Are Indian batsmen scared of pace ? NOT!

[Bumper]

Funny, Bumps, just before you posted, I was checking out the exact same stats, but decided not to post because I knew all the hard work would be met with complete indifference, as your well researched post has. Why do you bother? Let's just PM each other next time, shall we? BTW, don't forget to check out the bowling averages of other "express bowlers"- Harmison(30+), Flintoff(40+), Malinga(40+), and Fidel Edwards(30+) against India. Would reinforce the points you made above. In the series that Bond played against us, he did average 16, but do look up the bowling averages of other bowlers in that series- Tuffy averaged 8, Oram 11, Zaheer 13. Kinda puts things in perspective, doesn't it? Steyn did pretty well in the one Test he played against us. Coming back to Shoaib, he got some wickets against us in that first Test back in '99 because of the shock value he brought with him. In this decade his series bowling average against India reads 42, 65 and 33 repectively. No doubt our batsmen are quaking in their boots. My greatest regret is that this completely undeserving noob is making money out of us. Over $300K from the BCCI for the tamasha called IPL, and now I hear around $2 million from Bollywood. No doubt he's laughing into his sleeve all the way to the bank. Does it not make you feel that the Indian cricket industry has become a whorehouse where everybody pops in when they feel like a satisfying fukc? Quite apart from that, which quicks do you think have troubled India most in recent times? You couldn't go far wrong if you selected McGrath, Pollock and Donald out of a hat. They average 18, 19, and 16 against India respectively, but Donald outdoes all of them because his record in India is frighteningly good, better than McGrath and far better than Pollock. That was the man whose blinding pace, allied with movement truly terrified India. Remember his frustration when Ntini and co couldn't find the right length against Tendulkar and Sehwag in the first innings at Blomfontein and got walloped? That fellow knew how to bowl to India, and will go down in the hall of fame in the August company of the other two, a rarefied club Shoaib can only dream of inhabiting.

Great points Dhondy. If we add all the express bowlers you mention, we have an article material here. Tell me about our media & sponsors droolin over this dopster. I guess its a price we pay for being a free market. I purposely didnt bother with McGrath, Asif, Gul, Pollock type of bowlers. I know what the results would be. And Donald (one of my fav fast bowlers), is a rare genius. I wish our MO batsmen got to play more of him (post 2003).

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Bumper]

That is not entirely correct. The head is not the only part of the body that you can feel pain (very revealing indeed :D) .... other areas that are vulnerable are arms,elbow,shoulder,chest,fingers,groin,boots and inner thigh .... and even with some form of protective equipment on a hit can cause considerable pain. So its not entirely correct to say that batsmen no longer fear a hit. Remember how Aggy had Waugh hopping around in the last series ?

I dont quite agree. Head is the most important part of the body every batsmen would like to protect. Any injury to the head, could be catastrophic. One poor Raman Lamba jumps out at me immediately, as i write this. The other day Laxy got hit on the elbow, causing him to walk out. He could have easily avoided such a blow if he wore an elbow guard. In that instance, an elbow guard would have still caused a slight pain (that you cop when you are struck by a blow), but Laxy would have gone on & played as if nothing happened. In many instances, the protective gear is the only difference between the batsman still playing vs getting packed off to the hospital.

[Rohip]

Does anyone have the stats for our batsmen against fast bowlers outside Asia? I think this is the more important stat since we're about to face a super quick attack in Australia

[Bumper]

Does anyone have the stats for our batsmen against fast bowlers outside Asia? I think this is the more important stat since we're about to face a super quick attack in Australia

Meet BossBhai, our resident statistician. He's already done this before. Our batsmen surprisingly have done BETTER outside India than in India. I dont know about the 'Asia' bit. Will have to wait, until i see his numbers

[MundaPakistani]

I said a similar thing in another thread- it has been seam bowlers like Asif and Gul who have done most of the damage in recent times.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[poori_meri]

Well to be honest I think its just wrong to single out Indian batsman. I think every cricket team will struggle against sheer pace, like high 150s, not just India. Its a question of whether they can survive through those tough periods and capitalise when the bowlers get tired and their pace drops. I remember watching this ODI in Brisbane in 2002, when Shoaib came on and took 5/25 against Australia and was bowling at exceptional pace, on the bounciest wicket in Australia. It was the first time I had seen guys like Gilchrist, Ponting, Bevan, Martyn, etc absolutely scared s***less. They had no clue what to do against Shoaib. Not to mention the success that Shane Bond has had against Australia. Harmison troubled Australia a lot in Ashes 2005. Sheer pace will always be difficult to handle for any team. Unfortunately India don't have someone who can clock the exceptional speeds that Lee and Tait can reach. If they did, I can bet that Australia would be scared.

