VVS MUST realize his world cup dream.

[Bumper]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream. Laxman is a conservative, "old skool" stroke maker. Not fit for modern day ODI games, unless the game is played on very low scoring surfaces where 230 is the par score & 250 is the match winning score (like the Saffie ODI series).

[Mr. Wicket]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream. I've been a big fan of VVS and would love to see him play the World cup... unfortunately, there's the issue of his fielding which is a MAJOR minus. Ganguly and Zaheer are more productive in their roles in the side, and they're very average fielders. Dravid's fielding has been slumping lately, and Sehwag's never been too flash... throw Laxman in and the side will be very sluggish. This'll be particularly worrying in the Windies where with smaller grounds, runs will be at a premium and a good fielder who saves 10-15 more than a very average fielder like VVS can make a big difference. Not to forget that his strokeplay, while exquisite, is fairly one-dimensional in ODIs... he can't cope with high required run rates, and is also a poor runner between the wickets. No arguments if they leave him out - as long as it's just for the ODI side.

[Bumper]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream. Fielding wouldnt be my primary worry, more his batting. VVS is a one dimensional batsman, can only bat in the top order. He will likely have to bat mostly during the power plays. His conventional stroke making can fetch runs in the power plays only if he finds the gaps. He cannot hit over the top naturally. He will stall the momentum and put huge pressure in the middle order in the later overs. Like i said, Laxy belongs in the team only when pitches are tricky. In world cups, i expect pitches to be relatively flat & high scoring. No room for Laxman, IMO.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream. I wonder why Laxman does not play the lofted shot more frequently. I still remember the effortless 6 which he hit in the second innings of the Kolkata test in 2005 year. And this was after being injured by Sami.

[Rohan495]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream. Whenever Laxman scores over 50, its usually a very efficient innings combinations of singles, boundaries, and not really big shots. I think thats better than how some hooligans such as Raina and Kaif who dive around the field but score no runs. So in saying that theres no room for Laxman that means Karthik, Raina, Kaif, Mongia get the nod over Laxman who do not even equal to half of Laxmans batting pedigree, Lets not forget this is not frisbee throwing or throw ball, cricketers have to bat, thats more important, thats what makes more than a difference, so i take that you guys consider fielding more important factor than batting, and who ever said laxman has a safe pair of hands, he ran fine in the S Africa until the last run out, lets not make that too much of a factor when your willing to send these young hooligans who cant bat over Laxman. Laxman was always a victim of casual treatment in the indian cricket team, lets face it he has to be given a chance to play a world cup, the world wants to see him thats for sure.

[gator]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream. u r yet to explain how u think, Laxman's style of batting will be effective on slow, low wickets, with sluggish outfields...

[King]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream. Few things I want to point out about Raina, Kaif and Laxman (hate having similar opinion to Rohan but still ) : 1. Laxman was played in the last ODI against SA in South Africa. This is after the repeated failures of Raina and Kaif. Unfortunately for Laxman he had only one attempt and in fact one ball to seal his place. That simply was unfair. While the likes of Raina and Kaif got years and still failed Laxman got one game to prove his worthiness as an ODI player. 2. On decent batting pitches in India Laxman doesn't get a call up but Raina does. Why is that may I ask? 3. Ganguly's got a huge fan following now after his recent success and rightly so. Now wasn't Ganguly a bad fielder and also a bad runner? Now am sure you guys have seen he has improved on both accounts. Why is that this is not being pointed out in case of Ganguly? Laxman fielded in the slips through out the SA series and there was absolutely no chance for him to display if he has improved his fielding at all. 4. If there is so much thrust on fielding and if that is letting Laxman down then why worry about Kaif or Raina's selection. Either are good fielders but if you want the best among these two shouldn't Kaif deserve a look in as he is the best fielder India's got? 5. How many of you know how well Utappa fields? Is he preferred for batting or fielding? Also do you guys believe he is a better batsman than Laxman at international level? 6. Since 2005 Laxman has got 3 chances to prove whether he is a good enough ODI batter or not. That really is very unfair for a player of that class. Meanwhile Yuvrajs, KAifs, Rains and even Utappa got more chances than Laxman. Unless you give someone a chance to display his skills how can he prove anything? 7. As for conventional stroke making that you guys are pointing out, look no further than Rahul Dravid. Rahul Dravid is a walking MCC manual of batting but hasn?t he done well enough in this format? You rarely see Rahul going over the top but he picks up run a ball knock and usually scores as quick as Shewags or Dhonis. Good players irrespective of the format will come good in long term. In fact Laxman has a very unconventional batting style which makes it hard for the opposition to contain him. You don?t needs a slogger in the middle order and neither is Tendulkar slogging these days, he is playing conventional cricket too but is among the best. Laxman may not be able to slog but he can pick gaps better than a lot other batters in the team. I think Indian selectors are making a huge mistake by not giving VVS a deserving place in the team. If Kaif, Raina, Sehwag, Yuvraj and the rest were amassing 100s every other game I can understand but they are so inconsistent the team is rather better off than these fellas. Clearly to win an ODI you need runs on the board and only good batters can provide that option consistently.

