Cold hard numbers ... the response

[The Outsider]

How is 29 a good average ? Are you saying that had SRT had a avg of 29 this thread would not have existed ? Why this penchant for indulging in pedantics ?

Why are you missing the point deliberately? Is India close to being the second best team in the world. I expect my top players to raise their game when confronted with the best in the world, not cower away. Else, what's the difference between a Tendulkar and an Inzamam?

Again will you support the call for dropping Ponting as he avgs a pitifull 12 in Tests IN India on those same grounds

Why would I? I am an Indian supporter.

And BTW SRT was the second(or maybe third) highest scorer in the Test series against SAF and was the Man of the series in the ODI series against SAF ... but wait the usual cherry picking of "Pollock wasnt there" to suit your therories will get thrown around and which is when it becomes more of a witch hunt rather than a objective criticism and hence I step in to deal with such nonsense.

I am strictly talking about ODIs here. Please don't play this obfuscating game with me. And yes, as someone who claims to know a bit about cricket I can safely say that Pollock has a wood on Tendulkar in ODIs recently. You might wish to sidestep that. And no, Pollock has not been dropped from the ODI team, again trying to play the obfuscating game by muddling up tests, ODIs, and T20s.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[siddhu]

I agree with BB that Sachin inspite of "zillion" comebacks due to injuries have been the best performer (or one of the best). I also agree that SRT is not his usual self against Aus anymore. Quote by shwetabh What potshots? Why should someone who is averaging 20 against the best team in the world not be criticized? Has he by his previous deeds earned a life long berth in the Indian side irrespective of performance? Shwetabh, if we are not the second best side in the world then Pontings average against us should have been much higher compared to 29 and 12 in tests. We have been at our lowest points and the highest yoyoing between 3-7 (in both formats). Aus is really lucky that they have so many performers so consistently and that they have been winning consistently without his performance. Now RD also averages 17 and SG a 21 against Aus in last 10 matches. i have not checked Yuvi's or Dhoni's average but i am pretty sure it is not much higher than these guys. So then why only Sachin is being castigated. (inspite of him being highest scorers in the recent 2 series). just because we lose against them is it Sachin's fault. Aus have consistently scored 300+ against us. But I would persist with him because we have a greater chance of success against Aus with him around than without him. GG, Uthappa or Karthik have blown hot and cold over the few chances they have got. But i don't think they have in them (YET) to take it to the next level. I do not agree dropping him or any senior based on what we have seen in 20-20 and a couple of failures. We beat Aus in just one match and people started to think that we have a world beater team... I hate to burst their bubble. Look at how all the youngsters are whining about the "harsh words" or "abuses" sent by Aussies like sissies... I hardly doubt they will be able to stand against the Aussies in Aus. Aus will eat them alive... But that is a different issue altogether and warrants another thread.

[The Outsider]

What has the team ranking got anything to do with what we are discussing.

A lot. Great players are supposed to raise their game when confronted with tough opposition. Tendulkar, Ganguly, and Dravid have been consistently failing to so over the last few years.

And no Pollock isnt any better than the new kids .... but had he been around in place of someone else - say Nel or Ntini -.... nothing would stop you from saying Nitin or Nel were missing ... whats the point of such selective picking of facts.

It's a simple observation that Pollock has had a wood on Tendulkar recently going by the matches that I watched and Pollock is still one of the best bowlers in ODIs. Feel free to refer his recent averages, economy rates, or rankings.

but the point is do u see how absurd it is to drop players because they havent performed against a particular opposition in the past while they have made truckloads against the rest ?

It's just not any odd opposition we are talking about. We are talking about the best team in the world here. It's there performance against the best teams and in tough conditions which made Tendulkar and Lara the best of their generation. If Tendulkar continues to lose his battles against Australia in the future he will be moving in the Inzamam bracket.

[The Outsider]

Now RD also averages 17 and SG a 21 against Aus in last 10 matches

True and as I've said in other posts as well, they also need to be phased out. They have collectively lost the will to battle and succeed against Australia.

Look at how all the youngsters are whining about the "harsh words" or "abuses" sent by Aussies like sissies... I hardly doubt they will be able to stand against the Aussies in Aus. Aus will eat them alive...

So what? Let them grow and learn the hard way. They can't do any worse than what we are doing right now. The last time we beat Australia was almost 4 years back.

[siddhu]

I don't think they will be learning anything if they stay timid the way they are acting right now... talking big before the match and whining after the match (just to cover their asses). a certain shoaib akhtar comes to mind. i prefer the old sachin way.. not talk at all and then make the bat do all the talking. but sadly right now his bat is not doing the talking as it used to. I certainly hope that in the rest of the 4 matches it does for atleast a couple of matches.

[The Outsider]

I certainly hope that in the rest of the 4 matches it does for atleast a couple of matches.

There lies the difference. We are reduced to hope for Tendulkar performing against the Aussies. In the past, it was a certainty, that a couple of failures would mean that Australia had it coming for them soon.

[siddhu]

right.. but then how is it different from what we would be expecting from the youngsters...they don't have much experience playing against Aus and from the looks of it, they won't have much either. plus it is not easy to chase 300+ targets with all the youngsters...

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Guest BossBhai]

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[Guest BossBhai]

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[kabira]

stop fighting read this from ponting and LYAO Our batting's pretty settled at the moment," Ponting said. "We had a tough decision to make, leaving Haddin out in the first place and leave Hodge in the side. But Hodge has a record that has stood up well over a two-year period. He has trained really well today so if he gets an opportunity tomorrow I think he'll get runs."

[Guest BossBhai]

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[bharat297]

Ok ... Pakistan should drop Shoaib Malik because he averages 22 against Australia in the past 10 matches. Who cares if the matches were spread over 5 years. lol Is it safe to say there is not a great difference between 22 and 21? Or once again will people interpret that to mean I think there is no difference between 22 and 21.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[bharat297]

By the way ... what does it matter if India are not the 2nd best team in the world. The 2nd best team in the world changes every 5 matches nowadays. Do you think Ponting walked out to the crease thinking ... "India arent the 2nd best team in the world, so its ok for me to do crap ... Im just going to let that ball hit the stumps" If he is doing that and still getting paid ... well then thats a different issue and he should be kicked out of the game.

[The Outsider]

You guys are completely missing the point here. Does Tendulkar deserve a spot in the Indian lineup on performance alone? Yes. I never disputed that. My argument is that there is very little he has to offer to the team in terms of long term goals and even less if he struggles against the Australians. The case for these guys is the experience they bring to the table against a team like Australia. But it has come of no use in the last few years. So whats the point of having them around if they are going to keep on underperforming on the big stage of the CT, WC, and big matches against the best team?

[yoda]

Dropping Tendulkar from the ODI team now does not make sense to me. He has been our best ODI bat. I would start the youth movement by immediately dumping one Saurav-ball-sucking-power-play-destroying-dependent-on-SRT-to-blaze-to-look-good Ganguly. I believe RD would quit from the ODIs by himself soon (within the next 12 months) before becoming a drag on the team.

[Holysmoke]

Dropping Tendulkar from the ODI team now doesn't not make sense to me. He has been our best ODI bat.

Oh Boy, where is lurker when you need him :haha:

[The Outsider]

Yeah and the phasing out should not happen all of a sudden. As yoda said, Ganguly should go first, followed by Dravid, and then Tendulkar. I think they all want a last shot at the CT next year.