Tendulkar Analysed: by Hari Sampath.

[Guest HariSampath]

[Mod Edit: This thread has been spawned from another thread]

Yes Avi. I will post more pics later. PS: Anybody who p.isses in this thread will get mangled very badly. Think before you type if you really have to type that is.

so you think you are a Sachin authority ? You wanna get mangled on Sachin quizes ?

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Guest HariSampath]

Come back after you have grown up and know how to debate ... but till then follow the advice in that post.

I think you are the one who needs to grow up, and learn how to debate. But before that you need to understand things like logic, stats, probability, etc. Most importantly before learning debating, you need to know you cannot make statements, contradict yourself, deny you made them and claim something else when corneed.....as you did with me earlier and were exposed

[Guest HariSampath]

by the way, you still haven't answered me on how you claim sachin to be the "greatest ODI batsman" when he averages between 25 and 39 in 6 test playing countries, over 18 years.....this was something you yourself had said , in the cotext of someone needing to succeed in all conditions to be considered great

[Chandan]

by the way' date=' you still haven't answered me on how you claim sachin to be the "greatest ODI batsman" when he averages between 25 and 39 in 6 test playing countries, over 18 years.....this was something you yourself had said , in the cotext of someone needing to succeed in all conditions to be considered great[/quote'] Neither could you Hari. You were not able to give even one instance when the best batsman "according to you" scored 150-160 runs chasing 300 runs, whereas that was your criteria for the best batsman that he should do it many times not just once! Even if other teams could not score 300 runs against his team's attack, how can you call him the best when he wasn't tested? But we'll talk about this in the old Viv vs Lillee thread. Please spare this thread only for celebrating the completion of 18 years in international cricket for Sachin!!

[Guest HariSampath]

Sachin Tendulkar played an absolutely brilliant innings of 97 yesterday, 99 earlier in the series and also other extremely good 90+ innings earlier this year. Surely he should play in ODIs for some more time as long as he is playing like this. This is the key, as I always say, even when he got that 70 odd against Australlia, I had said he should retire if he played in that manner. No true fan of Sachin will be happy about it if he scratches around and pokes at everything , looking a total mess. True fans will rather prefer him to retire than disgrace himself. Thats why its important to distinguish between true fans, and blind supporters of everything Sachin does and doesn't. It is those blind worshippers who make claims like "world's greatest ever batsman" for Sachin, who keep silent when very valid questions are raised about the following points. 1. Why Sachin doesn't deliver in extremely crunch situations more often ? his record here in this context has been widely accepted as ordinary. 2. Why has he mostly been criticised for not "finishing off jobs" over the years as gfreat batsmen are expected to do . Even Sunil Gavaskar had been pointing this out and it is very well known that Gavaskar is an ardent supporter of Sachin 3. Why is Sachin's record in ODIs very poor in Australia, NZ, Zimbabwe, South Africa etc ? Over an 18 year career why has he not succeeded in these countries in ODIs, despite playing more than 400 ODIs. 4. In general, Sachin's performances in ODIs outside subcontinent has been very ordinary and been pointed out by almost all top cricket analysts/players in the world. Statistically this is true as well. So how can someone with such glaring questions not answered over an 18 year career be termed "greatest ODI batsman"

[Holysmoke]

Abbe teri to HS = HolySmoke.... go get something new for yourself :finger:

[zubinpepsi]

some losers wont shut their trashhhhh

[Chandan]

No true fan of Sachin will be happy about it if he scratches around and pokes at everything ' date=' looking a total mess. True fans will rather prefer him to retire than disgrace himself.[/quote'] If you had seen that Chandigarh match (and I seriously think that you you didn't), the ball was aiding prodigious swing which Lee and Johnson were getting at 145+ speed. Add to that the uneven bounce on that pitch in the morning, and no batsman in the world would have been able to play fluently in those early overs. If you read any creditable reporters report (as in SMH), everyone agreed that he played superbly under the circumstances!