[gator]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream. c'mon Ravi... Raina and Kaif have not many backers on this board and they do not even figure in the first 11 of the team mgmt, now tht gambo and ganguly are back.... with Yuvi and Sehwag coming back, the middle order is full..... and how can you compare one of the greatest ODI bats (Ganguly) with someone like Lax who averages 30 with the bat after 86 odis..... even Kaif was not given a consistent run and he averages more than tht, while batting much lower down the order....

[King]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream.

how can you compare one of the greatest ODI bats (Ganguly) with someone like Lax who averages 30 with the bat after 86 odis.

There was no comparison made as for their career records go, the only comparison made was about the running between the wickets and the fielding between these two gentlemen. The very reason Ganguly was dropped was because he wasn't producing runs, fielding was dismal and less said the better about running between the wickets. Now Ganguly has transformed himself after he has been inducted back and I think Laxman can do likewise.

c'mon Ravi... Raina and Kaif have not many backers on this board and they do not even figure in the first 11 of the team mgmt

I'm quite glad about that. I feel Laxman should get a look in after Gambhir, Ganguly, Rahul, Yuvraj, Tendulkar and Sehwag. These are automatic choices. The choice then is to choose one of among Raina, Kaif, Laxman, Karthik and Utappa. Of these Utappa and Karthik needs to be given few chances along with Laxman to see how they go. One of these two should be given a chance based on their performances. I think Raina and Kaif have had innumberable chances and have come a cropper. IMO it should ideally be a toss up between Laxman, Karthik and Utappa. Whom are you going to pick if you were given an option?

[Bumper]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream.

Few things I want to point out about Raina, Kaif and Laxman (hate having similar opinion to Rohan but still ) : 1. Laxman was played in the last ODI against SA in South Africa. This is after the repeated failures of Raina and Kaif. Unfortunately for Laxman he had only one attempt and in fact one ball to seal his place. That simply was unfair. While the likes of Raina and Kaif got years and still failed Laxman got one game to prove his worthiness as an ODI player. 2. On decent batting pitches in India Laxman doesn't get a call up but Raina does. Why is that may I ask?

Am not saying picking Raina is fair. He's been given enuff chances to prove his worth & he has failed. He deserves the boot. And its not like Laxman wasnt given his fair run. He enjoyed his fair run in the Ganguly era (Ganguly doesnt dump his picks that quickly) before he was dumped. This is Laxman's stats in his last 14 ODIs: [code:1:497a272fc4] Mat I NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Ave 100 50 0 14 13 1 289 79 43 37 24.08 0 1 1 [/code:1:497a272fc4] Enuff mediocrity there to deserve the boot.

3. Ganguly's got a huge fan following now after his recent success and rightly so. Now wasn't Ganguly a bad fielder and also a bad runner? Now am sure you guys have seen he has improved on both accounts. Why is that this is not being pointed out in case of Ganguly? Laxman fielded in the slips through out the SA series and there was absolutely no chance for him to display if he has improved his fielding at all.

Yes, Ganguly is a bad fielder & a bad runner between the wickets. But he is an all time great ODI bat, deserves some special considerations. Add to it that he is a part time bowler, the comparison does not even begin.

