Dhoni is a poor test match player!

[Sachinism]

1. It is not hypothetical in the sense that he doesn't have the technique to play that innings. 2. Rank him, don't come out with straw men like best going around etc.

Technique... Tut tut tut

[The Outsider]

I am sure Dhoni wouldn't have been able to play innings like those just because you say so. Here are a couple of comparisons... Mongia's Kotla innings - Dhoni's 148 against Pak Mongia's Chennai innings - Dhoni's 76* at Lords' batting with the tail and saving the Test by just 1 wkt And along with those Dhoni does have a few more 50 and 100+ scores which Mongia didn't.

Those comparisons are a joke and even you know it - you are just arguing for the sake of it. Comparing 152 made on a minefield where 2 other batsmen crossed 50 in the entire match to a FTB wet dream pitch is the height of intellectual dishonesty.

[Guest Gunner]

And when you say things like A was "million" times better than B the more I question your judgement.

This is not a serious discussion anymore if you think Sidebottom & co are a better attack than the Wasim led Paki attack in that series.

[Guest Gunner]

I am sure Dhoni wouldn't have been able to play innings like those just because you say so. Here are a couple of comparisons... Mongia's Kotla innings - Dhoni's 148 against Pak Mongia's Chennai innings - Dhoni's 76* at Lords' batting with the tail and saving the Test by just 1 wkt And along with those Dhoni does have a few more 50 and 100+ scores which Mongia didn't.

What??? Do you know what the scorecard of that match looks like??

[The Outsider]

This is not a serious discussion anymore if you think Sidebottom & co are a better attack than the Wasim led Paki attack in that series.

Not only that he thinks Faisalabad '05 was a tougher pitch to bat on than Kotla '96. :hysterical:

[Ultimate_Game]

Those comparisons are a joke and even you know it - you are just arguing for the sake of it. Comparing 152 made on a minefield where 2 other batsmen crossed 50 in the entire match to a FTB wet dream pitch is the height of intellectual dishonesty.

So everytime Mongia scores it's a "minefield" and when Dhoni contributes the pitch is flat and India are in a rosy situation. As I pointed out Dhoni's 76* at Lords' came in challenging situation. The ball was swinging, it was overcast with rain in the air. He somehow survived and shepherded the tail to get us a draw which helped us win the series. The second knock of 148* came against Pakistan when our top order had gotten out and it looked like we may well end up losing the match. Dhoni took on Shoaib and Paki bowling to ensure we didn't lose the match. It's one thing to have a preference for one player but to totally discredit other players will also fall under the category of "intellectual dishonesty" in my book. And these are just the batting side of things. We haven't even gone into the captaincy and leadership part which other wks are not even eligible for being compared to Dhoni.

[Ultimate_Game]

This is not a serious discussion anymore if you think Sidebottom & co are a better attack than the Wasim led Paki attack in that series.

Well if you totally ignore the context and actual results and dwell on hypothetical scenarios what can be said. How can you say Dhoni would not have been able to score against Akram when Dhoni hasn't even played against him?

[Ultimate_Game]

Not only that he thinks Faisalabad '05 was a tougher pitch to bat on than Kotla '96. :hysterical:

I am sure context and results don't factor in your hypothetical scenarios at all :hysterical:

[The Outsider]

I learned two things tonight thanks to Ultimate_Game : 1. Faisalabad '05 was a tougher pitch to bat on than Kotla '96. 2. Anderson, Tremlett, and Sidebottom are greater bowlers than Akram, Waqar, and Saqlain. These two things highlight the kind of delusion the average Indian fan is living under and bring forth the clientele of those billboards. Good night and thanks for giving me some insight on the IQ levels of the target audience of those billboards.

[Serani]

Wasnt Faisalabad the test with the world record number of sixes? No wonder Dhoni felt right at home.

[Guest Gunner]

Well if you totally ignore the context and actual results and dwell on hypothetical scenarios what can be said. How can you say Dhoni would not have been able to score against Akram when Dhoni hasn't even played against him?

I am not saying that the innings at Lord's was irrelevant, am I? In the context of that series it is a huge thing however that said the English bowling attack at Lord's couldn't have held a candle to what Wasim and his boys did. Saqlain was just deadly in that series, just look at the number of wickets he got against some real artistic spin players.

[Ultimate_Game]

I am not saying that the innings at Lord's was irrelevant' date=' am I? In the context of that series it is a huge thing however that said the English bowling attack at Lord's couldn't have held a candle to what Wasim and his boys did. Saqlain was just deadly in that series, just look at the number of wickets he got against some real artistic spin players.[/quote'] I never argues that English seamers are better than Akram. I simply made two points... 1. We can't make a blanked statement that Dhoni would never have been able to play such an innings when Dhoni hasn't even got an opportunity to play against Akram. You can't pass a guilty verdict without any evidence. After all initially we thought Dhoni is a slogger would be found out but so far he has managed to survive. 2. Facing English seamers on an overcast, rainy day when the ball was swinging around and saving the Test batting with the tail is a pretty tough and demanding task as well and there's no way you can compare the two situations - Chennai or Lords' and see which one was more difficult. Plus do keep in mind that Dhoni managed to save the Test and the series whereas Mongia was not able to.