Thats why its important to distinguish between true fans, and blind supporters of everything Sachin does and doesn't.

A true fan is that who stands by his favourite player through thick and thin and has faith in his ability even when the player is going through a lean patch. Thats why he is a true fan unlike some fair-weather fans!

It is those blind worshippers who make claims like "world's greatest ever batsman" for Sachin, who keep silent when very valid questions are raised about the following points.

True fans care two hoots about who is great and who isn't. They are fans of the player because they like his game, not because what the media thinks, or what do the ignorant fans do who compare players across the eras!

1. Why Sachin doesn't deliver in extremely crunch situations more often ? his record here in this context has been widely accepted as ordinary.

Sachin has almost delivered every time even in crunch situations. And as his fan I know that!

2. Why has he mostly been criticised for not "finishing off jobs" over the years as great batsmen are expected to do . Even Sunil Gavaskar had been pointing this out and it is very well known that Gavaskar is an ardent supporter of Sachin

An opener cannot be a finisher. Opener's job is set the tone for match while both setting a target as well as chasing one. If some fools want him to do both the jobs then they can go and understand first that cricket is a game played by 11 players not just one.

3. Why is Sachin's record in ODIs very poor in Australia, NZ, Zimbabwe, South Africa etc ? Over an 18 year career why has he not succeeded in these countries in ODIs, despite playing more than 400 ODIs.

Whenever I've seen an ODI match in Australia, it is after a much exhaustive series of tests. Even then Sachin has played few very good innings there despite being not fully fit. And I'm Sachin's fan not because he has an average of such and such but because he is a great player for India IMO. I don't care about Zimbabwe. Whenever we've played in NZ, they've provided terrible pitches where scoring big knocks was impossible. And we all know how well Sachin played in 2003 WC played in SA where he was player of the tournament. So I wonder where you picked that country as his poor performance place from!!

4. In general, Sachin's performances in ODIs outside subcontinent has been very ordinary and been pointed out by almost all top cricket analysts/players in the world. Statistically this is true as well. So how can someone with such glaring questions not answered over an 18 year career be termed "greatest ODI batsman"

You may go on with the rubbish stats and things like outside sub-continent or outside Europe or in Northern hemisphere or Southern hemisphere or such. To me he has always played well. No player in the world can have a 50 in every outing, And Sachin has done as much as he could. I'm satisfied and very happy. As for regarding him as the "greatest ODI batsman" you're free to regard anyone else even if he doesn't meet the criteria set by yourself!!

[Mr. Wicket]

Sachin quizes ?:D

Throw some out, btw, regardless of the trolls. Some trivia's always fun.

[Guest HariSampath]

To give some perspective and using statistics in a very broad manner ( by no means conclusive...and no intent to deride Sachin as a fantastic batsman or to mindlessly bash Sachin, mind you)...here is a small sample of how Sachin has fared in those ODI inngs when he had been dismissed by some of the top bowlers of Sachin's era. McGrath, Lee, Pollock, Donald, Akram, Vaas, Murali,Akthar, Ntini, etc.....These are the bowlers who had dismissed Sachin more times than others.... from 4 times to 9 times each ( just ODIs ) For example Sachin's avg score in the 9 innings he had been dismissed by Pollock is 5.22, meaning Sachin got a total of 45 runs in the 9 innings that Pollock dismissed him. This can be interpreted as having scored those runs when dismissed by that particular bowler and is NOT Sachin's avg against SA, and has nothing to do with other innings when he had been dismissed by other bowlers. Moreover this doesn't mean that all those 45 runs were scored off Pollock. This is simply an average performance indicator whenever Sachin was dismissed by Pollock alone. Thats how this stat should be interpreted for all bowlers. Sachin against Bowlers Avg score BOWLER Sachin's avg Pollock : 5.22 McGrath : 23.85 Brett Lee : 20.14 Vaas : 20.88 Walsh : 8.66 Warne : 100.00 ( only 1 innings) Donald : 22.60 Murali : 46.25 Waquar : 34.25 Akram : 5.00 Daniel Fleming : 48.20 Flintoff : 53.75

