Roland Garros 2014 - Rafa and Maria are the champs!

[bones]

You are trying to tell me that Natural athletes never get injured? If that's the case then the argument ends there itself. The nursery school poems are the one's which give you your maturity right? But, I read them at the right age.

Federer played 30+ QF in a row over so many years never once injured. Isn't that what a natural athlete does? If Nadal gets injured playing tennis or practising tennis then clearly tennis isn't natural to him? He's not a natural athlete then surely?

[vamos_rafa]

Federer played 30+ QF in a row over so many years never once injured. Isn't that what a natural athlete does? If Nadal gets injured playing tennis or practising tennis then clearly tennis isn't natural to him? He's not a natural athlete then surely?

Do you understand that people can get injured in unfortunate ways also? Or, due to some physical conditions, some injuries can get aggravated. Nadal had something called Kohler's disease but that does not mean he isn't a natural athlete. He had to redo his shoes design for which ?Nike agreed to and that's part of the Rafa series that he wears. Messi also has one some hormonal imbalance so if he gets injured coz of it, isn't he a natural athlete? Do you even understand the meaning of natural athlete? Anyways since you would think that I m cooking up stories, so here's a link for your reference: http://www.columbusfoot.com/blog/post/nadals-rare-foot-problem-almost-lead-to-golf-career.html

[vamos_rafa]

Firstly, if Nadal is playing from the baseline isn't he retrieving as well? I mean you can't be retrieving when you're at the net or serve volleying right? Nadal is playing more aggressive than he used, but the stats show he is still the most defensive of the top 4 and one of the most defensive players on tour, relying more than most on the UE of the opponents. There is an article and I will try and dig it up where it showed of the 8 Quarter finalists, Nadal was the player who earnt the most points due to UE and was hitting far less winners. He is a ugly style of tennis player, very ugly. Moonballing on the PC court and waiting for an easy short ball to put away. Secondly, you've used an example of Sachin which I think is a bad example because in cricket only a fast bowler's job is as gruelling as a tennis player's. Batsmen have it easy really. Regardless of that, you have even put down that it took over 2 years for Tendulkar to start scoring heavily again which further tells us that Nadal coming back from severe injuries and winning big titles so quickly is very suspicious. Even when Tendulkar was scoring heavily during that period, he was never the same player as he was earlier on. Thirdly, Novak in 2011/2012 was a different beast altogether. That's when he found a cure for his illness. Wasn't it so refreshing to see a guy who used to run out of gas in many matches, finally overcome this illness and be free to play tennis the way it should be? His wins in 2011/2012 were a joy to watch, lights out tennis of the highest order. But in that final in sets 4 and 5 there were times he was running out of gas, collapsed after a long rally as well. Nadal should have won that, but it wasn't because of Novak's fitness, it was his own choke when he missed an open court to go up a break in the final set. It's very sad when you think about it, what Novak could have achieved if they found out about his gluton issue earlier in his career. It's equally sad when you thnk about how much the tennis world has lost with DelPo's wrirst problems. Instead the tennis world must watch this "aggressive baseliner" (not a moonballer according to his fans) win tournaments.

If you say that batsman's job isn't gruelling then you haven't held a cricket bat in a proper cricket match. A batsman needs extra ordinary levels of fitness and concentration to bat for longer hours. Sachin's injuries were also a part of wear and tear which every sportsman goes through.

[Raghav_12]

Firstly, if Nadal is playing from the baseline isn't he retrieving as well? I mean you can't be retrieving when you're at the net or serve volleying right? Nadal is playing more aggressive than he used, but the stats show he is still the most defensive of the top 4 and one of the most defensive players on tour, relying more than most on the UE of the opponents. There is an article and I will try and dig it up where it showed of the 8 Quarter finalists, Nadal was the player who earnt the most points due to UE and was hitting far less winners. He is a ugly style of tennis player, very ugly. Moonballing on the PC court and waiting for an easy short ball to put away. Secondly, you've used an example of Sachin which I think is a bad example because in cricket only a fast bowler's job is as gruelling as a tennis player's. Batsmen have it easy really. Regardless of that, you have even put down that it took over 2 years for Tendulkar to start scoring heavily again which further tells us that Nadal coming back from severe injuries and winning big titles so quickly is very suspicious. Even when Tendulkar was scoring heavily during that period, he was never the same player as he was earlier on. Thirdly, Novak in 2011/2012 was a different beast altogether. That's when he found a cure for his illness. Wasn't it so refreshing to see a guy who used to run out of gas in many matches, finally overcome this illness and be free to play tennis the way it should be? His wins in 2011/2012 were a joy to watch, lights out tennis of the highest order. But in that final in sets 4 and 5 there were times he was running out of gas, collapsed after a long rally as well. Nadal should have won that, but it wasn't because of Novak's fitness, it was his own choke when he missed an open court to go up a break in the final set. It's very sad when you think about it, what Novak could have achieved if they found out about his gluton issue earlier in his career. It's equally sad when you thnk about how much the tennis world has lost with DelPo's wrirst problems. Instead the tennis world must watch this "aggressive baseliner" (not a moonballer according to his fans) win tournaments.

