Help, Dileep, Help

[Bumper]

Am not sure we can assume Bhajji would play ahead of RPS, Dhondy. He's just in the squad. Kumble has seen the trio of RPS, Sree & Zak win a test match in England. Am sure they would get the nod ahead of the 'good for nothing' Bhajj, who cant event pick wickets regularly in ODIs. Its typical of the squad to have 2 spinners & IMO, Bhajji is just there to make up the numbers. I'll be shocked if he plays a test match.

[Bumper]

Just saw that Murali Karthik is in the squad too, three spinners against Pakistan WTF ??!!

[Guest HariSampath]

Relax Dhondy. India are a much better Test side - the bowling combination doesn't matter, as both seamers and spinners are capable of winning India a few tests against this Pakistani outfit - we know that. Don't underestimate the spinners' prowess in these tests India play at home. Even before the SL series in '05, you frowned upon the idea of playing two spinners; creating threads titled "India must opt for pace against SL" - citing their collapses against the combined bowling might of Razzak and Riaz Afridi. What transpired in that test series completely contradicted your prediction as Kumble outshone the chucker by bowling India to victory on his favorite Delhi pitch, and in the following test Harbhajan did the honors by picking up the man of the match award. Needless to say, India wouldn't have won such resounding victories against SL without those two. Have a little more faith in these players. Sure, Bhajji was mauled by Afridi in the last Test series, but every bowler suffered on those roads. Even the ever reliable Kumble was beaten into submission; eventually asking Afridi where he should bowl to him. Likewise with all the seamers. It wasn't until the two teams played at Karachi when the bowlers got some purchase from the wicket. We won't encounter such benign pitches in India, and as a result; Pakistan will lose their sense of security against India's spinners the moment they see the ball turn menacingly in their direction.

Exactly..... he seems to have tunnel vision when it comes to Harbhajan, which is why he just clutches at Bhajjis 15 wkts in 6 games against to make a case for banishing him from ALL test cricket at all times. Doc is completely failing to account for the fact Bhajji picked up 14 wkts against SL in the two tests we won. Plus no addressing the fact that Bhajji has performed as a top spinner for 9 years right up to his last 2 tests where he took 2 fivers... If all these facts and all the career stats I have placed are totally ignored and Bhajji is a "useless tweaker"...etc... what is the point in trying to talk cricket.?

[Dhondy]

Am not sure we can assume Bhajji would play ahead of RPS, Dhondy. He's just in the squad. Kumble has seen the trio of RPS, Sree & Zak win a test match in England. Am sure they would get the nod ahead of the 'good for nothing' Bhajj, who cant event pick wickets regularly in ODIs. Its typical of the squad to have 2 spinners & IMO, Bhajji is just there to make up the numbers. I'll be shocked if he plays a test match.

Well then, Anand Vasu is talking out of his ass, innhe? A punishable offence.

[Bumper]

Well then, Anand Vasu is talking out of his ass, innhe? A punishable offence.

I see one article by Nagaraj G in the cricinfo home page. Where is the "Anand Vasu" story ?

[Guest HariSampath]

Bring Back Sehwag

This is the only sense I see in your post :D And I agree with it totally.

[Bumper]

Exactly..... he seems to have tunnel vision when it comes to Harbhajan' date=' which is why he just clutches at Bhajjis 15 wkts in 6 games against to make a case for banishing him from ALL test cricket at all times. Doc is completely failing to account for the fact Bhajji picked up 14 wkts against SL in the two tests we won. Plus no addressing the fact that Bhajji has performed as a top spinner for 9 years right up to his last 2 tests where he took 2 fivers... If all these facts and all the career stats I have placed are totally ignored and Bhajji is a "useless tweaker"...etc... what is the point in trying to talk cricket.?[/quote'] Hari when has Bhajji done well against Pakistan in recent times ? In 2004, he did not play due to injury. In 2005, he was ordinary to put it mildly. His 5-fers were inconsequential (came in high scoring games) In 2006, he was annihilated. Heck, even in the ODIs when batsmen take risks, Bhajji couldnt buy wickets. Playing Bhajji against Pakistan would be suicidal.

[Guest HariSampath]

My point is the ordinary performances against Pakistan in 2005/6 alone cannot be the criterion for selection , ignoring ALL else he has done

[Bumper]

My point is the ordinary performances against Pakistan in 2005/6 alone cannot be the criterion for selection ' date=' ignoring ALL else he has done[/quote'] What is ALL else ? Only international games he's played after he was dropped were T20s & ODIs. He was merely a containing bowler in these games, when Murali Karthik was picking 6-fers on the other side. Even on his best day (in the last ODI) he finished with just one wicket.