[bharat297]

^ Hahaha ... what kind of rubbish stats are these? Basically that means that whenever Pollock or Akram have dismissed Tendulkar it has been when he got him out early ... wow shocker ... opening bowler gets opening batsman early. Basically these stats tell you nothing , other than opening bowlers have got Tendulkar out early sometimes and middle over bowlers have got Tendulkar out in the middle overs sometimes (which is why Warne and Murali have worse stats)

[Guest HariSampath]

It shows that of all the bowlers world over, these are considered to be some of the best and whenever Sachin has been dismissed by these bowlers, he has averaged low.... meaning...as you said if these opening bowlers had got him early and this is his average against them those times.... then we do have to think a bit about his batting, right ? And when you take it along with his career stats, in ODIs when playing in SA, NZ, Aus etc...where he had failed completely, it tells us why

[Guest HariSampath]

Abbe teri to HS = HolySmoke.... go get something new for yourself :finger:

I didn't call myself "HS"... it was a Mod who moved my posts and created a thread here without even asking me..as usual [Mod Edit: Don't know who created this thread HS, but it wasn't Boss as he's not the Mod of the "Cricket Discussions" Forum. Please refrain from pointing fingers :)]

[zubinpepsi]

It shows that of all the bowlers world over, these are considered to be some of the best and whenever Sachin has been dismissed by these bowlers, he has averaged low.... meaning...as you said if these opening bowlers had got him early and this is his average against them those times.... then we do have to think a bit about his batting, right ? And when you take it along with his career stats, in ODIs when playing in SA, NZ, Aus etc...where he had failed completely, it tells us why

dint u read this??

^ Hahaha ... what kind of rubbish stats are these? Basically that means that whenever Pollock or Akram have dismissed Tendulkar it has been when he got him out early ... wow shocker ... opening bowler gets opening batsman early. Basically these stats tell you nothing , other than opening bowlers have got Tendulkar out early sometimes and middle over bowlers have got Tendulkar out in the middle overs sometimes (which is why Warne and Murali have worse stats)

phew... enuf is enuf.... its time to use the ignore button to keep away from all these trash coming out frm the self-proclaimed Mr.Cricket..

[Chandan]

Hari, It'll be better if you show more faith in your judgement rather than some rubbish, out of context stats!! Are you so unsure of yourself? If you think Sachin is rubbish, why should it matter to you what others are saying??

[anbuchelvan]

Many people never understand that cricket is played with bat and ball not with pencil and a calculater.

[Guest HariSampath]

[Mod Edit: This thread has been spawned from another thread] so you think you are a Sachin authority ? You wanna get mangled on Sachin quizes ?:D

This thread was created by whoever is moderator of this forum, without asking me or informing me. I wish to state for the record that such "spawning" from another thread and creating a new one gives the impression that it was me who wanted to start a new thread on this topic, which was not the case. and also give it some name like "HS on SRT" is misleading as it makes it appear that I wanted to do this. This is mischeivous work by whoever is moderating anonymously without even a courtesy post or private message to me.

[Guest HariSampath]

Hari, It'll be better if you show more faith in your judgement rather than some rubbish, out of context stats!! Are you so unsure of yourself? If you think Sachin is rubbish, why should it matter to you what others are saying??

Where did I ever say Sachin was rubbish ?? I have gone on record on these same forums, saying he is one of my TOP 5 all time favorite cricketers

[varun]

I'm afraid I don't know who has created this thread Hari, but I'm sure there was a good reason for it rather than a mischievous one as you are surmising. I haven't followed the threads on this board today so I can't comment on the particular reason for why this thread was spawned but I'm guessing that the thread this has been spawned off from must have gone way off topic. Let me know what you'd like the thread to be named, and I will rename it. And calm down will ya :)