Why pay lip service to Test cricket?

[Zap_Brannigan]

Lets look at the facts, # of IPL's before 2007 WC 1st round elimination - 0 # of IPL's between 2007 WC and winning 2011 WC - 3 # of IPL's between 2007 to 2011 that when we started to climb to #1 (ranking take 3 years into consideration) and our 1 year stay at # 1 - 4 # of IPL's between 2011 SA series (when we drew in SA for 1st time) to the 2 loss series - 1 # of IPL finds in the test team or the ODI team that won 2011 WC - 0 # of IPL finds in the test team that lost 8-0 - 0 So its only natural that people blame IPL for all the losses but dont give any credit for any wins. All i ask journalists or anyone here blaming IPL, choose one. If you blame IPL for the 8-0 loss, then admit that IPL is also responsible for ODI #1, test #1 and WC. Its only logical. Or the IPL had nothing to do with both the failures and the successes of the team.

[Zap_Brannigan]

Foreigner are obviously better than the Indian locals. Its a mathematical probability. If we consider that there are 10 good players in the top 8 teams, then on an average each IPL team will have 1.1 good Indian player and 4 good foreign player.

[vvvslaxman]

I never refuted that we performed absolutely poorly in the England and Australia series, but since the theme of the article is IPL, I dont believe IPL was the reason for our rout. It was the batting decline of our middle order at the same time along with the failure of openers. The reason why the quality of foreigners is better in IPL because only the good performers (potential) are getting bought and selected in the squads. With lesser number of spots for them in the team, only the best (out of a larger talent pool) end up playing and naturally they perform better. No cricketing nation (let alone India) can produce 9 high quality teams solely from its domestic reserve. Without foreign and Indian stars (International XI) IPL will be little more than a domestic T20 tourney which will garner little attention. If the effect of IPL has to be judged, it is to be judged by the performance of our U15, U017 teams whose formative years came after the lucrative tournament started.

What does 2 month long IPL tournament bring ? India got any better in the very format IPL was designed for. If anything we got eliminated in 2nd round in back to back world T20 getting completely humiliated. They completely looked jaded in each tournament. In one tournament Kirsten had to speak about IPL and got reprimanded promptly. Dhoni himself admitted they got tired after IPL. IPL was designed to fill the coffers of BCCI. Let us not pretend it was designed to identify some great international cricketer for us. Considering the current form of India, they can even make it a 4 month affair that way India doesn't have to play internationals and get humiliated.

[jairamesh]

Which of these defeats can be blamed on IPL :hmmm: except perhaps Viru delaying his surgery to play in IPL. By that same token we should also credit our drawn Saffer series and the World cup win to IPL, which would be absurd The truth is that we lost both the series because of the decline in our much vaunted middle order and the failure of others to step up to cover the decline. The bowling lineup was never strong anyway and Zaheer is the only standout bowler among occasionally good performances by others, and even he failed in Oz. If IPL poses a threat, its in the fact that youngsters will mould their skills to suit T20 rather than the longer format, but if that happens the effect would be visible 2-3 years down the line rather than now. I personally think this would be offset by the larger number of youngsters drawn to the sport and improvement in sporting infrastructure and of domestic cricket, but only time will tell.

Exactly. It's still incredible at the lack of scathing criticism at the BCCI, selectors, and seniors for failing to see the creaks in the "Fab Four" setting in during the South Africa tour of India in 2010. The selection scandal during that 1st Test is still unforgivable. Every series since then, the ageing batting line-up had one too many collapses against mediocre pace bowlers, how can anyone forget Chris Martin running through the Indian line-up in the 4th innings nearly inducing an embarrassing defeat. Monga's wishful sarcastic attack on IPL is understandable but to glare over the obvious failure in Tests over the last 12 months had nothing to do with IPL but poor planning from BCCI, players, and the big feck Rhodesian hippo. IPL is lazy man's excuse to cover-up India being at sh!t at Test over the last two years. If anything, the ODI squad is stronger then ever with most bases covered. And who the feck cares about T20 internationals anyways.

