Steroid abuse by A & A in Pakistan's AAG attack

[Dhondy]

I am looking forward to AAG arriving in India. With that woman weightlifter being caught for steroid abuse in Asian games, the number of dope cheats in our country will triple in an instant. The difference is she will grow hair on her boobs, and this lot will grow boobs, period.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Ram]

Doc, why so much vitriol ?

[Bumper]

The difference is she will grow hair on her boobs, and this lot will grow boobs, period

Hahaha, sheesh, killer blow. Doc in fine form for the upcoming tour.

[Dhondy]

Doc' date=' why so much vitriol ?[/quote'] Tell you why, Sriram. It's because Pakistani fans unashamedly glory themselves in the "achievements" of these cheats. Had they been Indians, they would probably have been excommunicated, hung and quartered. Those kinds of weak, queasy morality doesn't prevail with our neighnours though. A bit of nandro- that's fine. You want to beat up your fellow dopey with a bat? That's fine too. Just win against India, all's forgiven. We'll even lift martial law just to roll out the moth eaten red carpet and sweep the Kalashnikovs under it.

[MundaPakistani]

Doc' date=' why so much vitriol ?[/quote'] ignore him man. Sad part is that he is fully capable of having intelligent discussion yet he stoops down to a low level just to earn a couple of laughs.

[Mr. Wicket]

ignore him man. Sad part is that he is fully capable of having intelligent discussion yet he stoops down to a low level just to earn a couple of laughs.

Actually, the point he makes in his last post (#30) is quite valid, and its sad how blatant cheating through doping and in Shoaib's case, so many other things can all be immediately forgiven for the big series with India. A real shame, and the way the board has behaved in trying to bail out guilty cheats and trying to behave as if all should be forgotten/forgiven has really soured me on the side.

[Dhondy]

ignore him man. Sad part is that he is fully capable of having intelligent discussion yet he stoops down to a low level just to earn a couple of laughs.

I feel honoured, MP. You sure are the fountain of kindness. Maybe you lot should look into your own gireban, and try and tell black and white apart from each other before deigning to discuss sport, eh? We in India take that kind of thing very seriously, you see.

[Dhondy]

They have a policy of "zero-tolerance", ahahahahahaha!

[Ram]

Tell you why, Sriram. It's because Pakistani fans unashamedly glory themselves in the "achievements" of these cheats. Had they been Indians, they would probably have been excommunicated, hung and quartered. Those kinds of weak, queasy morality doesn't prevail with our neighnours though. A bit of nandro- that's fine. You want to beat up your fellow dopey with a bat? That's fine too. Just win against India, all's forgiven. We'll even lift martial law just to roll out the moth eaten red carpet and sweep the Kalashnikovs under it.

Doc, as they say " the proof of the pudding is in the eating". Do you think any level-headed pakistani fan can ever claim a proper spoils of a victory that had Asif-Akhtar and other cheats in it , with a straight face ? Pakistan, as a nation in itself, needs a lesson in morality. What would you expect of its cricket team ? I have nothing against Pakistan but it hasnt missed my eye too that almost every other day ,some pakistani player is caught up with some controvery, ranging from drug abuse, in-discipline , ball tampering , pitch tampering , team-disunity, match fixing to even willing to ditch the national team for money. But my point is , lets start looking past Pakistan. Our sights/goals must be set higher. Are capabilities are higher. Lets not get our mojo from making jabs at Pakistan.

[Ram]

ignore him man. Sad part is that he is fully capable of having intelligent discussion yet he stoops down to a low level just to earn a couple of laughs.

MP , as much as i dont condone Doc's language , i wish to point to you now - This is what will happen if you guys keep entertaining drug cheats and perennial defaulters. You may, i repeat may, win some cricket matches, but you would have lost a lot of respect in the bargain.

[Bumper]

They have a policy of "zero-tolerance"' date= ahahahahahaha!

We cant blame them for our misunderstanding, Dhondy. Back there, they tolerate all their zeroes:haha:

[Bongosamaj]

Salil he goes on and on about morality lessons yet i have never heard him say a thing about how CA handled M Waugh and Warne's case. I have never heard him say anything about how N Sidhu was allowed to play for the country(since the Indians are so strict about morality and would have hung and quartered any one who took drugs).I don't understand why is it so hard to be fair?

Difference is, in Sidhu or Waugh/Warney case, there wernt enough tangiable evidence. In Akhtar and Asif's case, they are guilty in a court of LAW- or atleast, the evidence is conclusive enough for a court of LAW. Pakistan i find has a very shaky concept of judiciary- largely because they have never had a strong judiciary. By strong i don't mean corruption-free, i mean a system that follows sound judicial principles in its legalese. Problem with Pakistan or most Arab nations (and a large part of their chaos) is that they follow a judicial principle that is 1400 years old with very little revision done to them. You may think this is a potshot at Islam, but really, it is not- it is simply the fact that the principles of legalese is not as well applied in Sharia. For starters, Pakistanis fundamentally approach concepts of judiciary with a religious tilt- where everything (your fate, fate of the world,etc) depends on what you know and accept. However, modern judiciary is NOT a concept of what you know, but what you can PROVE. Hence CA and BCCI applied similar verdicts to Sidhu & Waugh/Warne while Pakistan did the same despite their players being categorically GUILTY.

