Hope those who are against reservation will see the BJP's point

[Guest dada_rocks]

and not get their blind hatred come in the way of sound judgement.. http://dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=EDITS&file_name=edit1%2Etxt&counter_img=1 The Chief Ministers of BJP-ruled States have done well to oppose the sinister proposal of allocating 15 per cent of funds during the 11th Plan period for 'minority welfare'. Decoded into politically incorrect parlance, this means squandering public funds on crass minorityism and facilitating the Congress's obnoxious vote-bank politics at the expense of tax-payers. The draft 11th Plan has ostensibly proposed this 'communal budgeting' to help implement the Prime Minister's 15-point minority welfare programme that is based on Mr Manmohan Singh's "Muslims first" policy. What is being sought is money to promote Urdu, fund madarsas and prevent communal riots, among other such equally inane things. It would be asinine to suggest that India's Muslims can be empowered by promoting Urdu or funding madarsas. They need modern education and skills that will qualify them for jobs; neither Urdu nor madarsa curriculum will provide them with either. As for preventing communal riots, this is a law and order issue which is best left to the State Governments. Any attempt by the Centre, more so a Government headed by the Congress, to intrude into the State's domain under the guise of 'preventing communal riots' can only be guided by partisan political motives. That the UPA Government should come up with such outrageous proposals is by itself indicative of its mindset and exposes the real face of its politics of appeasement to the nation's detriment.

[Lurker]

What is being sought is money to promote Urdu, fund madarsas and prevent communal riots, among other such equally inane things. It would be asinine to suggest that India's Muslims can be empowered by promoting Urdu or funding madarsas.

While I am personally against reservation I find the piece up above quite intriguing. How is poviding money to prevent communal riot an inane thing?? Surely avoiding communal riots should rank very high in any Government. Secondly promoting Urdu. Whats wrong with it? It is a glorious language that is quite simply dying. Gulzar and Javed Akhtar are the two known exponents in movie industry and it doesnt exactly take a rocket scientist to figure out how apart from these two gents, and Prasoon Joshi, everyone else is dishing out cr@p. Hindi cinema owes more to Urdu than to Hindi and Urdu literature, specially ghazals and shers are as stellar as any other form of Indian literature. Even those that dislike the influence of Islam love Urdu. So whats the harm in promoting it? As for madarsa that I can agree to. I suppose most Muslims will agree as well. Frankly I cant remember anyone sending their kids to madarsa where I grew up. xxx

[Guest dada_rocks]

What is being done under that heading of preventing communal riot is the main thing. In nutsheel proposal is to bribe them so they don't go bonkers.. this is wrong on two counts.. First the very assumption that riots happen because people don;t have enough to eat.. ( cae in point Gujarat has been most riot prone state and people are fincially much better off there than in the rest of the india, including muslim population).. Then this bribing to keep that in check.. Why not take iton directly.> manmohan seemed quite vocal without those pussilanimoud addendum while speaking on naxalism why hie adopts these tactiucs when it coems to taking on Jihadists.. I guess vote-bank politics in name of religion sounds like communal politics from a self-professed secual party to me

[Lurker]

^^ It doesnt make sense. You mentioned Gujrat. In that case(giving money to riot areas) would only mean Gujrat gets more money and not say Bihar or UP. So what is Modi cribbing about? I do understand that "buying" people is not the correct thing and I agree to it too. But I am not sure of why putting money in a riot area is the same as bribing? Are we talking of investing or are we talking of merely passing money? If we talk of investing then its good I suppose. I mean who doesnt want more money invested in Mumbai after 1992 riots? Quite simply Mumbai has been downhill ever since then. xxx

[Guest dada_rocks]

^^ It doesnt make sense. You mentioned Gujrat. In that case(giving money to riot areas) would only mean Gujrat gets more money and not say Bihar or UP. So what is Modi cribbing about? I do understand that "buying" people is not the correct thing and I agree to it too. But I am not sure of why putting money in a riot area is the same as bribing? Are we talking of investing or are we talking of merely passing money? If we talk of investing then its good I suppose. I mean who doesnt want more money invested in Mumbai after 1992 riots? Quite simply Mumbai has been downhill ever since then. xxx