[jairamesh]

What does 2 month long IPL tournament bring ? India got any better in the very format IPL was designed for. If anything we got eliminated in 2nd round in back to back world T20 getting completely humiliated. They completely looked jaded in each tournament. In one tournament Kirsten had to speak about IPL and got reprimanded promptly. Dhoni himself admitted they got tired after IPL. IPL was designed to fill the coffers of BCCI. Let us not pretend it was designed to identify some great international cricketer for us. Considering the current form of India' date= they can even make it a 4 month affair that way India doesn't have to play internationals and get humiliated.

Really! You are fretting over T20s!!!:hysterical:

[vvvslaxman]

Really! You are fretting over T20s!!!:hysterical:

Well t20 itself is a crappy format. If at all you are going to be good at, atleast be good at international so that we can support Indian players doing well. What is the point of having a 2 month long slogfest ? Tell me .. what is the objective of it..without using the word money.

[vvvslaxman]

One thing i notice most of the IPL defenders are ardent fanboys some franchises :cantstop: . I watch IPL. But please don't try to sell me as a serious cricket :cantstop: regardless of how much money it makes , how much crowd it draws.

[jairamesh]

Well t20 itself is a crappy format. If at all you are going to be good at' date=' atleast be good at international so that we can support Indian players doing well. What is the point of having a 2 month long slogfest ? Tell me .. what is the objective of it..without using the word money.[/quote'] IPL was Lalit Modi's brainchild idea to create product appealing to the masses and a short version of a cricket game lasting 3 hours fitted the bill perfectly. The objective of the IPL is simple, entertainment. Besids IPL is ONLY 5 years old!, how can one expect it produce superstar T20 specialists straightway, currently all the players still come through the classical first class set-up. Even Kieren Pollard and Gayle weren't the product of T20, they just got lucky. I have yet to come across a single successful professional cricketer who has come through purely T20 set-up for T20. It will happen one day, but not today, probably at least another 4-5 years away.

[vvvslaxman]

IPL was Lalit Modi's brainchild idea to create product appealing to the masses and a short version of a cricket game lasting 3 hours fitted the bill perfectly. The objective of the IPL is simple, entertainment. Besids IPL is ONLY 5 years old!, how can one expect it produce superstar T20 specialists straightway, currently all the players still come through the classical first class set-up. Even Kieren Pollard and Gayle weren't the product of T20, they just got lucky. I have yet to come across a single successful professional cricketer who has come through purely T20 set-up for T20. It will happen one day, but not today, probably at least another 4-5 years away.

and Money.. why having it for 2 month long.. Imagine Australia, England , Bangladesh, Srilanka, West Indies all promote such leagues and all players are allowed to take part in it.. Say it takes about 8 months for all the leagues. how would you create a window in such a scenario. Would you encourage such a scenario? Where would you fit international cricket? Shall we abolish international cricket and focus only on leagues?

[ganeshran]

What does 2 month long IPL tournament bring ? India got any better in the very format IPL was designed for. If anything we got eliminated in 2nd round in back to back world T20 getting completely humiliated. They completely looked jaded in each tournament. In one tournament Kirsten had to speak about IPL and got reprimanded promptly. Dhoni himself admitted they got tired after IPL. IPL was designed to fill the coffers of BCCI. Let us not pretend it was designed to identify some great international cricketer for us. Considering the current form of India' date= they can even make it a 4 month affair that way India doesn't have to play internationals and get humiliated.

You are shifting the goalposts here. First you were debating the effect of IPL. Now you are talking about the purpose for which it was created. Only blind critics and idiotic fanboys of BCCI would actually believe it was designed for some serious contribution to Indian test cricket or manufacture internationally successful players for us out of nowhere(each for their own different reasons). IPL was created simply for two reasons - to counter the ICL and to cash in on the hype that the inaugural T20 world cup win created. End of. The domestic tournament to further our international cricketing ambition is the Ranji trophy and other smaller domestic tourneys. Our failures in test cricket overseas and inability to fill the number 6 spot for a good two years should be blamed on the Ranji and poor selection policies. You want to judge the effect of IPL on our T20 fortunes, wait for a couple of years. Let the youngsters who are currently a work in progress in our system come out and then see how they perform. If we start measuring the fortunes of IPL with our test team's fortunes, then it is the expectations which are out of place

[Gunner]

Superb article. Totally agree with it.