4. If there is so much thrust on fielding and if that is letting Laxman down then why worry about Kaif or Raina's selection. Either are good fielders but if you want the best among these two shouldn't Kaif deserve a look in as he is the best fielder India's got? 5. How many of you know how well Utappa fields? Is he preferred for batting or fielding? Also do you guys believe he is a better batsman than Laxman at international level?

Fielding obviously is a secondary criteria, if his batting is explosive or the match winning kind.

6. Since 2005 Laxman has got 3 chances to prove whether he is a good enough ODI batter or not. That really is very unfair for a player of that class. Meanwhile Yuvrajs, KAifs, Rains and even Utappa got more chances than Laxman. Unless you give someone a chance to display his skills how can he prove anything?

Laxman played thru out year 2004 (close to 13 games), after his spectacular VB series Down Under. Not enuff chances ?

7. As for conventional stroke making that you guys are pointing out, look no further than Rahul Dravid. Rahul Dravid is a walking MCC manual of batting but hasn?t he done well enough in this format? You rarely see Rahul going over the top but he picks up run a ball knock and usually scores as quick as Shewags or Dhonis. Good players irrespective of the format will come good in long term. In fact Laxman has a very unconventional batting style which makes it hard for the opposition to contain him. You don?t needs a slogger in the middle order and neither is Tendulkar slogging these days, he is playing conventional cricket too but is among the best. Laxman may not be able to slog but he can pick gaps better than a lot other batters in the team.

Once again, wrong comparison. Dravid has redefined his career as a ODI batsman since 2001. Check his average in the last 6 years. Plus he is never stuck at one end like Laxman, when not able to find gaps. He rotates the strike with ease. Add to it, his superb improvisation in the slog overs. His strike rate was better than Dhoni's in the last game. Laxman lacks that flexibility. Forget slogging, i dont even think Laxman will do well in power plays.

[gator]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream. in modern day ODI cricket, if a batsmen cannot score over the infield, he is useless... even chanderpaul reinvented himself... Dravid not only reinvented himself, but took ODI batting to a different level in terms of finishing.... Lax had so many years to work on his game..... but he chose to instead sit his azz and complain, without working on his game.... 86 games, whether continuous or not, is enuf to judge tht 30 ave is where he stands....

[King]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream.

Laxman played thru out year 2004 (close to 13 games), after his spectacular VB series Down Under. Not enuff chances ?

It's been over 2 years since he last got a decent run. 13 games is definitely not a long run to be honest considering the chances Yuvraj, Kaif, Sehwag and Raina have been bestowed with. I think since about 2005 Laxman may have had about 5-6 chances. BTW if you go by similar logic Sehwag cannot be automatic choice for WC too. He is too hot and cold, fails more than he clicks, neither is he a good fielder and his average in ODI isn't any great despite being an automatic choice in the ODI team for the last 5 years.

Once again, wrong comparison. Dravid has redefined his career as a ODI batsman since 2001. Check his average in the last 6 years. Plus he is never stuck at one end like Laxman, when not able to find gaps. He rotates the strike with ease. Add to it, his superb improvisation in the slog overs. His strike rate was better than Dhoni's in the last game. Laxman lacks that flexibility. Forget slogging, i dont even think Laxman will do well in power plays.

We all know Rahul developed his ODI cricket not early in his career but later in his career. He used to struggle more than what Laxman does early in his career. Moreover it is not a comparison just a pointer that even conventional players can play a good ODI knock by sticking to their strength. Laxman is a natural stroke maker and is not as pathetic as you guys would like us to believe. Laxman has played in all 86 ODIs in his 10 year international career. While the likes of Kaif, Yuvraj, Dinesh Mongia have had a fairly long run compared to him. Even Raina has played 35 ODIs in about a year's time at an average of 26 and why should he be in the team then? :shrug: IMO it should ideally be a toss up between Laxman, Karthik and Utappa based on their performances in the upcoming 7 games to decide who goes to the WC.

[Zap_Brannigan]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream.