Read the details .. When two community riots and then u go ahead pay one of them not to riot what kind of riot control is this.. tomorrow other one will go ballistic then what.. keep paying hafta .. Investment is for everybody not for one partcualry community whihc is the case here.. manmohan seeing election is adopting his "Muslims have first claim to our reseources" policy... And these morons have audacity to call others communal.. This is not investment this is payoout.. Same freaking thing even nitish kumar has started, Rs10000 for every muslim who passes matric exam..Hindus ne kya gunaah kiya hai.... pathetic to say the least:confused_smile:

[Lurker]

Read the details .. When two community riots and then u go ahead pay one of them not to riot what kind of riot control is this.. tomorrow other one will go ballistic then what.. keep paying hafta ..

Where's the detail? I could not find it in the original article. Can you show me?

Investment is for everybody not for one partcualry community whihc is the case here.. manmohan seeing election is adopting his "Muslims have first claim to our reseources" policy... And these morons have audacity to call others communal..

I think you are looking at this incorrectly. The issue may have found sync with right wing because of word "Muslim" but the fact remains that this has been ongoing forever. Dont the backward group - SC/STs get special benefit? In my college days I remember distinctly SC/ST students allowed 20 books from library at one time while the general category peeps like me struggled with 3. Even those 3 books were generally out and we had to wait forver. No such problem for SC/ST peeps who had what was called a seperate "Book Bank"..perhaps vote bank would be better option. I also remember how their entire year's fees was about 50 bucks or something. General category people also availed subsidized education but still paid about 5-6000 per semester if I remember correctly. I am basically all such reservations done on caste, religion, sect whatever but you are mistaken if you think its just for Muslims. By the by I am surprised why the author took a shot at Urdu. Any support of Indian language, from Telugu to Bengali, should only be encouraged. Our languages are dieing infront of English anyway. xxx

[Guest dada_rocks]

Backward group SC/ST getting affrimative action was in the original constituion poeple realized that they have been undr social persecution and hence need crutch. Now find me at what stage muslim population was discriinated, if preferential treatment by muslims masters for thousand years is persecution or again from even-handed to papmpering treatment in name of divide and rule from british doesn't qualify as persecution. If anything we are trying to award incompetence and sulking behaviour of this section. Unlike SC/St noone drove them out of schools ever, they chose not to go one fine day since some maulavi saheb said so. I see suddenly seeing muslim world you have become a believer in affrimative action .. Same person who cries wolf about why there should be reserved category seats sees nothign wrong here.. Tarun Vijay puts everything very eloquently http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Opinion/Columnists/Tarun_Vijay/The_Right_View/Obnoxious_pandering/articleshow/msid-2639416,curpg-1.cms The other point that should be pondered upon by Muslims is about the criterion that makes them demand minority status. In fact, more than ninety per cent of them are originally converted from Hinduism, same race, same blood, same ancestors, same attire, same language, land and culture. Merely a change in the way of worship can’t be the sole criteria of minority status. The only minorities in India are Jews and Parsis. They never demanded a special status, never asked for reservation yet produced the best of stalwarts in various fields. Tata, Godrej, Field Marshall Manekshaw and Gen. Jacob are just a few examples. When Parsis were offered reservation during the making of our Constitution, they politely refused and said India has offered them shelter when they were prosecuted in their own homeland by Muslims, and they promised to live here like sugar in a pot of milk. That's enough, sir, they said. And they proved their words too. It’s time we should unburden the nation from this minority-majority syndrome. Let the Indian identity over ride all other identities. Every Indian, belonging to any faith, belongs to a proud and confident Indian majority. Is that not enough?