[Ultimate_Game]

I learned two things tonight thanks to Ultimate_Game : 1. Faisalabad '05 was a tougher pitch to bat on than Kotla '96. 2. Anderson, Tremlett, and Sidebottom are greater bowlers than Akram, Waqar, and Saqlain. These two things highlight the kind of delusion the average Indian fan is living under and bring forth the clientele of those billboards. Good night and thanks for giving me some insight on the IQ levels of the target audience of those billboards.

And here's what I've learnt from Outsider's infinite wisdom... 1. Any innings of note played by Dhoni came on featherbeds and in perfect batting conditions no matter Dhoni had to save the Test batting with the tail. 2. Match context and results don't mean anything, i.e. facing English seamers on an overcast, rainy day is the same as batiing on a shirtfront in sub-continent. 3. Outsider has "cricketing eye" which none of us mere mortals are blessed with. 4. Stats don't mean anything, i.e. an average of 38+ as a wk and leading from the front and not losing any series in the last 3 years means nothing coz we can't discern stats from hypothetical scenarios which Outsider can given his "cricketing eye" :hysterical: And yeah, whoever disagrees with Outsider has a lower IQ level :haha: I am sure this settles the debate :cantstop:

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Ultimate_Game]

I cant believe Mongia of all people is being compared to MSD ... it wont be too long before Tendulkar is hailed as a FTB because he never made a 150+ score against McGrath like Mongia did ... that too on a difficult pitch :hysterical: FFS .... these things happen once in a while it means absolutely nothing. The freakin baap of cowlashers made 141 on that same Chennai pitch against Kumble and Srinath on the previous day !! . It means absolutely nothing. These things happen in cricket. 99 times out of 100 I would back Srinath and Kumble to nail Afridi for under 30 runs on *ANY* pitch.

And I'm being labelled the one with lower IQ for disagreeing with such an asinine comparison :cantstop:

[Yoda-esque]

I cant believe Mongia of all people is being compared to MSD ... it wont be too long before Tendulkar is hailed as a FTB because he never made a 150+ score against McGrath like Mongia did ... that too on a difficult pitch :hysterical: FFS .... these things happen once in a while it means absolutely nothing. The freakin baap of cowlashers made 141 on that same Chennai pitch against Kumble and Srinath on the previous day !! . It means absolutely nothing. These things happen in cricket. 99 times out of 100 I would back Srinath and Kumble to nail Afridi for under 30 runs on *ANY* pitch.

Well said.As I mentioned earlier,the whole premise of this "Dhoni is a crap batsman" is based on that one flukey innings by Mongia!:facepalm::facepalm:

[Sid]

Nice to see people here comparing Nayan Mongia with Dhoni and actually trying to prove he was better than Dhoni :nice:

[The Outsider]

Nice to see people here comparing Nayan Mongia with Dhoni and actually trying to prove he was better than Dhoni :nice:

He was a better keeper than Dhoni. Most people would readily acknowledge the fact.

[The Outsider]

I cant believe Mongia of all people is being compared to MSD ... it wont be too long before Tendulkar is hailed as a FTB because he never made a 150+ score against McGrath like Mongia did ... that too on a difficult pitch :hysterical: FFS .... these things happen once in a while it means absolutely nothing. The freakin baap of cowlashers made 141 on that same Chennai pitch against Kumble and Srinath on the previous day !! . It means absolutely nothing. These things happen in cricket. 99 times out of 100 I would back Srinath and Kumble to nail Afridi for under 30 runs on *ANY* pitch.

Finally a sensible argument - even I've said Dhoni is a better batsman than Mongia. However, that does not take away from the fact that Mongia has played at least two innings at Kotla and Chennai which Dhoni has not been able to replicate despite his supposed vast superiority. At least you are not trying to tell me that Faisalabad was a bigger minefield than Kotla or Anderson, Tremlett, and Sidebottom are better than Akram, Waqar, and Saqlain though you did try to peddle that Steyn is greater than all 3 combined briefly.

[The Outsider]

I cant believe Mongia of all people is being compared to MSD ... it wont be too long before Tendulkar is hailed as a FTB because he never made a 150+ score against McGrath like Mongia did ... that too on a difficult pitch :hysterical: FFS .... these things happen once in a while it means absolutely nothing. The freakin baap of cowlashers made 141 on that same Chennai pitch against Kumble and Srinath on the previous day !! . It means absolutely nothing. These things happen in cricket. 99 times out of 100 I would back Srinath and Kumble to nail Afridi for under 30 runs on *ANY* pitch.

Finally a sensible argument - even I've said Dhoni is a better batsman than Mongia. However, that does not take away from the fact that Mongia has played at least two innings at Kotla and Chennai which Dhoni has not been able to replicate despite his supposed vast superiority. At least you are not trying to tell me that Faisalabad was a bigger minefield than Kotla or Anderson, Tremlett, and Sidebottom are better than Akram, Waqar, and Saqlain though you did try to peddle that Steyn is greater than all 3 combined briefly.