Few things I want to point out about Raina, Kaif and Laxman (hate having similar opinion to Rohan but still ) : 1. Laxman was played in the last ODI against SA in South Africa. This is after the repeated failures of Raina and Kaif. Unfortunately for Laxman he had only one attempt and in fact one ball to seal his place. That simply was unfair. While the likes of Raina and Kaif got years and still failed Laxman got one game to prove his worthiness as an ODI player. 2. On decent batting pitches in India Laxman doesn't get a call up but Raina does. Why is that may I ask? 3. Ganguly's got a huge fan following now after his recent success and rightly so. Now wasn't Ganguly a bad fielder and also a bad runner? Now am sure you guys have seen he has improved on both accounts. Why is that this is not being pointed out in case of Ganguly? Laxman fielded in the slips through out the SA series and there was absolutely no chance for him to display if he has improved his fielding at all. 4. If there is so much thrust on fielding and if that is letting Laxman down then why worry about Kaif or Raina's selection. Either are good fielders but if you want the best among these two shouldn't Kaif deserve a look in as he is the best fielder India's got? 5. How many of you know how well Utappa fields? Is he preferred for batting or fielding? Also do you guys believe he is a better batsman than Laxman at international level? 6. Since 2005 Laxman has got 3 chances to prove whether he is a good enough ODI batter or not. That really is very unfair for a player of that class. Meanwhile Yuvrajs, KAifs, Rains and even Utappa got more chances than Laxman. Unless you give someone a chance to display his skills how can he prove anything? 7. As for conventional stroke making that you guys are pointing out, look no further than Rahul Dravid. Rahul Dravid is a walking MCC manual of batting but hasn?t he done well enough in this format? You rarely see Rahul going over the top but he picks up run a ball knock and usually scores as quick as Shewags or Dhonis. Good players irrespective of the format will come good in long term. In fact Laxman has a very unconventional batting style which makes it hard for the opposition to contain him. You don?t needs a slogger in the middle order and neither is Tendulkar slogging these days, he is playing conventional cricket too but is among the best. Laxman may not be able to slog but he can pick gaps better than a lot other batters in the team. I think Indian selectors are making a huge mistake by not giving VVS a deserving place in the team. If Kaif, Raina, Sehwag, Yuvraj and the rest were amassing 100s every other game I can understand but they are so inconsistent the team is rather better off than these fellas. Clearly to win an ODI you need runs on the board and only good batters can provide that option consistently.

1.You are forgetting the numerous chances laxman got while he was in the side in both ODIs and tests.Laxman has been playing intl cricket for 10 years and has had only 1 gd year in ODIs and around 3 in tests...So whts wrong in giving others chances too? 2.Again, you are not taking into account,laxmans stint with the ODI side pre-2003 WC 3,4,5,6. Ganguly,zaheer are as bad as stopping the ball too but laxman is a 1D batsman while gangly,for atleast 3 years of his 10 yr old career was the best ODi batsman.Bradman wd still be the 1st choice for aussie sin 1940 even if he dropped 10 catches per innings.... Its about wht the player can bring overall into the side...if he was a great batsman,his fielding wouldnt have mattered(like how noone complained abt gangulys during 98-02),but for mediocre and not so established players like laxman,kaif,raina, fielding is an additional(but not the most important) point to be considered.... Take robin singh for example...Ordinary bat but played a shitload of games cos he was also a gd fielder and could bowl 5 overs in the middle... 7.Comparing dravid with laxman now are we?U can compare the dravid of pre-98 in ODIs to todays laxman....Dravid was a horrible ODI player back then....was too 1 D..could bat only at the top,had trouble rotating strike much like wht the entire laxman ODI career has been....The result?Dravid got dropped,worked his ass off, and became the guy who is averaging 40 despite ppl thinking tht hes not tht gd in ODIs..What changed?He became innovative....Dravid did tht when was a relative newbie fighting for a spot in the 15 member squad in both the formats......Meanwhile all laxman has done is whine in the media.

[King]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream.

1.You are forgetting the numerous chances laxman got while he was in the side in both ODIs and tests.Laxman has been playing intl cricket for 10 years and has had only 1 gd year in ODIs and around 3 in tests...So whts wrong in giving others chances too?