[Lurker]

Backward group SC/ST getting affrimative action was in the original constituion poeple realized that they have been undr social persecution and hence need crutch. Now find me at what stage muslim population was discriinated, if preferential treatment by muslims masters for thousand years is persecution or again from even-handed to papmpering treatment in name of divide and rule from british doesn't qualify as persecution.

That is a very stupid statement to make and the ONLY reason why you are making such statements is to defend BJP. At the end of the day Reservation is cr@p. Say with me. No society, and I mean NO SOCIETY, shall grow if given the crutch of reservation. That Jews, Jains or Parsis dont want reservation means we should give full marks to them, as also all those backward/sc/st people who refuse to use such crutches. However if we keep having reservations on SC/ST/OBC we will keep running into such issues where reservation is demanded. We have started to see reservation based on sex(for females). We have started to see reservation for poor section of upper caste. Why this stupidity? Treat every citizen of India, Hindu/Muslim whatever as the equal and dump this reservation into trash. The only reason why you are supporting the statements up above is because BJP is agitating against Muslim. My question to you is - Why isn't BJP agitating against reservation period??? xxx

[Guest dada_rocks]

That's one view poitn twhich says reservation is crap.. and then there is another oen which sees it's required and I am leaning towards it those sc/ST most certainly needed that cruth not anymore though.. Point is on whaT BASISI MUSLIMS QUALIFY FOR THESSE WHATEVR WAY U LOOk at it they don't so why don't u say congress is crapping here once again and doing communal politics..

[Lurker]

Point is on whaT BASISI MUSLIMS QUALIFY FOR THESSE WHATEVR WAY U LOOk at it they don't so why don't u say congress is crapping here once again and doing communal politics..

Faltoo baat mat karo. :finger::finger: Say Gaya is a Reserved Constituency. Which means even though I am born and raised there I can NOT contest an election. Why? Because I am not born a SC/ST. Now BJP has no issues with this. Why? Because if they raise their voice they shall lose votes and be called anti-dalit. Now as soon as Gaya become a Reserved constituency for "Muslims" BJP is up in arms!! Calls it a mockery of Indian Constitution system. Yada Yada. Why the eff would I care? Either way I am not getting to contest the election anyway! Crux of te matter is the hypocracy of BJP. And yes Congress(or any other party) too. At the end of the day I am saying Reservation is wrong and so is any party that supports it. You on the other hand are happy with BJP stand because it goes about "Muslim" interest. Like BJP you have no moral compass on this one. Say with me, Reservation of any form is bad. Stop making excuses. xxxx

[Guest dada_rocks]

Again u missed the point (1) One lschool of thought considers reservation is wrong period.. That disqualifies everybody including muslim from preferential treatment (2) Our forefathers thought no we have persecuted one section of society to oblivion and if we expect them to be able to compete they need some crutch. There comes SC/ST reservation.. Noone in his/her right midn can say muslim has been persecutaed in fact opposite has happened So irrespective of the fact whether one buys into line (1) or line (2) there is no place for muslim or any other religion based affirmative action.. Question is someone like you who is otherwise frothing at this concept why is suddenly smpathetic towards this......Is it psec compulsion at work which goes on defensive the moment it sees the word muslim. BJP has opposed any religion based reservation and openign new vistas to the already screwed up reservation polity. Bloody in 1906 congress opposed whole-heartedly concept of separate electorate based on religion saying it fans communalism here we are awarding communal awards under banner of secular democracy. Bttomline remains whether u are in section (1) or section (2) this communal budget tries to imagine some problme and then redress it.. Nobody ever persecuted any religious group in India it has always welcomed them all. Particuarlry muslims , heck they came as master and remained master for thousands of years where does the question of their persecution thereby govt doles arise.............. PS: I buy into SC/ST reservation have seen first-hand how my own caste members treat some ST student if he/she starts attending school.. "Sab padhiye lega ta gaay bhains kaun charawega" kind of words used to be so common. As much as I hate laloo's incompetency full makrs to him for changing the equation on that front no freaking body today can dare to mouth those words and get away with it. Their claim of persecution was right and they deserved some hand-holding not anymore though. I would love those reserved seats concept to be dropped now may not be from some tribal region but certainly from places like Gaya.

