All time New Zealand XI

[The Outsider]

Following on from Lurker's suggestion in the Kapil Dev thread. Before I make my attempt I must say my historical knowledge of NZ cricket is poor so my choice is going to be lob sided towards the recent era. More knowledgable posters can obviously fill in: 1. John Wright : Solid opening batsman. Good straight bat technique. Never afraid of a battle on the field. 2. Glen Turner : Perhaps, New Zealand's best cricketer till the arrival of Hadlee. Remember reading about a highly successful WI tour he had. 3. Stephen Fleming : Pleasing to the eye. Immensely talented batsman whose number probably took a bit of a beating because of being given captaincy at such a young age. 4. Martin Crowe : Undoubtedly the best batsman NZ has produced. 5. Andrew Jones : Along with Martin, gave the middle order a solid look. 6. Chris Cairns: Aggressive batsman. Quality swing bowler. 7. Richard Hadlee : What a player!! 8. Ian Smith : Superb keeper and an aggressive unorthodox batsman. 9. Daniel Vettori : Already has made a name for himself and has many years ahead of him. 10. Richard Collinge: Have heard was a superb left arm swing bowler. Would add the left arm variety to the attack. 11. Shane Bond : Might not have played many tests yet, but his ability is there for all to see.

[The Outsider]

Re: All time New Zealand XI Would be a tough choice for captain between Fleming and Crowe. I would choose Crowe.

[Holysmoke]

Re: All time New Zealand XI never heard of Andrew Jones.. what about Nathan Astle?

[apocalypse]

Re: All time New Zealand XI Mark Greatbatch should be there too he was one of the first one-day pinch hitters

[King]

Re: All time New Zealand XI I rate Astle over Andrew Jones. Andrew Jones was gutsy, very unorthodox but a very good player. Astle unfortunately has numbers in his kitty and would figure in the test XI for me. Also would find a place for Chats (Chatfield) in the XI if this is a test match XI. It is said that Hadlee got so many wickets thanks to the Glen McGrath style bowling from the other end by Chatfield. Otherwise the list is just pefect. :hmph:

[The Outsider]

Re: All time New Zealand XI Astle over Jones is a fair enough call, though he was a much more effective ODI player. However, Jones has an average close to 45 while Astle ended around 35 IIRC, though over twice as many tests. I was thinking of Chatfield too, Ravi but couldn't think of any bowler to drop except Collinge who offers the left arm variety. apo, this is for tests. In ODIs Greatbatch stands a good chance.

[Sooda]

Re: All time New Zealand XI Bert Sutcliffe!!! http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/newzealand/content/player/38413.html One of the great New Zealnd batsman- opener. Should be there with Turner at the top. Sutcliffe Turner Mark Richardson (Better bat than Fleming and Crowe was a fine capt) Crowe Jones C Cairns I Smith R Hadlee D Vettori S Bond Collinge/Morrison

[Sooda]

Re: All time New Zealand XI An ODI team Fleming Turner Crowe The left hand batsman who was English really but defected- good ODI player dont remember his name. Played for Worcestershire. Astle Chris Harris Parore Cairns Hadlee Bond Vettori

[King]

Re: All time New Zealand XI

The left hand batsman who was English really but defected- good ODI player dont remember his name. Played for Worcestershire.

Roger Twose you mean?

[Sooda]

Re: All time New Zealand XI THATS the one. Twose. V good ODI bat.

[Lurker]