Do you even know what is moonballing? Watch this and comeback.

[Raghav_12]

Actually I am. I leave you to your sufferings. So don't seek my attention by quoting me again like you did today. Nadal is not done winning yet, so keep suffering. If I knew any relative of yours I would ask them to put you on proper watch the day Nadal equals 17. Besides there is no point trying to argue with morons like you, that sentence above is a proof of that. That statement alone renders all your arguments useless. You are just a middle aged butthurt fanboy who can't recover from the scars Nadal has caused on you by beating your idol over and over again.

His theories are so outlandish and ridiculous that tomorrow he may post that Nadal's all these wins are part of some alternate reality while in real world he is infact losing - as in real world a player like him can't win- and nobody would think that he less than 100% serious in writing those words. He is a delusionist and I am saying that not to ridicule him or in agitated state of mind but as a matter of fact.

[yoda]

Some interesting read on Tennis and Doping: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/08/tennis-has-a-doping-problem.html

[zep1706]

Some interesting read on Tennis and Doping: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/08/tennis-has-a-doping-problem.html

There is nothing interesting in that article. It is as interesting as the opinions of some of the forum members here.

[yoda]

There is nothing interesting in that article. It is as interesting as the opinions of some of the forum members here.

I did not know that there was widespread rumor/speculation regarding Nadal and doping. May be cause I never suspected that.

[yoda]

If you say that batsman's job isn't gruelling then you haven't held a cricket bat in a proper cricket match. A batsman needs extra ordinary levels of fitness and concentration to bat for longer hours. Sachin's injuries were also a part of wear and tear which every sportsman goes through.

It is all relative. Yes all pro sports players need to be athletic to some extent, however I do agree with those saying batting is definitely less demanding than bowling which is exactly why you have so many bowlers getting injured.

[zep1706]

I did not know that there was widespread rumor/speculation regarding Nadal and doping. May be cause I never suspected that.

There is no "widespread" rumor/speculation, just some usual BS without a shred of substance by the usual suspects.

[yoda]

There is no "widespread" rumor/speculation' date=' just some usual BS without a shred of substance by the usual suspects.[/quote'] That is widespread IMO. Ofc it is speculation, but I wouldn't call it BS, but it is unfair to pile on Nadal without evidence. Problem is guys like Armstrong escaped drug testing, so essentially drug testing apparently doesn't give someone a pass in the eye of public opinion. Solution is either to allow drugs or make testing so strict that no one can escape.

[vamos_rafa]

That is widespread IMO. Ofc it is speculation' date=' but I wouldn't call it BS, but it is unfair to pile on Nadal without evidence. Problem is guys like Armstrong escaped drug testing, so essentially drug testing apparently doesn't give someone a pass in the eye of public opinion. Solution is either to allow drugs or make testing so strict that no one can escape.[/quote'] I think post Armstrong, there's been a lot of cynicism around everything. Same way post match fixing, everything seems rigged. But, yes Tennis does need stricter doping laws. There have been so many calls around so many players. But, till the time no concrete evidence comes out, there's no point speculating.

[vamos_rafa]

There is no "widespread" rumor/speculation' date=' just some usual BS without a shred of substance by the usual suspects.[/quote'] Apparently, there is. That whole Operation whatever was quite a big news.

[Raghav_12]

I think post Armstrong' date=' there's been a lot of cynicism around everything. Same way post match fixing, everything seems rigged. But, yes Tennis does need stricter doping laws. There have been so many calls around so many players. But, till the time no concrete evidence comes out, there's no point speculating.[/quote'] In fact there are lot of talks about bolt also not being clean. Yes there is lot of cynicism.

[zep1706]

That is widespread IMO. Ofc it is speculation' date=' but I wouldn't call it BS, but it is unfair to pile on Nadal without evidence. Problem is guys like Armstrong escaped drug testing, so essentially drug testing apparently doesn't give someone a pass in the eye of public opinion. Solution is either to allow drugs or make testing so strict that no one can escape.[/quote']

[zep1706]

In fact there are lot of talks about bolt also not being clean. Yes there is lot of cynicism.