[Lurker]

Question is someone like you who is otherwise frothing at this concept why is suddenly smpathetic towards this......Is it psec compulsion at work which goes on defensive the moment it sees the word muslim.

Sympathetic towards what? Stop generating paranoia and all those (g)utterance of PSec. I am saying put an end to Reservation period! You are the one arguing one line thinks this, one line thinks that. Stop bollocking, answer these question straight up 1) Do you support Reservations? Yes or No. 2) Do you think BJP supports Reservation? Yes or No. Keep it simple and not hysteria, as always. xxx

[Guest dada_rocks]

It's congress who has brought that isn;t it, so why is BJP in the dock.. If I remember correctly they too ruled never heard them adding any new vistas to the reservation.. Question is whether congress is playing communal politics here or not ? Question is whether muslims deserve communal doles or not on persecution bogey? PS: Yes I believe SC.St reservation was needed but not anymore. I have given my reaosn for that.

[The Outsider]

From a previous post of mine :

Since 1995, 16 constitutional amendments have been made, 14 of them by the NDA govt. Out of the 14, half were directly or indirectly pertaining to reservation, SC/ST. Here they are : 1. 79th amendment : To extend special privilege to SC/ST for another 10 years. http://indiacode.nic.in/coiweb/amend/amend79.htm 2. 81st amendment : Pertaining to backlog vacancies in reservations. http://indiacode.nic.in/coiweb/amend/amend81.htm 3. 82nd amendment : Relaxation of marks for SC/STs http://indiacode.nic.in/coiweb/amend/amend82.htm 4. 84th amendment : Readjustment of SC/ST seats in parliament/assemblies : http://indiacode.nic.in/coiweb/amend/amend84.htm 5. 85th amendment : Promotion to "any class" changed to promotion to "any class of seniority" : http://indiacode.nic.in/coiweb/amend/amend85.htm 6. 89th amendment : Establishment and renaming of SC/ST commissions : http://indiacode.nic.in/coiweb/amend/amend89.htm 7. 90th amendment : Representation of SC/STs in Bodoland : http://indiacode.nic.in/coiweb/amend/amend90.htm

Sure, BJP has not introduced any reservations.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Go back and check the replies too , I know u have this habit of giving uncofortable facts a miss.. BJP==== Casteless politics. not a doubt in any sane person's mind

[The Outsider]

Your replies were your usual nonsense.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Dim-wits find my words hard to get and u are chief dim-wit here.. ..

[The Outsider]

:hysterical::hysterical: Down to personal abuse now!!

[Lurker]

It's congress who has brought that isn;t it' date= so why is BJP in the dock.. If I remember correctly they too ruled never heard them adding any new vistas to the reservation..

BJP is in the dock because BJP's sense of "injustice to rest of Indians" comes out ONLY when there is a Muslim angle in the whole story. Why doesnt BJP argue against Reservations of every kind? Why only against Reservations against Religion?? So it is okay for a SC/ST to get reservation in India. Why? Because he is a Hindu. Why is it not okay for a Muslim to ask for reservation then? So long as there is any Reservation of sorts there would be issues like this coming up.

PS: Yes I believe SC.St reservation was needed but not anymore. I have given my reaosn for that.

Alright so now tell me what has BJP done in last 10-20 years to make sure SC/ST reservation is not carried forward? Even if I assume for a second that reservations were needed initially it has been over 60 years now. How long will this continue? And what has BJP done to suggest it is against reservations of any sorts? xxx

[The Outsider]

Alright so now tell me what has BJP done in last 10-20 years to make sure SC/ST reservation is not carried forward? Even if I assume for a second that reservations were needed initially it has been over 60 years now. How long will this continue? And what has BJP done to suggest it is against reservations of any sorts?

Your answer is in Post #14. They have introduced 7 constitutional amendments extending previous or introducing new reservations.