is this the one you are talking about [ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=aPvUFixf9a4]YouTube - Shoaib Akhtar - 5-25 V Australia 3rd ODI @Brisbane june 2002[/ame]

[bharat297]

Yes that is the one ... oh ok ... its on youtube ... cool

[Bumper]

there is no elbow protector Bumps only a forearm thingy.... the way Waugh and VVS got hit it would have missed the forearm gaurd anyhow. no not really ... a finger injury will send you to the hospital ... and no glove will save you if you get hit there. BTW Lamba got killed fielding at FWD Short leg not while batting.

Lamba got killed because of lack of protective gear. It only further highlights the importance of a helmet. Protective gear IMO has provided batsmen the freedom & luxury of worrying more about their batting than other unnecessary distractions.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Bumper]

is this the one you are talking about YouTube - Shoaib Akhtar - 5-25 V Australia 3rd ODI @Brisbane june 2002

That was a full strength Pak team in action, with Inzy, Yoyo, Anwar, Akram, Waqar, Afridi, Akhtar all playing. Wonder what happened to the current lot. The current team is never able to field its full strength XI.

[Bumper]

Bumps, No ones being killed while batting .... there is usually enough time to take react (Yes there have been horrible injuries like Nari Contractor) ....but fielding at Fwd shortleg you have less than half the time a batsman gets to react .... and FWIW even with protective equipment Langer was adviced to stop fielding at Fwd shortleg and to even quit the game as he used to get hit often .... few more examples : RD at SCG circa 2004 against BLee .... I dread to think what would have happened if the ball was 2 inches below ... it would have struck him behind the ears near the neck ..... no helmet protects you there .... as it is he had a severe cut to his ear. Rashid Latif at Centurion vs Zack ... he went straight to the hospital even with a helmet on .... and didnt keep wickets in the 2nd innings of that ODI. Warne broke his finger while batting in the nets at Mumbai ... Curtley ambrose was famous for breaking batsmens fingers. Thats enough fear for the batsmen to think about.

Few examples like that dont prove or disprove anything. Tendulkar got hit on the helmet by Akhtar in 2006 (it didnt hurt him much only because of his helmet) and so was Ganguly by Akhtar few years ago as well as in the current series ? (I dont remember exactly). Protective gear does not have to protect the batsmen from all forms of injuries. Even if it eliminates 50% of the cases, its still good enuff. Its like driving a modern day vehicle equipped with diff safety gadgets and sensors. U can still get into an accident, if you are a bad driver, but it does provide most good drivers, that extra bit of security and peace of mind.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Bumper]

Unless you go in to bat with a space suit stuffed in foam there is no way you can protect every inch of the body .... as long as that is not the case batsman will always be afraid of getting hit and that is the reason why the reflex instincts take over and batsman try to fend of the ball ... else they would just let it come and hit.

Helmets are uncomfortable to wear. Inspite of that inconvenience, EVERY modern batsman wears it. If it does not provide any security to the batsman, NO ONE will bother wearing it. The very fact that helmet is as essential as a pad in a modern day batsman's gear, should tell you that it does add to the safety and comfort zone of the batsman. You cannot deny that a helmetless batsmen in the 70s, was more disadvantaged than a helmetted modern batsman. And this without even the mention of any bouncer rules.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[MundaPakistani]

That was a full strength Pak team in action' date= with Inzy, Yoyo, Anwar, Akram, Waqar, Afridi, Akhtar all playing. Wonder what happened to the current lot. The current team is never able to field its full strength XI.

It wasn't. They were missing A Razzaq and Saqlain.

[Desi Cartman]

It wasn't. They were missing A Razzaq and Saqlain.

where is Saqlain .. Someone told me that now he wants to play for England. Is it true ?

[MundaPakistani]

where is Saqlain .. Someone told me that now he wants to play for England. Is it true ?

heard his interview a few months ago and he said that he is still hoping for a PAK recall. p.s I am surprised he didn't join ICL.

[The Outsider]

heard his interview a few months ago and he said that he is still hoping for a PAK recall. p.s I am surprised he didn't join ICL.

MP, don't take this as Pakistan bashing or something but I think Saqlain was done and dusted even before his injuries. He was probably the best ODI bowler for a few years and in the top 5 in tests but once his trick of the doosra being bowled from wide of the crease got exposed he lost his potency and could not adapt.