Choker from the start?

[The Outsider]

Nah..but I would probably add 20 runs to his average per innings for his fielding...if you insist Salil.

:hysterical::hysterical: This is becoming a laugh riot!!!

[Lurker]

OMFG!!! This is the list you came up with after such deep research!!! One of them he has 5/32 and in two of them he is the second highest scorer from India. It probably doesn't meet Gambit's criteria of 40 runs by a couple of runs, but even you got to admit this list is hillarious!!

What research? Its all out there on CI :tounge_smile: just move the cursor around will you! I thought you had initiated this mud-raking thread on Yuvraj with stats on batting Shwetabh, where does the bowling come out suddenly? As for the batting I asked Gambo what his definition of meaningless contribution was, if he is okay with that I am not sure your issues with it really. By the by did you realize that post 2000/01 when Yuvi and SRT have played side by side the batting average of the two in finals is 18 and 27 and not what you suggested before? Any comments on that? xxx

[Lurker]

1. Why are you using stats since you hate them so much as per your own statements ?

The last time I checked this thread is specifically about comparing players on their performances. Do you see anyone describe a flick off the backfoot here? If not arent you guilty of butting in with the usual "Ah but you hate statistics" and all the rhetoric?

2. And didnt you try to ridicule me when we were comparing SRT's lean period with Pontings and it turned out that Ponting had a avg that was just 2 points above SRT ?

Refresh my memory on this one.

[Lurker]

Can you explain the logic' date=' and also then uggest a similar number to add for Tendulkar, who until a few years ago was an outstanding fielder, and now still remains very sharp?[/quote'] The comment was in light vein but comparing the two yes I would rate Yuvraj as a much better fielder vis a vis Sachin. The triad that Yuvraj, Kaif, Raina formed during Chappell's time was easily one of the reason why we won as many games as we did, cant recall Sachin doing that really. As for him remaining sharp I dont agree with that. He is a safe fielder, nothing flashy but does his job very well. Hardly sharp. xxx

[The Outsider]

I thought you had initiated this mud-raking thread on Yuvraj with stats on batting Shwetabh, where does the bowling come out suddenly? As for the batting I asked Gambo what his definition of meaningless contribution was, if he is okay with that I am not sure your issues with it really.

No mud raking, just pointing out that Yuvraj isn't the messiah that some of you are trying to portray here. I don't even have issues with that but the lot of you have started rewriting history. That is something I have issues with. I even said in my earlier posts in the thread that the big 3 have not done well in finals in this decade, but the supposed saviours of our team have done even worse. We have been able to beat Australia maybe a couple of times since Tendulkar playing without a significant contribution from him and you think by dumping him we will suddenly start challenging them. The aim of the OP was to shatter those notions that some of you have here, but it seems they have served no purpose. Yuvraj gets the benefit of doubt of finding his feet for seven years!!!

By the by did you realize that post 2000/01 when Yuvi and SRT have played side by side the batting average of the two in finals is 18 and 27 and not what you suggested before? Any comments on that?

1. In post #3 no where did I comment that they were numbers from 2000 onwards or anything. They were career ODI final averages. 2. In post #5, I did state their averages 2000 onwards and also that they were poor. Any comments on falsely accusing me of intellectual dishonesty?

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Lurker]

No mud raking, just pointing out that Yuvraj isn't the messiah that some of you are trying to portray here. I don't even have issues with that but the lot of you have started rewriting history.

Not sure whom are you talking about(making messiah and all that) but if you ask me I definitely shall argue that Yuvraj is India's MVP in the past 2 years(LOI). His numbers are much better than SRT and many of his innings have typically came late down the order, which I personally respect more than the runs at the top.

That is something I have issues with. I even said in my earlier posts in the thread that the big 3 have not done well in finals in this decade, but the supposed saviours of our team have done even worse.

Faulty logic there. The supposedly saviours as you mention are two, and only two - Yuvraj and Dhoni. Yuvraj I have argued already that he is currently India's best LOI player. Dhoni has played 90 LOI in total, and his average is a good 9 runs greater than SRT at the same stage. Whom did I leave out?

1. In post #3 no where did I comment that they were numbers from 2000 onwards or anything. They were career ODI final averages. 2. In post #5, I did state their averages 2000 onwards and also that they were poor. Any comments on falsely accusing me of intellectual dishonesty?

I am not able to understand this. You are telling me that you realized that Yuvraj and Sachin both's record post 2000 sucks but still created this thread? That itself smacks of intellactual dishonesty, dont you see that? . xxx

[Lurker]

And why are you using Stats to do that ?

And why not? You seem to be talking as you own the stats!! Seriously mate if I decide to talk about stats, use it in my arguments etc just what makes you think that I owe you an explanation huh?