[Guest HariSampath]

What is ALL else ? Only international games he's played after he was dropped were T20s & ODIs. He was merely a containing bowler in these games' date=' when Murali Karthik was picking 6-fers on the other side. Even on his best day (in the last ODI) he finished with just one wicket.[/quote'] ALL means the following. Harbhajan's overall test record as a matchwinning bowler, which is outstanding. Harbhajan's experience and ability to run through top international sides ( eg Steve waugh's Aus) and win entire series. Harbhajan's record when bowling against sides that play spin well, eg Sri Lanka. Harbhajan's performances in the last tests he played which he took 2 fivers and we won the last test too. If you are going to factor in the ODIs for test selection, it doesn't make sense, because even in ODIs his bowling has been brilliant and batsmen largely prefer to play him out to preserve wkts, a hge factor in India winning games... ref recent ODI games, T20 etc So, apart from his 6 matches 15 wkt test record against Pakistan alone in the last 2 series, I see no tangible arguments against his place in the test 11 , enough to outweigh whatever I had put forth above

[Guest HariSampath]

To take that point further, if any players selection criterion is the performances against Pakistan alone in 2005/6, then we should have exactly the same team. If the performance of a player in earlier series against the same team alone justifies his selection, conversely we need to play RP, Zaheer etc only against England in Eng next. By the same token, who do we send to Australia ? My choice will be Ali Irani the former Physio :haha:

[Cricketics]

With the squad selected.. i say that this team should take the field @ Delhi Test Karthik Jaffer Dravid Tendulkar Ganguly Laxman Dhoni Kumble Murali Karthik Zaheer R.p Singh really wanted to play sreesanth too.. heck we can just pick 11

[Bumper]

ALL means the following. Harbhajan's overall test record as a matchwinning bowler, which is outstanding. Harbhajan's experience and ability to run through top international sides ( eg Steve waugh's Aus) and win entire series. Harbhajan's record when bowling against sides that play spin well, eg Sri Lanka. Harbhajan's performances in the last tests he played which he took 2 fivers and we won the last test too.

Wait a sec, am showing his most recent test exploits vs Pak & you consider those irrelevant. But you want to convince me that what he did against Australia (close to half a decade ago) and Lanka (who has never won a test in India) is representative of what is to be expected of him against Pakistan (who have historically shown weaknesses only against leg spin ?). Beats me!

If you are going to factor in the ODIs for test selection, it doesn't make sense, because even in ODIs his bowling has been brilliant and batsmen largely prefer to play him out to preserve wkts, a hge factor in India winning games... ref recent ODI games, T20 etc So, apart from his 6 matches 15 wkt test record against Pakistan alone in the last 2 series, I see no tangible arguments against his place in the test 11 , enough to outweigh whatever I had put forth above

I quoted the ODIs to prove that his recent wicket taking form hasnt improved dramatically. Mind you i was only making relative comparisons with Murali Karthik, who proved to be a match winning spinner in this time. When Bhajji cannot pick wickets, when batsmen are taking risks, what chance does he stand against them in Tests. Younis Khan, MoYo read Bhajji like the back of their hands. Afridi has no respect for Bhajji whatsoever. It would be foolish to play Bhajji solely based on what he did several years ago. He's hardly the same bowler.

[Cricketics]

btw can anyone pull starts of Bajji's performance whenever he is to bowl alongside Kumble?? I feel bajji do well in tests whenever kumble isn't playing.. hence i give the nod to this fella Murali Karthik for bowling alongside murali karthik in ifrst test..

[Bumper]

To take that point further, if any players selection criterion is the performances against Pakistan alone in 2005/6, then we should have exactly the same team. If the performance of a player in earlier series against the same team alone justifies his selection, conversely we need to play RP, Zaheer etc only against England in Eng next. By the same token, who do we send to Australia ? My choice will be Ali Irani the former Physio :haha:

Bhajji record against Pakistan is no good, nor is his recent form in the ODI variety. He's done absolutely nothing to earn a recall to the test lineup

[Guest HariSampath]

Bhajji record against Pakistan is no good' date=' nor is his recent form in the ODI variety. He's done absolutely nothing to earn a recall to the test lineup[/quote'] what did he do to be dropped

[Guest HariSampath]

Bumper, according to your logic, Sachin should be drpped in favor of Sehwag as Viru averages more than 90 against Pakistan and Sachin less than 40 ?

[Guest HariSampath]

Both Yuvi and Sehwag out perform Dravid and Tendulkar applying your criteria, plus Dravid has miserably failed in last 6 test innings for 120 runs and also recent Odi form total failure. so you are saying drop Dravid and Sachin in favor of Sehwag and Yuvi for tests against pakistan ??? also Laxman with 246 runs in last 9 inngs against Pakistan should be dropped ?

[Yuvraj4Captaincy]

Bumper' date=' according to your logic, Sachin should be drpped in favor of Sehwag as Viru averages more than 90 against Pakistan and Sachin less than 40 ?[/quote'] But don't you know that when it comes to Sachin Tendulkar, it is okay to look at the overall record and not his record against Pakistan but when we talk about Harbhajan, we have to look at his record against Pak and not overall and recent performances....Why?....Just because someone don't want him in the team .Records, Statistics etc etc dont matter. They just dont want him in the team...No namer liek Karthik is better than a proven performer just to prove a point. Harbhajan is Indias second best match winning bowler after kumble in tests overall and thats a fact.

[Holysmoke]

Am not sure we can assume Bhajji would play ahead of RPS, Dhondy. He's just in the squad. Kumble has seen the trio of RPS, Sree & Zak win a test match in England. Am sure they would get the nod ahead of the 'good for nothing' Bhajj, who cant event pick wickets regularly in ODIs. Its typical of the squad to have 2 spinners & IMO, Bhajji is just there to make up the numbers. I'll be shocked if he plays a test match.

If bhajji is there to make up the numbers, what is Kartik doing??:eyedance: