First time u heard about politics and actually took interest

[Guest HariSampath]

Bollocks. Many high ranking US Armed Force Officers are Muslims. The notable one being the Commander to Iraq whose name beats me right now. Will look it up on web. In UK very recently Commodore Amjad Hussain was sworne in as Rear Admiral of Royal Navy. You make the person with best quality as Officer and NOT who was born a Hindu. That to me is goddamn common sense. xxx

I mean just critical positions. There will be and there are even top CBI officers who are muslims, but I am talking about vitally critical positions like ( just eg) a Major in the personal SPG group of Sonia Gandhi ( you will NOT find any Tamils in Sonia's inner security detail, NOR any sikhs ) A major in the NSG commando force of LK Advani ( you will NOT find any muslim here) A Director of operations ( RAW) working in the Siachen area ( will not be a muslim) A joint Director Intelligence ( nuclear command) WILL NOT be anyone in active anti pakistan missile watch group. The security risk issues are just too high, and NO way anyone taking top level decisions will risk these things. In case you think these are "religious bigots" of BJP etc deciding so... leet me point out that for 42 years when Nehru/Gandhi familuy was in power... these were always the operational policy for highly sensitive posts

[Lurker]

The security risk issues are just too high, and NO way anyone taking top level decisions will risk these things.

Hari, I beleive you are saying the same things over and over with little justification. I shall ask you this question one more time since it seems we are going in circle here. When you raise questions about Indian Muslim integrity to India and condemn them as Security Risk and hence not getting top positions, do you have any evidence(and it has been 60 plus years now) at all? Evidence where a Muslim group of soldiers have acted against Indian interest? Evidence where a Muslim commander went against India? Just a "Yes I have tons of evidence and I will put it now" OR "No I dont have any evidence this is just my feeling backed without any factual data". Thanks! xxxx

[Guest HariSampath]

Lurks...please answer a question : If you were on a plane transatlantic and intelligence receives input that 2 suicide bombers are on board. If authorities see 2 middle eastern arabic men on board, what would they do ?

[Guest dada_rocks]

We have evidence that these people were pakistan lovers to start with stayed back despite working for it and votign for it.. That was pre-indepndence India Come to post-independence: Overwhelmng mukhbir in army comes from one particualr religion and if an army chief finds them security risk I will take his words as opposed to psec loonies who never set foot in any army barrack.... Generals have steadfastly adhered to this policy then it's the truth . Of course in a country like India releasing actual data of these guys involevement won't be allowed.. I wish they do after all how bloody long one will keep fooling oneself.. MAy be when these guys are slapped by those findings they will try to change their ways as opposed to sulking crying how they are being ignored. then there is this exclusive ROP participation in terror-blasts , there are bloody other minoritis too we don't see them getitng involved .. PS: Do u have any data to back your claim I have noticed this backing ur words has never deterred u from staking one ridiculous claims after another.. Just any evidence I have got pre-indepdence India's factual vote results I have got post-indepdence India's terror blast suspect accused convicts list I have got post-independence India's Army general's words.. Tell me what u have got other than the mere rhetoric

[The Outsider]

Here's the deal - anymore religious bashing and this thread is getting a lock on it. You want to continue discussing the topic do so in a mature manner. Calling a religion by sarcastic references, blatant generalization against any community all fall under this category. Just because this new forum has been created does not mean that the ban on religious discussions has been lifted.

[Guest HariSampath]

It certainly cannot be said that all muslims are terrorists, that would be stupid, but the facts remain that all major terrorist attacks in India have been carried out by muslims, and hence that community has contributed more to terrorism and anti national acts than other communities. hence when drawing up profiles of possible dangerous elements, security/intelligence communities are always extra careful and cautious about muslims. This is based on facts and proven data. The question of muslims in army alone does not arise, as I had all along been writing about a across the board general policy of not appointing muslims in key positions of very high operational importance. These decisions are based on study of a variety of factors, and there are commonly accepted background details that expressly prohibit appointment for key positions. For example if someone in the commando team had been a sikh in Delhi in 1984 and been in college etc, such a person will be very carefully scrutinised before being appointed to Sonia Gandhi's personal security detail. I hope you understand the rationale

[Guest dada_rocks]

Lurker's scienitifc study says since he found one Abdul hamid that trumps everything else.. Yes anecdotal evidence rule.. (1) Pre-indepdence polling datiabses can go to dumps (2) Post-independence terror suspect/convict/accused databse can go to dumps (2) One after another army top brass's factual judgement can go to dumps (2) One after another political setup across the communal/secular tirade boundary's teadfast adherence to these rules can go to dumps Welcome to the rational debate psec style.

[Guest HariSampath]

Here's the deal - anymore religious bashing and this thread is getting a lock on it. You want to continue discussing the topic do so in a mature manner. Calling a religion by sarcastic references, blatant generalization against any community all fall under this category. Just because this new forum has been created does not mean that the ban on religious discussions has been lifted.

where is the religious bashing here.....it is a well known fact that muslims are internationally scrutinised more in certain specific and critical situations like terror alerts, security threats etc , more than other communities. This is a worldwide phenomenon, and not merely in India. post 9/11 everyone knows what this means. If you are traveling out of JFK and if your name is Ahmed Zawari, and if you are from Karachi, there is NO DOUBT your baggage will be checked twice as well, and you will be subjected to double physical check and pat downs. Is this racial prejudice ? NO. Is this profiling ? Yes. Is this correct or fair ? It is necessary, and better safe than sorry

[Lurker]

Lurks...please answer a question : If you were on a plane transatlantic and intelligence receives input that 2 suicide bombers are on board. If authorities see 2 middle eastern arabic men on board' date=' what would they do ?[/quote'] That is bollocks again. I dont want to be part of a never ending thread when the person I am debating to refuses to answer a very basic question and involves ridiculous notion like Middle Eastern citizens on a plane. Give me a straight-up answer or quit this charade of debate Hari. When you raise questions about Indian Muslim integrity to India and condemn them as Security Risk and hence not getting top positions, do you have any evidence(and it has been 60 plus years now) at all? Evidence where a Muslim group of soldiers have acted against Indian interest? Evidence where a Muslim commander went against India? Just a "Yes I have tons of evidence and I will put it now" OR "No I dont have any evidence this is just my feeling backed without any factual data". xxx

[Lurker]

We have evidence that these people were pakistan lovers to start with stayed back despite working for it and votign for it.. That was pre-indepndence India

The question is repeated to you too. In post Independence India can you cite any mutiny, any act against National Interest by a Muslim officer? A simple yes and no shall suffice. Put up or stop wasting my time DR. xxx

[The Outsider]

Hari, the comments were directed more at DR than you who seems to have made this new forum into a a vehicle to spread his age old crusade against Islam. Racial/communal profiling you can talk about as long as you are respectful to the religion.

[Lurker]

Lurker's scienitifc study says since he found one Abdul hamid that trumps everything else.. Yes anecdotal evidence rule.. (1) Pre-indepdence polling datiabses can go to dumps (2) Post-independence terror suspect/convict/accused databse can go to dumps (2) One after another army top brass's factual judgement can go to dumps (2) One after another political setup across the communal/secular tirade boundary's teadfast adherence to these rules can go to dumps Welcome to the rational debate psec style.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: signs of losing debate(and sanity) DR? MAybe both. Yes Muslim India has given us Abdul Hamid. Gujju India has given us a big fat ghanta. Now go suck on it. Pre-independence history holds little water. Indian Constitution is NOT based on pre-Independence activity. The law of the land does NOT punish a Muslim because of what Ghazni did. Of course if you fail to understand it you wont be the first right wing loony. So back to the questions: 1) Give me cold hard numbers on the participation of Gujjus in Indian Army. 2) Give me a Gujju who has won PVC ahead of say Abdul Hamid. 3) Give me a mutiny in Independent India that was caused by Muslims, a la Sikhs at Rangarh Cantt. Simple straight questions. Stop cr@pping this thread with nonsensical answers. xxx

[Lurker]

where is the religious bashing here

There is of course religious bashing here. You want to debate on Indian Muslims, stick to Indian Muslims. Any reference to Religion of Peace or some cr@p that happens outside of Indian borders is irrelevant to this thread and an attack on Muslims in general...none of which falls within context. xxx

[Guest dada_rocks]

They haven't jopined army fortunately for India so mutiny issue goes out of the window.. They have abated and even whole-heartedly participated in what they could and who's who list of terror reinforces this point Whole Kashmir valley is living example of everything one wants to know .. Now you try answering my question do you have anything to disprove those points raised..