I have absolutely no problem with that and agree with that too. I would like to know who "THE OTHERS" here are. As long as it is Gambhir, Utappa, Dinesh Karthik that are fighting for a spot alongside Laxman than that's fine. If "THE OTHERS" you are referring to are Raina, Kaif, Sehwag, Dinesh Mongia then I cannot see how are they any better than Laxman? Laxman can bring in the experience and surely can score more than those mentioned above in the middle order any day. If there is a deserving candidate in Utappa or Dinesh Karthik I have absolutely no problem. That said those two have to be given chances enough to prove they can score runs and all three should be played to see how they go IMO.

[Bumper]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream.

Laxman played thru out year 2004 (close to 13 games)' date=' after his spectacular VB series Down Under. Not enuff chances ? [/quote'] BTW if you go by similar logic Sehwag cannot be automatic choice for WC too. He is too hot and cold, fails more than he clicks, neither is he a good fielder and his average in ODI isn't any great despite being an automatic choice in the ODI team for the last 5 years.

If you go by cold stats, a case could be made to drop Tendulkar also from the ODI squad, as he averages a paltry 25 in the last 10 games. But there is something called potential. This is when the player's reputation comes into play. Sehwag like Tendu has that match winner reputation. In a big tournament like the world cup, where we dont have a guarantee for a successful replacement, sehwag is worth the gamble. If he comes off, there is only one winner in the game.

We all know Rahul developed his ODI cricket not early in his career but later in his career. He used to struggle more than what Laxman does early in his career. Moreover it is not a comparison just a pointer that even conventional players can play a good ODI knock by sticking to their strength. Laxman is a natural stroke maker and is not as pathetic as you guys would like us to believe.

I never questioned Laxman's ability in test cricket. His stroke making is one dimensional and is more suitable for test cricket. ODI cricket is all about improvisation. We may be chasing 230, when a conventional test innings may suffice. Other times, we may be chasing over 300, when hitting over the top is a must. Laxman is not known to improvise well

Laxman has played in all 86 ODIs in his 10 year international career. While the likes of Kaif, Yuvraj, Dinesh Mongia have had a fairly long run compared to him. Even Raina has played 35 ODIs in about a year's time at an average of 26 and why should he be in the team then? :shrug:

As Gator put it, 86 games is enuff no. of chances for a class player (as u say) like Laxman to prove his mettle. In this time, he has has shown us that (barring patches), he's no better than a Kaif (Avg: 30, SR: 70) as a ODI player.

[Rohan495]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream. hes better than Kaif. No questions.

[Birbal2]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream. VVS has no business playing ODIs... he should concentrate on Tests...

[Zap_Brannigan]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream.

1.You are forgetting the numerous chances laxman got while he was in the side in both ODIs and tests.Laxman has been playing intl cricket for 10 years and has had only 1 gd year in ODIs and around 3 in tests...So whts wrong in giving others chances too?

I have absolutely no problem with that and agree with that too. I would like to know who "THE OTHERS" here are. As long as it is Gambhir, Utappa, Dinesh Karthik that are fighting for a spot alongside Laxman than that's fine. If "THE OTHERS" you are referring to are Raina, Kaif, Sehwag, Dinesh Mongia then I cannot see how are they any better than Laxman? Laxman can bring in the experience and surely can score more than those mentioned above in the middle order any day. If there is a deserving candidate in Utappa or Dinesh Karthik I have absolutely no problem. That said those two have to be given chances enough to prove they can score runs and all three should be played to see how they go IMO.

The others i am talking abt are defn not the likes of sehwag and kaif, as i feel tht they shdnt have played more than 50 games....both have been mediocre for years in ODIs. I always wanted to see utappa,raina,gambhir and a few ppl yet to make intl debut get more chances..But unfortunately with only 50 days to go for the WC, we have to persist with the idiots we have been playing with for the past few years....maybe we'll have a chance next WC.

[yoda]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream. Raina has proven that he is a failure. He is not ready for international play. He looked clueless in WI.

[Rohan495]

Re: VVS MUST realize his world cup dream. i will never forgive selectors for treatin Laxman so casually, i believe just because he was dropped for the last world he should get a chance for this world cup.