Re: All time New Zealand XI Thanks for starting this thread Shwetabh. I dare say NZ All-time XI would perhaps be most unknown to most posters, certainly less known than say an Austalian or West Indies All-time XI and hence it is nice to see a seperate thread for it. The problem with creating all-time XI is two folds. One - it makes me sit down and write an entire thesis instead of quick XI names, not the best feeling for a reader at times. Secondly - it is almost impossible to pick heroes of yesteryears since their stats would barely stand infront of modern players. Take India for instance, CK Nayudu(greatest Indian player according to everyone who saw him play) would never make to Indian XI. A good example is how Sri Lankan greats like Roy Dias and Duleep Mendis would have to make room for modern day greats like Sangakarra and the lot. NZ suffers from the same problem. For a long time their best player was John Reid. A classic hard hitting cavalier batsman whose 16 sixes in an innings stood for 30 plus year as First class record. For years he stood between NZ and humiliation. On one occassion he scored a 100 when all the 10 players combined scored 39. I doubt that he would make the team as per modern day calculation. Specially hard since he was an all-rounder whose career stats would eventually read 58Test 3428 runs@33 85 wickets@33. Those stats would not be patch on Hadlee's, Chris Cairns's or dare I say even Lance Cairns's. Second cricketer that deserves to be heard of is Martin Donnely. Donneley unfortunately belonged to the lot of players tha suffered short-career due to Second World War and could only play 9 Tests. He managed to score 582@53 and would end with First class figures of 9000 plus runs@47. When noted commentator and former cricketing great CB Fry was asked as to who was the best player during WW era he mentioned stoically "Martin Donneley". The second best, as per Fry, was Walter Hammond a man who would end with career average of 59. That should be enough to say how good Donneley was. Here is a rather rare scorecard which you would perhaps not see very much. This was the cricket game played between England and Rest of colonies at the end of WW to celebrate. Dominions 1st innings DR Fell c Griffith b Wright 12 HS Craig c Davies b Phillipson 56 J Pettiford b Davies 1 KR Miller lbw b Hollies 26 MP Donnelly c & b Hollies 133 *LN Constantine c Hollies b Wright 5 CG Pepper c Hammond b Wright 51 DR Cristofani lbw b Edrich 6 RG Williams lbw b Wright 11 RS Ellis b Wright 0 +CD Bremner not out 1 Extras (lb 3, w 2) 5 Total (all out, 103.2 overs) 307 FoW: 1-37, 2-38, 3-90, 4-104, 5-109, 6-229, 7-240, 8-271, 9-279, 10-307. Bowling O M R W Phillipson 16 2 40 1 Edrich 9 1 19 1 Wright 30 2 90 5 Davies 22 9 43 1 Hollies 20.2 3 86 2 Langridge 6 1 24 0 England 1st innings LB Fishlock c Pettiford b Ellis 12 JDB Robertson lbw b Constantine 4 J Langridge lbw b Cristofani 28 WE Phillipson b Pepper 0 +SC Griffith c Bremner b Williams 15 *WR Hammond st Bremner b Pepper 121 H Gimblett c Pettiford b Cristofani 11 WJ Edrich c Pepper b Cristofani 78 JGW Davies lbw b Pepper 1 DVP Wright lbw b Pepper 0 WE Hollies not out 0 Extras (b 7, lb 6, w 2, nb 2) 17 Total (all out, 88.3 overs) 287 FoW: 1-8, 2-23, 3-36, 4-52, 5-78, 6-96, 7-273, 8-287, 9-287, 10-287. Bowling O M R W Miller 1 0 2 0 Williams 22 4 49 1 Constantine 15 2 53 1 Pepper 18 3 57 4 Ellis 4 3 4 1 Cristofani 23.3 4 82 3 Pettiford 5 0 23 0 Dominions 2nd innings DR Fell b Davies 28 HS Craig c Hammond b Davies 32 J Pettiford b Wright 6 KR Miller c Langridge b Wright 185 MP Donnelly b Wright 29 CG Pepper c Robertson b Hollies 1 *LN Constantine c Fishlock b Hollies 40 DR Cristofani b Wright 5 RG Williams c Hammond b Wright 0 RS Ellis st Griffith b Hollies 0 +CD Bremner not out 0 Extras (b 1, lb 8, nb 1) 10 Total (all out, 85.1 overs) 336 FoW: 1-49, 2-56, 3-96, 4-200, 5-203, 6-326, 7-336, 8-336, 9-336, 10-336. Bowling O M R W Phillipson 2 1 1 0 Edrich 3 0 13 0 Wright 30.1 6 105 5 Davies 13 3 35 2 Hollies 29 8 115 3 Langridge 8 0 57 0 England 2nd innings (target: 357 runs) LB Fishlock run out 7 H Gimblett b Pepper 30 WJ Edrich c Pepper b Ellis 31 *WR Hammond st Bremner b Cristofani 102 JDB Robertson c Fell b Pettiford 5 J Langridge b Pepper 15 JGW Davies b Pepper 56 +SC Griffith c Pepper b Pettiford 36 DVP Wright b Cristofani 0 WE Hollies not out 0 WE Phillipson run out 14 Extras (b 6, lb 5, nb 4) 15 Total (all out, 101.3 overs) 311 FoW: 1-25, 2-42, 3-128, 4-160, 5-200, 6-200, 7-293, 8-309, 9-311, 10-311. Bowling O M R W Miller 5 0 28 0 Williams 2 0 11 0 Constantine 6 0 27 0 Pepper 33 13 67 3 Ellis 20 4 54 1 Cristofani 21.3 1 64 2 Pettiford 14 3 45 2 Donneley's batting in first innings and Miller's hitting in second innings is part of folklore now(maybe some day I shall write about Keith Miller). Seeing as this post has become as long as it is let me pick my NZ XI now. Burt Sutcliff Glenn Turner Martin Crowe Stephen Fleming Martin Donneley John Reid© Chris Cairns Richard Hadlee Ian Smith(wk) Daniel Vettori Shane Bond. Honorable mentions: Wright, Coney, Geoff Howarth, Deeck Motz, Richard Collinge, Danny Morrison, Ewan Chatfield, Lance Cairns. xxxxx

