Tendulkar likely to be India's Test captain!!

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Bumper]

Whats with this "minus bangladesh" ? Are the runs scored against some sort second class runs or something ?

You really want me answer this or is this just a rhetorical question triggered by frustration ? Cheap runs against Bangladesh dont count for obvious reasons. They hardly point to a batsman's ability to score runs against even half decent test opponents. If you want proof, start looking at an average test batsman's average against Bangladesh & then compare it with what he averages against other opponents.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Bumper]

Bumps I see that SRT is the second highest run getter ... next only to RD even though he played 8 inngs lesser than RD . I will give you another glaring fault in those numbers .... MSD has scored about 100 runs lesser than SRT while having played 4 more inngs than SRT . Same with VVS (40 runs lesser in 4 more inngs) Do you see the problem with your logic ?

These are just excuses Boss to make some mediocre numbers look decent. Bottom line is he is OUR TENTH BEST, not even in the top 5. Jeez, this guy is a top order bat, plays in the team because he was an all time great. How do you explain dropping Ganguly, Laxman, Sehwag, Yuvraj et al ahead of this man ?

[Ram]

You really want me answer this or is this just a rhetorical question triggered by frustration ? Cheap runs against Bangladesh dont count for obvious reasons. They hardly point to a batsman's ability to score runs against even half decent test opponents. If you want proof, start looking at an average test batsman's average against Bangladesh & then compare it with what he averages against other opponents.

I dont agree. Any sort of runs scored in international cricket IS runs that HAVE to be counted when you are going to play a numbers game. Its not like if Sachin hadnt scored those runs , somebody else would have and we would have made those same massive runs. If we are to start discounting players' records for "poor opposition" , then a lot of players would be left hard-done. This logic of cutting off the runs against BD just doesnt make sense. Ask any cricketer and he would say that " runs are runs, no matter what". Somebody has to make them and Sachin made them that day, as simple as that.

[Ram]

These are just excuses Boss to make some mediocre numbers look decent. Bottom line is he is OUR TENTH BEST, not even in the top 5. Jeez, this guy is a top order bat, plays in the team because he was an all time great. How do you explain dropping Ganguly, Laxman, Sehwag, Yuvraj et al ahead of this man ?

10th best ? Even when it has been pointed out that he is no.2 in the overall list , with 4 innings less than Dravid and players with supposedly higher averages have sometimes played only half the innings as he did. Somewhere , something doesnt add up.

[Bumper]

the problem is you will not be as lenient on someone if he were to fail against BD ....

If batsman A fails against all opponents & makes runs against BD, then those cheap runs dont count If batsman A succeeds against majority of the opponents and fails to score against BD, those failures dont count. If batsman A fails against every opponent & fails against BD as well, who'd like to carry such a useless bat ?

[Bumper]

10th best ? Even when it has been pointed out that he is no.2 in the overall list , with 4 innings less than Dravid and players with supposedly higher averages have sometimes played only half the innings as he did. Somewhere , something doesnt add up.

No. 2 in the overall list ? Hullo! Tendulkar is a top order bat, he is gonna get a chance to bat almost every single innings we get to bat. So obviously he would score more runs than other bats in the lower order. Would we be glorifying a player as the greatest, if he breaks Allan Border's records for total runs averaging 35 in 250 Tests ?

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Bumper]

So batsman A scores 33, 35, 37, averaging 35.00 in 3 innings with total # runs: 105 Batsman B scores 57, 43 in two innings, with an average of 50, totalling 100 runs. Batsman A has bettered Batsman B right ?

[Bumper]

what excuses Bumps .... Iam going by your own numbers ... Test matches are won by runs and wkts not averages .... and Iam not trying to make some cheap rhetorical statments .... fact is he has made more runs than everybody except RD .... Wait a minute how is JAffer's Avg higher than SRT when he has lesser runs in same no of inngs (and he doesnt even have a not out) . I think there is some miscalculation there ..