No rhetoric vetoric ... just checking how you keep switching fences.

Yeah yeah yeah...Stay clear of such useless antics else we both know where this thread shall end.

Refershed .... http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=10731&page=4

So let me get this straight. 1) In the worse form of Ponting's career he STILL averages better than SRT's worst. (37 against 32) 2) Ponting's loss in form was for a season(two tops), Sachin's form(or the lack thereof) is over a period of 7 years (2000 and counting). Do you see a difference here ace? If you can show me that Ponting's loss of form occured over similar ranging years you may have a point else this comparison itself is ridiculous. xxx

[The Outsider]

I definitely shall argue that Yuvraj is India's MVP in the past 2 years(LOI). His numbers are much better than SRT and many of his innings have typically came late down the order, which I personally respect more than the runs at the top.

I don't have any problems agreeing with that. If he is India's MVP he should play like one. I made this point earlier in the thread as well. Look at what the results were when Tendulkar/Ganguly were our MVPs and when Yuvraj is our MVP. Our MVP has crashed us out of the first round of the CT and WC in a matter of months.

The supposedly saviours as you mention are two, and only two - Yuvraj and Dhoni. Yuvraj I have argued already that he is currently India's best LOI player. Dhoni has played 90 LOI in total, and his average is a good 9 runs greater than SRT at the same stage.

They are already playing. Tendulkar is not keeping them out.

I am not able to understand this. You are telling me that you realized that Yuvraj and Sachin both's record post 2000 sucks but still created this thread? That itself smacks of intellactual dishonesty, dont you see that? .

There are different degrees of sucking. Average of 27 is a batsman doing poorly over 11 games. Average of 18 over 15 games, well we might as well play Pathan instead of him. And anyhow, why the holy grail of 2000 for Tendulkar. If Yuvraj goes down Tendulkar's path of performance in ODI finals, we are looking at single digits here!!

[Guest Yograj Singh]

YOU PEOPLE ARE ALL MAD! DEAR YUVI IS NOT A CHOKER! He is a masterful stroke player who is capable of destroying every bowling attack God puts in front of him. It is only the fault of these one eyed Bombayites who cannot stand any criticism to their batsmen or selectors that he does not get the recognition he deserves. With the talent he has (and what I have taught him), he should be batting at number 4 in tests for good by this stage - that was the whole reason behind me throwing out his roller skates and banning him from playing football and tennis. But instead he is stuck batting in the wrong positions too far up or down the order, and having everyone pick on his every failure rather than appreciating the start of a great North Indian batting lineage!

[Lurker]

I don't have any problems agreeing with that. If he is India's MVP he should play like one. I made this point earlier in the thread as well. Look at what the results were when Tendulkar/Ganguly were our MVPs and when Yuvraj is our MVP. Our MVP has crashed us out of the first round of the CT and WC in a matter of months.

Interesting. So now I see Yuvraj Singh is to be blamed for India being out of WC :hysterical:. Right..please continue.

They are already playing. Tendulkar is not keeping them out.

Did not get this. When you mention saviour did you mean players apart from Yuvraj/Dhoni. If so who are these saviours and who have tagged them thus?

There are different degrees of sucking. Average of 27 is a batsman doing poorly over 11 games. Average of 18 over 15 games, well we might as well play Pathan instead of him.

Thats fine by me. 27 and 18 dont make a big deal to me personally, more so since they have all happened in the first 3-4 years of Yuvraj(cant remember him playing finals recently really). xx

[Lurker]

He is a masterful stroke player who is capable of destroying every bowling attack God puts in front of him. It is only the fault of these one eyed Bombayites who cannot stand any criticism to their batsmen or selectors that he does not get the recognition he deserves.

Easy there mate, no need to get jingoistic or anything. People like Sachin for what he has done not where he lives...And yes Yuvraj is capable of destroying most attacks.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Guest Yograj Singh]

Easy there mate' date=' no need to get jingoistic or anything. People like Sachin for what he has done not where he lives...And yes Yuvraj is capable of destroying most attacks.[/quote'] Nahi yaar, Tendulkar still got an easy ride being from Bombay. Us Northies always get the short end of the stick. Look at poor Yuvi, capable of destroying any bowler in the world in the span of a few overs - just ask Khaled Mahmud - and still can't get into the test side. Sadly taking after his father in that regard... got a fellow out who was considered good enough to coach India on my debut... even then I never played again. :cry_smile:

[The Outsider]

Interesting. So now I see Yuvraj Singh is to be blamed for India being out of WC :hysterical:. Right..please continue.

As MVP and set at the crease didn't he throw away his wicket against BD and ran himself out against SL. MVPs don't do that. MVPs do what Ganguly and Tendulkar did for a decade. MVP #2 scored 2 ducks against BD and SL.:hysterical:

If so who are these saviours and who have tagged them thus?