[kablooee87]

If there's one thing I've learned from visiting ICF, it's that no matter what I do, my actions will almost always reinforce the negative notions ICF posters relate to Pakistanis. At the very best, I may be looked at as the exception to the rule. As far as the the doping issue goes (rehashed once again in a thread about test match pitches), my position is the following: - The biggest mistake the PCB made was "acquitting" these two. As of now, most people say both bowlers got off scott free and no price was paid. The reality: Both bowlers missed the world cup, effectively quashing any hopes Pakistan had of any sort of success in the tournament, along with other matches. Instead, the PCB played games with excuses about injuries and unavailability. I think most people would have been happy if the PCB had banned these two for significant number of matches (which they ended up missing anyway) - After everything, no matter what the PCB did, some people would never accept Asif and Akhtar playing cricket ever again. And although that argument is worth consideration from an unbiased observer, it holds no wait coming from the people it's coming from. They tell themselves that they have such high moral standards and they would never except such behavior from their own players. But I can already hear the "They did their time" excuses coming from all over the world - As far as supporting the two goes, I've loathed Shoaib Akhtar as a person for many years. After the first couple of games against South Africa, I was saddened to categorically realize that Pakistan is still a better team with that man in the XI than without him. As a cricketer, I think the guy is awesome. As a human being, scum. I wish people like Rao Iftikar and Yasir Arafat had the out and out talent that he has. So we could see the combination of good work ethic, good attitude, AND breakthrough talent. But that's not how God made the world I suppose (uh oh, he mention God, release the hounds). You can't have the best of everything. On the other hand, I am convinced that Mohammad Asif fell prey to horrible mentorship from Shoaib Akhtar. The worst possible influence. It was evident with the rumours that Asif's punishment would be lesser than Shoaib's, it was evident when Akhtar ended up missing more games than Shoaib, and it's evident even now. That doesn't absolve him of gross misconduct though. He deserved to miss games. And he DID miss games. I whole-heartedly believe the PCB meted out its punishment in its own twisted way. That's a shame. Because Pakistan paid the biggest price due to the conduct of these two (WC humiliation), and most don't even accept that they paid it.

[Bongosamaj]

But I can already hear the "They did their time" excuses coming from all over the world

Warne : caught cheating, banned for a YEAR Akhtar & Asif : caught cheating, brushed under the carpet, back in the team within 3 months. See the difference yet ???

[kablooee87]

Warne : caught cheating, banned for a YEAR Akhtar & Asif : caught cheating, brushed under the carpet, back in the team within 3 months. See the difference yet ???

I didn't mention Shane Warne anywhere in my post, nor did I make a comparison with his situation.

[Bumper]

Salil he goes on and on about morality lessons yet i have never heard him say a thing about how CA handled M Waugh and Warne's case. I have never heard him say anything about how N Sidhu was allowed to play for the country(since the Indians are so strict about morality and would have hung and quartered any one who took drugs).I don't understand why is it so hard to be fair? p.s Shoaib didn't immediately come back, he came back after a 13 match ban.

MP, if you are gonna give examples, wouldnt you atleast make sure they are relevant ? Mark Waugh & Warne were accused of taking money from bookies and Sidhu was accused of murder In the above cases, did it unfairly impact their opponents's chances ? No. Did their resp gaffes, give these gentlemen, an unfair advantage in their cricket ? No. In Akhtar & Asif's case (both pace bowlers), drugs helped them get back from injuries quickly and in Akhtar's case prolly sustain his pace for a longer time period. So the qns again. Did they gain an unfair advantage taking drugs ? Yes Did they unfairly impact their opponents ? Yes The only comparison thats relevant is that of Warney's dope incident, for which he got banned & rightly so.

[Bongosamaj]

I didn't mention Shane Warne anywhere in my post' date=' nor did I make a comparison with his situation.[/quote'] No you didn't. But you implied 'double standards' from us because in your words 'Asif & Akhtar paid in their own way' and you wanted to pre-empt the 'but they served their time' argument. Well i just pointed out to you - Asif/Akhtar got 1/4th the penalty Warne got and Warne's penalty is close to what IAAF doles out for first time offenders- 1 year suspension from competetive facilities and games.

[kablooee87]

No you didn't. But you implied 'double standards' from us because in your words 'Asif & Akhtar paid in their own way' and you wanted to pre-empt the 'but they served their time' argument. Well i just pointed out to you - Asif/Akhtar got 1/4th the penalty Warne got and Warne's penalty is close to what IAAF doles out for first time offenders- 1 year suspension from competetive facilities and games.

You made the implication yourself. I wasn't implying that. I was talking about a hypothetical scenario, not one that has already happened. And since it was hypothetical, I didn't go deep into it. Asif and Akhtar DID serve time. Not ENOUGH time. But they did pay a price. The biggest price was paid by the Pakistan team in general who had to go through the world cup humiliation. My criticism stems from people neglecting to make that connection.

[Bongosamaj]

Asif and Akhtar DID serve time. Not ENOUGH time. But they did pay a price.

I call it beating the system...sort of like how mr politician gets to go off after paying only a little fine instead of 5 yrs in jail, how Paris hilton gets 2 days in jail for something someone else gets 10 months for.