My bad, Tendulkar's total runs 1016 is inclusive of BD. Minus BD it falls to 762, so the total runs theory too is blown out of the water:haha: Even interms of no. of runs (which is a ridiculous metric) he is SIXTH in the list

[bharat297]

Man i dunno who should be the test captain cuz lot of the names poppng up for captaincy dun even hve their place for certain liek dhoni, laxman,kumble etc..even tendulkars form in tests is crap lately but i guess it will be alrite to give it to him cuz he wont be dropped for next 10 games CUZ OF GUTLESS SELECTORS and his position is certain atleast. so i think this move is alrite but in my opinion he doesnt deserve it BASED ON HIS PATHETIC CURRENT FORM AS POINTED OUT BY BUMPER.

These sort of comments speak for themselves. :hysterical: Any commentator, worth his salt, including everybody's god, Ian Chappell, will tell you that when a great player is truly in form, it doesnt matter what type of cricket they are playing, they will score runs. Since world cup 07, Sachin has not put a foot wrong. I dont care about some stupid average of 31 or whatever against non-minnows in 05 and 06 when he was in and out of the side with injury. Y4C is happy to defend Yuvraj for an inconsistent run in Tests accounting for a poor average, but disregards Sachins inconsistent run in 05 and 06. The last time he played a full year of tests without injury (2004), he crossed 1000+ runs that year. This year he has only played 6 tests, and in his last 5 he has made 2 centuries and 2 fifties and the 2 fifties in England really set up the match for India and put India in a match-winning position. His form has only gotten better since then. I challenge anyone, to find a respected cricket commentator, anywhere around the world that believes at this moment, Sachin should be dropped from Tests. Anyone? Email Tony Grieg and ask him to discuss this on the Tony Grieg Show on Cricinfo (he'll probably spend the 10 minutes in non-stop laughter). Even on the recent roundtable discussion, not one of them had any doubts that Sachin was still one of Indias best Test batsman and they all agreed his form in England was quite good.

[Bongosamaj]

didnt you say that stats are useless not long ago .... what happened now ?

Yet again, your limited 'binary mode' mind potrays the wrong picture. I never said stats were useless, i said you put way too much gravity on stats and that stats are a rough benchmark. In this case, stats are against Tendulkar and anyone who's seen Tendulkar over the last 10+ years knows that Tendulkar as a test batsman is FINISHED. He struggles to make 50 without giving a chance, makes dibbly dobbly bowlers that Ponting or Gilly whacks without mercy seem like Wasim Akram at his lethal best. Right now, stats are against tendulkar, judgement-call is against tendulkar ( he bats like a hit-or-miss Hansie Cronje/Kepler Wessels, not someone who at one time was second only to Bradman) and he is clearly the weakest link in our batting order. Lets face it- the only reason you want Tendulkar to be in the team is so that an Indian could (for a brief period- Ponting will end up with more test runs than Tendy,you can take that to the bank) hold the world record for most runs again. Ie, putting glory of the individual and chasing records ahead of the team's best interests. Nobody in the Indian team has sucked for as long as Tendulkar has of late and still retained their place- Gangu got dropped, Sehwag got dropped for MUCH less but Tendu is not there in the test team on merit anymore, he is there because he has so much star power and Indians don't have the backbone to disregard 'superstar status' for 'how good you are NOW'. If Tendy was Australian or Saffie or English, he'd have been booted from the test team by now. Its time India did the same, for he is NOT earning his keep and is a liability in the test team. Anyone who denies this is not being impartial or in your case, lacks basic understanding of the game.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Bongosamaj]

and BTW whats the error margin on those stats that you are using in this case ... you must have done some error analysis right ?

?? I am not doing any such thing, since i am not using stats only to base my case. And as per error margins- you are the one to talk, since you decieded to make a case about statistical validity of your ANALYSIS without any error margins. I am not analyzing or extrapolating theories from the stats- simply stating that Tendulkar the test batsman sucks BOLLOCKS as of the last few yrs. There is zero justification of Tendulkar's presence in the Test team NOW. Regardless of how great he was, he is a faded has-been who bats like a mediocre nobody in tests these days. Happens to greats who overstay their welcome. Any questions ? PS: Have you wrapped your head around how statistical inference works, despite your bragging of holding an absurd # of degrees ?

