 2000 ICC Champions Trophy. Or his assault against him in the 1996 World Cup after he had bowled 3 maidens. Or his 39 ball 69, 120 ball 139 in the 2001 ODI series, in both innings he destroyed McGrath. Even in the 2003 World Cup, he got the better of McGrath in the group stage match but again, the rest of the team kept collapsing.

[Bumper]

? No clue what you are going on about. I am sure i didn't say anything along the lines of "Hutton played poorly against that bowler in that series, blah blah".

You didnt say Hutton played poorly. You wanted Hutton in the top 10 based on hearsay, while challening Dravid's spot in the top 10. When u cannot recall what u said 6 months ago, u expect people to believe your account of what happened 8 years ago in 1999 ? How does that logic work ?:haha: And dont hide behind proofs etc. This is not a judicial investigation & i have no time to prove one way or the other.

Tendulkar has played out maidens against the sh*ttiest bowlers - Giles, Joseph Angara, Ray Price - to name a few. Does that mean they have dominated him ? It doesn't. On that tour, Tendulkar was easily the best batsman on either side and finished man of the series.

Irrelevant. I claimed Tendu played out maidens, u countered saying he did not. Feel free to read the thread a few more times.

I don't know how you can claim that Tendulkar had a deliberate strategy in mind, ie; making McGrath bowl to his stumps. How can you make these statements without having the match ? That is what i find very strange.

Clutching at straws, eh ? Why cant i claim this after reading a match report or an article on rediff ?

BTW, i do agree that Tendulkar batted defensively on that tour - but the reason for that is because the team kept collapsing all the time. He always tried to settle down at first and build partnerships but no one ever stuck around for long enough. Makes his run scoring feats all the more admirable ...and your comment about big three lacking "aggression" (whatever the hell that is) in big games vs Australia is another ill-informed comment. It's true as far as Ganguly and Dravid is concerned but not in the case of Tendulkar. Clearly you never watched Tendulkar hitting McGrath into the sightscreen and then sledging him during the 2000 ICC Champions Trophy. Or his assault against him in the 1996 World Cup after he had bowled 3 maidens. Or his 39 ball 69, 120 ball 139 in the 2001 ODI series, in both innings he destroyed McGrath. Even in the 2003 World Cup, he got the better of McGrath in the group stage match but again, the rest of the team kept collapsing.

You agreed that Tendulkar played defensively in 1999 & counter yourself that he was aggressive. In games that MATTERED the big three lacked aggression more often than not. One or two swallows dont make a summer

[kumble_rocks]

What's the big deal about aggression anyway? I reckon we have fallen for the hype generated by our neighbours about meat, aggression, Pathanisms, Punjabisms, etc. This is rubbish, IMO. The greatest fast bowlers and batsmen never said much- just let their bat or ball do the talking- Richards, Lara, Tendulkar, Marshall, Ambrose, Imran come to the mind. Imran, I remember, gently raised his arms and walked down the pitch after taking a wicket. Never said a word. Aggression you have to feel inside. You don't have to make a show of it. I think Sachin is one of the most aggressive batsman I've ever seen. At his pomp, the bowler didn't know where to pitch to him. Some of you guys are falling for the testosterone fuelled celebrations that our Hollywood style cricketers have put up recently. Don't forget that they are playing to an audience of half a billion TV viewers back home. There's a lot of sponsorship money at stake, and grandstanding of this sort catches the eye of advertisers.

Excellent Post Dhondy ! Couldn't have said any better. Guys like Richards were aggressive without indulging in excessive and needless sledging . Heck the great Windies team of the 70's and 80's were very aggressive but more often than not , it was their bat or ball and not mouth which did most of the talking. Anyways, I doubt if Richards could mouth anyway because of all the gum he chews !:D

[Predator_05]

Irrelevant. I claimed Tendu played out maidens' date=' u countered saying he did not. Feel free to read the thread a few more times.[/quote'] You said that he played out maiden after maiden against McGrath during the entire tour. Which is of course, bullsh*t.

Clutching at straws' date=' eh ? Why cant i claim this after reading a match report or an article on rediff ?[/quote'] ...because match reports are opinionated, that is why. If you watch the match yourself, you know exactly what happened minus the spin. Why do you think the cricinfo authors get so much stick on here at times ?

In games that MATTERED the big three lacked aggression more often than not. One or two swallows dont make a summer

What bullsh*t. The ICC champions trophy knockout match in 2000 wasn't an important game ? The matches in the 2001 series didn't matter ? The world cup games in 1996 or 2003 when he clearly got the better of McGrath didn't matter ?

[Guest dada_rocks]

shanti balakon

[Bumper]

Excellent Post Dhondy ! Couldn't have said any better. Guys like Richards were aggressive without indulging in excessive and needless sledging . Heck the great Windies team of the 70's and 80's were very aggressive but more often than not ' date=' it was their bat or ball and not mouth which did most of the talking. Anyways, I doubt if Richards could mouth anyway because of all the gum he chews !:D[/quote'] The word "Aggression" as its used in many posts on this thread, is not how i would define it. To me aggression has got nothing to do with sledging or abuse or frightening mannerisms. Its to do with the mental approach to the game. We came out all guns blazing yesterday without having to stare at a bowler or abuse anybody. Our big three have gifted the opponents several games from vantage positions, by simply not being aggressive enough. You cant deny this!

[Bumper]

You said that he played out maiden after maiden against McGrath during the entire tour. Which is of course, bullsh*t.

No i did not. You chose to read it that way. Remember comprehension skills that we talked about the day, never mind you cant remember anything.:haha:

...because match reports are opinionated, that is why. If you watch the match yourself, you know exactly what happened minus the spin. Why do you think the cricinfo authors get so much stick on here at times ?

Whats playing out maiden overs gotta do with the writer's opinion ? It is a fact, there is nothing subjective about it.

What bullsh*t. The ICC champions trophy knockout match in 2000 wasn't an important game ? The matches in the 2001 series didn't matter ? The world cup games in 1996 or 2003 when he clearly got the better of McGrath didn't matter ?

ICC CT 2000 is the only game that matters. One swallow does not make a summer and all that! Should i list the numerous finals, knockouts and other must win games, where we choked pu$$y marching ?

[Lurker]

So you had no response to the two scorecards of aggression I put up there? And claim yourself a winner?

I had already answered that when I mentioned that you were talking unadulterated bull. Let me repeat once again. The credentials of SRT and Dravid is NOT under question, I repeat NOT under question. Which jacka$$ fan would claim that Yuvraj Singh is a better batsman than Dravid or SRT?? That being said what is also true about SRT and Dravid is that they have never, in their long career, shown the kind of naked aggression that the current youngster lot is showing and it is time the youngsters are given props for that. Am I clear now?

What do you want to know about the Dravid-Slater incident? Since both us will claim the other side came out on top, what is the point of arguing over it?

You are essentially being stubborn here. There is no freaking way you can look at that video and argue that Dravid comes on top. But for the sake of argument I shall let you have your word, please go ahead and show me why you think Dravid comes out on top. I have put the video, give me the minutes, second etc where you thing Dravid does to Slater what Yuvraj did to Freddie. And please dont go all typical with a "His bat did the talking".

Let's talk of bottom lines here.

Redundant. That is not being argued here. If you want to credit Dravid with an all time classic here please open a seperate thread for it. And now I shall question the courage of that another dinasour Sachin tendulkar. Please look at the following video: AF_VA2OK4HU Check for yourself how Ponting humiliates SRT. yes this is the same SRT that is 1) Most popular foreign cricketer in Australia 2) Claimed by Bradman as the person who played like him 3) Accepted by players like Steve Waugh, Shane Warne as the greatest they felt. Please look at the video and tell me why as an Indian fan I should not expect Sachin to say atleast something like this - "Hold on son, just who the F.UCK do you think you are talking to here?". And spare me the high moral road please. Why should I not give props for someone like Yuvraj and current lot. Over to you. xxxx

[kumble_rocks]

The word "Aggression" as its used in many posts on this thread' date=' is not how i would define it. To me aggression has got nothing to do with sledging or abuse or frightening mannerisms. [b']Its to do with the mental approach to the game. We came out all guns blazing yesterday without having to stare at a bowler or abuse anybody. Our big three have gifted the opponents several games from vantage positions, by simply not being aggressive enough. You cant deny this!

With all due respect , I think you are being too harsh on Tendulkar and Dravid . You have to be mentally strong to have away average more than home in test cricket. And coupled with the fact that this average is over 50 for both Tendulkar or Dravid , the question begs , why question their mental approach. And like other posters who have already alluded to this fact , Tendulkar of 90's would intimidate bowlers with his bat not mouth. More often than not , he would come better off in his duels with the bowlers. Heck , he was able to silence garrulous Aquib Javed or Warne or in the case of Dravid , he was able to shut up the great Allan Donald in SA of all the places when being sledged. I think you are justified to question the leadership skills of Dravid compared to Dhoni who does appears to be calm and collected more in the Steve Waugh mold , that's about it. But to suggest that the big three were not aggressive enough , is being tad bit too harsh imo. But one thing I got to agree with you would be the fact that the Tendulkar or Dravid would not have replicated Yuvi's actions (waving of bat ) against Flintoff the other day . The thuggery element is missing in them .

[Predator_05]

Yeah, just like you don't know sh*t about cricket - mr. Johnny-Come-Lately, the match report reader. :haha:

Thanks for the certification Mr. Know All (cannot remember Jack :haha:). I was almost dying for your approval, you know!

The way you present the facts is subjective. Notice how you are taking a simple fact and turning it into a crock of sh*t - going on about off-stump line and all that other crap. All because you never watched the match.

You remember jack about what transpired yesterday and heap bull dust here on what u witnessed 8 years ago.:haha:

Do you want me to give you numerous examples of when India haven't ? World Cup games don't matter ? Wow. Talk about a jaundiced opinion.

Didnt i mention knock outs, must wins, semis, finals etc ? Which part of it wasnt clear ?

Seriously, i feel like i am debating a p@ki.

I feel like i am debating an amnesia hit Indian fan!

[The Outsider]

One swallow does not make a summer and all that!

And yet on the basis of this swallow in a hit and giggle format which the Aussies themselves said they did not take as seriously as they should have minus McGrath and Warne, the young aggressors have become messiahs!!!!:hysterical::hysterical:

[Gaurav]

Abhe kya lad rahe ho tum loge? Tomorrow is India ka final!!!!! Let us say CHAK DE INDIA!!!!!!!