[Guest dada_rocks]

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: signs of losing debate(and sanity) DR? MAybe both. Yes Muslim India has given us Abdul Hamid. Gujju India has given us a big fat ghanta. Now go suck on it. Pre-independence history holds little water. Indian Constitution is NOT based on pre-Independence activity. The law of the land does NOT punish a Muslim because of what Ghazni did. Of course if you fail to understand it you wont be the first right wing loony. So back to the questions: 1) Give me cold hard numbers on the participation of Gujjus in Indian Army. 2) Give me a Gujju who has won PVC ahead of say Abdul Hamid. 3) Give me a mutiny in Independent India that was caused by Muslims, a la Sikhs at Rangarh Cantt. Simple straight questions. Stop cr@pping this thread with nonsensical answers. xxx

Phir wahin BS go back read my posts.. repeating same BS doesn't put new dimension to the question.. Gujju India is feeding you and I most probabaly including those traitors.. ONe Vikram sarabhai One pAtel One Gandhi is good enough for me u can put whole world's Abdul hamid together it will still not be good enough.. PS: u keep harping no crappin yet not even in asingle foolowup post u answer anythign under than Abdul hamid crap.. :D

[Lurker]

They haven't jopined army fortunately for India

Because YOU dont want them to join Army. Please correct me if I am wrong that right wing loony do NOT want Muslims to join Armed Forces.

so mutiny issue goes out of the window..

Okay so if that is as close to what I am going to get from a right wiger I shall take it. So one of the biggest critics of Muslims on this board accepts NO mutiny in India has happened because of Muslims. Good.

They have abated and even whole-heartedly participated in what they could and who's who list of terror reinforces this point

Bollocks. It is downright stupid to chastise Muslims due to what is done by some anti-social elements in its society. Stop wasting time with KAshmir and other irrelevant topic. Answer this - Why should a Israr Khan not become the Head of Army in India?

Now you try answering my question do you have anything to disprove those points raised..

No you have not answered my questions. Two remain: 1) Give me a Gujju who won PVC. 2) What is the percentage of Gujjus in Indian Army and what the eff happened to biggest bunch of big talkers? xxxx

[Guest dada_rocks]

Hari, the comments were directed more at DR than you who seems to have made this new forum into a a vehicle to spread his age old crusade against Islam. Racial/communal profiling you can talk about as long as you are respectful to the religion.

Poitn me out specifically I don't appreciate DR this and DR that commentary lest u want to use ur prejudice and are interested in mud-slinging.. I can do that too..

[Guest dada_rocks]

Because YOU dont want them to join Army. Please correct me if I am wrong that right wing loony do NOT want Muslims to join Armed Forces. Okay so if that is as close to what I am going to get from a right wiger I shall take it. So one of the biggest critics of Muslims on this board accepts NO mutiny in India has happened because of Muslims. Good. Bollocks. It is downright stupid to chastise Muslims due to what is done by some anti-social elements in its society. Stop wasting time with KAshmir and other irrelevant topic. Answer this - Why should a Israr Khan not become the Head of Army in India? No you have not answered my questions. Two remain: 1) Give me a Gujju who won PVC. 2) What is the percentage of Gujjus in Indian Army and what the eff happened to biggest bunch of big talkers? xxxx

Questionof my want comes when they show up for joining , fortunately for me they don't.. Yes I have no qualms in saying I don't trust them in army once bitten twice shy.. All that matters top me is whole muslim wing of the army migrated to pakistan .. you can keep harping unrelated points and issues which are irrelevant.. Again try answering what have they done to convince me if inducted in army they will not join another separate country demand.. If anything by working as ISI moles all over India they have further strengthened my fears. By blowing people up in name of jihad they have further strengthened my fears Even their modus-operandi remains the same asking for special attention unfortunately congresis even indulge them there...I know ur history is weak btu that's how it all started special status in name of this or that..

[The Outsider]

Poitn me out specifically I don't appreciate DR this and DR that commentary lest u want to use ur prejudice and are interested in mud-slinging.. I can do that too..

Did you or did you not make sarcastic remarks against Islam in this very thread? Aren't you guilty of generalization against Muslims in this very thread? Both the above are against board policies, so no matter how hard it might be for you try to adhere to these guidelines.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Stupdiity of PVC and Abdul HAmdi issue is evident from the following facts Total number of PVC winners are less than 20 and we have 26 states and then uninon territory regions .. Going by your rhetoric that makes at least 15 of states uselesssince more than oen come from punjab.. U are still stuck in high-school style debate... absence or presence of one PVC holders means noithign.. here holistic picture is being talked.. get over it , i not only not answers any questions also shows how low standard debate u are running.. If u must indulge in this nonesense then remember Sarabhai he is worth million Hamid