You tell me. If you going to drop Tendulkar on non performance shouldn't you have some better alternatives in mind?

more so since they have all happened in the first 3-4 years of Yuvraj(cant remember him playing finals recently really).

Yeah, because since poster boy has donned the mantle of our MVP we have even stopped crossing the first round of tournaments. I don't think there is any point carrying this further. If you are using conflicting logic like learning the ropes and MVP for the same player, I don't what more I can say. Fact remains, we have been able to beat Australia a grand total of 2 times without a significant Tendulkar contribution in 18 years!!! If something as glaring as that doesn't hit you nothing will.

[Lurker]

ohhh no no .... just extend the same courtesy to others when we are discussing stats instead of jumping in and making adhominem attacks such as "Stats are for the Cricket Illeterate" etc etc .... Same can be said about you.

Hahahaha so thats what it is about. It pinched you didnt it. :hysterical: You are obviously blind BB. I also clearly said it takes a lot of effort and I appreciate that but trust the blind-as-bats to not read that portion. It is interesting how really convoluted your sight is, I mean here is a thread largely about stats and you have issues with me talking about stats. Man o man. That remark, cricket illiterate, was good one(note to self :hysterical: )

How did you arrive at that "ace" ? here are SRT's numbers from Jan-2000 onwards

67  111  11  5309 248* 241* 201*  53.09  15  22   6

Did you not just quote a thread where Sachin's stats were for his last 21 tests or so? Where did we go back to 2000 now? Let me tell you more detail so you understand it better now. 1) Comparison 1(of Sachin vs Ponting) was to show two players having a bad run of form. The dataset would be over a season(or two tops). 2) Comparison2(of Yuvraj and Sachin in finals) is circa 2000. A good solid 7 years(or seasons if you will). While the former can atleast be addressed as a drop in form for 1 season, the latter is a case of sucking over 7 years. Makes sense now? xxx

[The Outsider]

I think I know who Yograj Singh is.:hysterical:

[Lurker]

As MVP and set at the crease didn't he throw away his wicket against BD and ran himself out against SL. MVPs don't do that. MVPs do what Ganguly and Tendulkar did for a decade. MVP #2 scored 2 ducks against BD and SL.

And the modern MVP scored twice the runs more than oldie geriatric MVP. So there :tounge_smile: By the by I also checked the CT records and turns out Yuvraj topped the batting average then with 54 so not sure what you were on about.:tounge_smile:

You tell me. If you going to drop Tendulkar on non performance shouldn't you have some better alternatives in mind?

I have adressed this before already to Gambo. We are not gonna get another Sachin period. Forget getting a 15000 runs scorer with 44. Obviously if we do get someone I would be greatly delighted but it won be easy. I would be happy if we get a 10,000 run player@40 and I think people like Yuvraj/Dhoni/Uthappa are all good set for that.

I don't think there is any point carrying this further. If you are using conflicting logic like learning the ropes and MVP for the same player, I don't what more I can say.

There is really not much you can say. Yuvraj has come into his own in past year or two, there is no way you can compare him to a player who has played close to 20 years.

Fact remains, we have been able to beat Australia a grand total of 2 times without a significant Tendulkar contribution in 18 years!!! If something as glaring as that doesn't hit you nothing will.

Huh? I thought I had given 5 examples as was asked. The only issue, if that, was when Sachin did not score runs but took wickets. I find that argumentative instead of fact since we are clearly talking about batting here but hey feel free to assume whatever you feel like. xxx

[The Outsider]

Huh? I thought I had given 5 examples as was asked. The only issue, if that, was when Sachin did not score runs but took wickets. I find that argumentative instead of fact since we are clearly talking about batting here but hey feel free to assume whatever you feel like.

In one of them, he took 5/32, a match winning performance by any standards. In two more of them he was the second highest scorer from India. That's how bizarre your compilation was. Even if we were to take out the bowling match (which I find wierd because if Yuvraj had taken a five for against Australia, you would not have hesitated to count him as a match winner for that match), we are left with 3 matches in 18 years. Yeah, the future is so bright!!! We'll be regularly challenging Australia after ridding ourselves of Mr. Geriatric!!

And the modern MVP scored twice the runs more than oldie geriatric MVP. So there :tounge_smile: By the by I also checked the CT records and turns out Yuvraj topped the batting average then with 54 so not sure what you were on about.:tounge_smile:

MVPs are supposed to rise to occasions and deliver near single handed wins when the support cast fails, like Tendulkar and Ganguly did for one decade.

I would be happy if we get a 10,000 run player@40 and I think people like Yuvraj/Dhoni/Uthappa are all good set for that.

All of them are already playing. Tendulkar is keeping none of them out.

[Guest BossBhai]

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