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Bongosamaj]

you forget your now legendary proclamation that AK was better than SRT in the Last series against Eng as he avged far more than SRT

I suggest you keep your lying to a minimum please. Nowhere did i make such an assinine statement. That comes from the park of 'fanatical and idiotic obsession with stats' - a trait more aptly descriptive of you, not me.

. just as you are using SRT's batting avg to go with your opinion

Ofcourse i did. Opinion is all you can form from a game. Doesnt mean all opinions are equal or all opinions are good/bad. DUH!

I was using overall batting avg in that thread ... But you proclaimed that it was not acceptable as there was no error margin analysis done and hence it isnt reliable.

Ofcourse it isnt. Your comments were solely based on stats which as i proved, were useless without error margins. My assessment is based on stats AND opinion, hence i am not bound to such rigorous approach. I didn't claim to produce a work of statistics, you did.

. lets see your error analysis and error margin .... afterall you said that if anybody knows anything about stat analysis it was you since you had the educational grounding.

Right after you produce your error margins and not run away. If i recall correctly, you bragged quite a lot about absurd qualifications, where you are a university-certified engineer cum mathematician cum compsci geek, who not to mention, has had the time and enthu to follow cricket for 30+ years and spend mindboggling hours at a messageboard. So kindly, produce the previously asked error analysis relevant to your 'thesis' before you step out of line and ask for something you yourself have been shown incapable of providing in the past. And as i said, i am not under any compunction to produce the rigorous approach you are demanding- i did not claim that my opinion is solely based on statistics or that this is a statistical analysis event from my part. I am using stats in exact concistency with my stance on stats - they are irrelevant without context and are useful only to form a rough picture. Hence, i provided stats as well as personal observation of the game in itself.

Did you even understand - or "get your head around" - on what was being said and confirmed by Proff ... on that thread ? I suspect not ....

Ofcourse i did. The prof confirmed that i was correct to demand an error analysis when you went around claiming your statistical work had relevance enough to form opinion solely based on stats. He also confirmed my stance - that this is a game, not a field of mathematical study where statistics can be taken very seriously like you tend to do. So next time, try again before you wish to completely twist the truth again- if required, dig up that thread. Hell, i dare you to!

Its best if you stick to a bland tone .... and avoid taking pot shots jibes and such.

Its best if you didn't tell me what to do. You are no longer a moderator- so kindly know your place. You know very well how 'effective' your unsolicited advice on my perceived 'tone' is. If you really are half as smart as you pretend to be, you'd have realized by now how much time you've wasted using that line with me- how many precious seconds/minutes of your life you've wasted typing something over the years that has zero impact or desired result.

[Bongosamaj]

So anyways, before i sign off for the night, i'd again, like a reason why Tendulkar should be in the test team. What has he done of late to merit being in the team ? what has he done in the last 2 yrs in tests to merit a place ? Some meaningless runs against Bangladesh ? string of failures ? Why do we think we can make a good professional team when we are CLEARLY sending the wrong message by showing favouritism to a faded-great ? There is absolutely no reason for Tendulkar to be a part of the test team today- his overall records mean nothing, since overall records say nothing about when you've ceased to be a 'top line' player and when you've started becomming a faded giant now only suitable as minnow-bully. In anycase, this reduces my respect for Tendulkar more than anything- i'd not expected most India fans/BCCI to be sensible about this. But i'd expected Tendulkar to have atleast some pride in himself to realize when his time is up and when he is merely a giant humiliating himself trying to play ball with the new generation, getting owned repeatedly by bowlers who he'd contemptously dismiss in his heydeys without even breaking a sweat.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Bongosamaj]

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?p=147230post147230

Way to misquote me in your usual disingeneous manner. Few posts above, i clearly stated that 'by playing by your rules of assinine statistics, you get to Kumble > Tendulkar last series in England' and the post you quoted is simply a demonstration of it. Why am i a not surprised at your attempt to completely ignore all the points made in my post and then misquote me in your usual manner (that i have often corrected you about, never with you acknowledging your error even once, when proven to be in such).