Both Nadal and Bolt are victims of the bad reputations that their home countries carry. But guilt by association is an ad hominem fallacy peddled by either the gullible minds or people with an agenda, like we have seen here in the last couple of days.

[Muloghonto]

I think we can officially crown Zep as the Nadal fanboy of this forum. Ofcourse there is no major news outlet that discusses this openly- Duh. There is a thing called libel. It is not Nadal's extraodinary fitness that drew the doping rumours. That he is one of the fastest players ever to play the tennis and certainly the fittest in terms of power to stamina ratio, is not contested by anyone. That he is a natural athlete par supreme, is not disparaged by anyone either. What does draw cynicism and in many circles is his unbelievable recovery time and performance.( FYI, I coach tennis in the summer. I've heard plenty of tennis coaches snicker at Nadal first hand. Some of them were tour players themselves) As i said, its simple: One does not go from near-career ending injury in a physically intensive sport to being one of top 3 fit guys on tour while winning everything in less than a year from return. When that happens, odds are 99.99% in favor of him being a dope expert. If he is that 0.01% of top athletes that can make such an extraodrinary comeback, then good for him, but then his fans gotto accept that the rumours of the doping are part of the territorry. Such extreme freaks who can rebound to 99.999999% fitness level of humanity after suffering a major physical injury are once a century freaks. I am no longer young enough to believe that is the case. Time will tell, though.

[vamos_rafa]

I won't call a few articles and blog posts here an there as widespread rumors. None of the articles that have appeared in mainstream has suggested anything about Nadal directly. Rather they are discussing the possibility of doping in general. When Nadal came into the tour, he brought a brand of tennis that was unseen and revolutionary. Nobody played like him and put so much effort to each point at that time. He was the quickest and the fittest guy on tour by far. There was also this notion that Federer was unbeatable but Nadal was able to beat him on the biggest of the stages. That was something totally unexpected for many people. It also contributed to such cynicism-- he must be doing something! But after such a long and successful career most sane people have accepted Nadal's superiority. I don't see any widespread speculation any more. There will always be a few retards writing obscure articles but that doesn't do any harm.

See, you've got to understand one thing. All these news agencies prosper on selling news. They are shameless enough to sell even rumors by stating "insider source". Also, what has happened specialy post Armstrong is that every one who displays superhuman qualities in terms of physical fintess would be under the scanner. And once your name is associated with anything, the jury would forever be out. Plain fact just accept it. I am not trying to sell you that Nadal is a cheat or something. That would be accepted only if something concrete comes against him. But, there's a lot of cynicism around in everything.

[zep1706]

See' date=' you've got to understand one thing. All these news agencies prosper on selling news. They are shameless enough to sell even rumors by stating "insider source". Also, what has happened specialy post Armstrong is that every one who displays superhuman qualities in terms of physical fintess would be under the scanner. And once your name is associated with anything, the jury would forever be out.[/quote'] Which news agencies are you talking about? There have not been any article on mainstream news agencies spreading that kind of rumor about Nadal. There are blogs and unknown writers in the past but even that has decreased as far as I know. As I explained before there was cynicism initially. But Nadal has played long enough going through different phases of his career for that to die down. There will always be the worst kind of insecure Federer fangirls like muloghonto peddling sh!t, but you don't take them seriously, do you? Those people can't even distinguish between a chronic condition and a career-ending injury, which Nadal never had. Spin doctors like him conveniently ignore that after his break in 2009, it took him nearly 8-9 (Aug 2009- April 2010) months to regain his form. So it's better to ignore such intellectually dishonest fanatics. Rumors without any factual evidence can't last forever and that's what happened in this case too.

[vamos_rafa]

Which news agencies are you talking about? There have not been any article on mainstream news agencies spreading that kind of rumor about Nadal. There are blogs and unknown writers in the past but even that has decreased as far as I know. As I explained before there was cynicism initially. But Nadal has played long enough going through different phases of his career for that to die down. There will always be the worst kind of insecure Federer fangirls like muloghonto peddling sh!t, but you don't take them seriously, do you? Those people can't even distinguish between a chronic condition and a career-ending injury, which Nadal never had. Rumors without any factual evidence can't last forever and that's what happened in this case too.

I don't take any of the rumors seriously. I go by whatever is out in the public spheres with proofs. Let them take/think whatever they want to. I am just telling you that these articles/stories can't be avoided.