[Sooda]

Re: All time New Zealand XI ^ Bit short on the bowling Lurker how about Taylor- swing bowling all rounder in the 60's and RICHARDSON!!..surely a better batsman than Fleming

[Lurker]

Re: All time New Zealand XI ^^ Sooda, good call about Bruce Taylor. Yes I had forgotten about him. Would I want him in my XI? I would say he would probably just about miss the cut. The reason being there already are two good all-rounders - Richard Hadlee and Chris Cairns - and it would be a bit too much of an overkill with three all-rounder, more so since there is already a more than decent part timer in John Reid. As for bowling looking a bit depleted my bowling attack would be Hadlee and Bond to open, with Vettori and Chris Cairns as second attack. with John Reid as fifth option. Now ideally I would have wanted another bowler but I think four shall do the job, plus anything extra would be just a repeat really. I wish NZ had a better variety in spin but alas Vettori is the only option there. I would also like to stick with Fleming since I have always seen play good when NZ is under pressure. You think of players who make most out of their abilities and Fleming is one of them. xxxx

[Predator_05]

Re: All time New Zealand XI No Richardson ? A guy with a batting average of 50 isnt good enough ? I'd have Morrisson in there as well

[Lurker]

Re: All time New Zealand XI

No Richardson ? A guy with a batting average of 50 isnt good enough ? I'd have Morrisson in there as well

Yes Mark Richardson was a good batsman but I personally have not rated him much. Sure his stats would show an average of 44 or thereabouts in Test cricket but he was basically one track pony. He would hold one end up. He did score some big tons but most of the time it was the kind where he would score 150 runs off 700 deliveries. I would be surprised if any of his big innings did anything for NZ. Think of Rahul Dravid at his slowest, then subtract another 20 runs from his strike rate and you get Richardson. Morrison was a good pace bowler but I find it hard to pick him ahead of the likes of Hadlee, Bond and Cairns. But if I did want to go with 4 pronged pace attack it would be a toss-up between Morrison and Collinge. xxx

[Predator_05]

Re: All time New Zealand XI Obviously not, but he belongs there in a four prong. Collinge ? Who the hell is that ? Morrisson would be a shoe-in; as he was always a very useful bowler who carried an average bowling attack. I am surprised you don't rate Richardson after all the runs he amassed against India. He was the only reason why IND failed to win in NZ back in the winter of '02, as far as i am concerned. The remainder of the Kiwi batting lineup would crumble and Richardson often guided them to safety with some very resilient innings. His 89 at Wellington was as good as an innings as one could hope for, as NZ rode on it to take an innings lead against IND. I don't buy the one track pony crap either; as this guy scored plenty in India, SL and WI. He is the best opening batsman NZ ever produced after John Wright, thereby warranting a place in the top order of an all-time XI.

[Sooda]

Re: All time New Zealand XI >>Think of Rahul Dravid at his slowest, then subtract another 20 runs from his strike rate and you get Richardson. LOL. He wasnt called Rigor for nothing.

[Predator_05]

Re: All time New Zealand XI Dravid scores at 42 and Richardson at 37 - not exactly leagues apart, are they ?

[MundaPakistani]

Re: All time New Zealand XI This all time 11 would beat the BAN and the ZIM all time 11...that's about it!

[MundaPakistani]

Re: All time New Zealand XI

This all time 11 would beat the BAN and the ZIM all time 11...that's about it!

perhaps SL as well!