[vvvslaxman]

You are shifting the goalposts here. First you were debating the effect of IPL. Now you are talking about the purpose for which it was created. Only blind critics and idiotic fanboys of BCCI would actually believe it was designed for some serious contribution to Indian test cricket or manufacture internationally successful players for us out of nowhere(each for their own different reasons). IPL was created simply for two reasons - to counter the ICL and to cash in on the hype that the inaugural T20 world cup win created. End of. The domestic tournament to further our international cricketing ambition is the Ranji trophy and other smaller domestic tourneys. Our failures in test cricket overseas and inability to fill the number 6 spot for a good two years should be blamed on the Ranji and poor selection policies. You want to judge the effect of IPL on our T20 fortunes, wait for a couple of years. Let the youngsters who are currently a work in progress in our system come out and then see how they perform. If we start measuring the fortunes of IPL with our test team's fortunes, then it is the expectations which are out of place

There are so many later side effects which will unwind in the coming years. Tiredness, players taking rest from international duties, players quitting one form over the other, players quitting international cricket altogether, players play couple of internationals and completely abandon internationals and prepare exclusively for IPL. It is also foolhardy think that IPL causes zero effect on national performances. Yes you cannot directly quantify it. Just look at the sequence of events. India won world cup. Within one week IPL. Sehwag played through injury. He skipped Windies series and part of England series to fix his injury. So we lost an opener. Gauti picked up a shoulder injury in world cup final. He played for IPL then he was advised to take rest and missed Windies tour and half of England tour. Two openers gone. In such a scenario Tendulkar should have played that series as a preparation ahead of marquee series against England. Already 3 victims. I am not going to buy any bullsh** excuses for their absence from that tour. Sunny echoes the same thing. Lot of cricketers know the impact. But they won't open their mouth as it will only hurt their career in IPL. [ame=http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xknipv_missing-west-indies-tour-has-harmed-sachin-gavaskar_news]Missing West Indies tour has harmed Sachin: Gavaskar - Video Dailymotion[/ame]

[ganeshran]

There are so many later side effects which will unwind in the coming years. Tiredness, players taking rest from international duties, players quitting one form over the other, players quitting international cricket altogether, players play couple of internationals and completely abandon internationals and prepare exclusively for IPL. It is also foolhardy think that IPL causes zero effect on national performances. Yes you cannot directly quantify it. Just look at the sequence of events. India won world cup. Within one week IPL. Sehwag played through injury. He skipped Windies series and part of England series to fix his injury. So we lost an opener. Gauti picked up a shoulder injury in world cup final. He played for IPL then he was advised to take rest and missed Windies tour and half of England tour. Two openers gone. In such a scenario Tendulkar should have played that series as a preparation ahead of marquee series against England. Already 3 victims. I am not going to buy any bullsh** excuses for their absence from that tour. Sunny echoes the same thing. Lot of cricketers know the impact. But they won't open their mouth as it will only hurt their career in IPL. Missing West Indies tour has harmed Sachin: Gavaskar - Video Dailymotion

So you are blaming player's absences for our debacle in England. What happened in Australia - we had matchfit Viru, Gauti, Sachin, RD and VVS all had ample match practice, Zaheer stayed fit for the entire series - then why did we lose with the same scoreline against a weaker side than England? Viru's absence in the initial series and Gauti's absence from windies tour can be attributed to the IPL - thats about it. The decline in the batting was setting in for quite a long time - right from the Saffer series - it just wasnt apparent till the twin whitewashes. One more factor was players taking it easy after the World cup victory. Like I posted earlier, IPL merely fulfils a demand for casual fast paced cricket with entertainment. If BCCI doesnt organize it, some other group will organize it to capture the market. The only way IPL and other leagues will stop if the public stops following it and they cease to make profits. If all boards tomorrow abandon every other format and start organizing only tests - then cricket will die in a few years. At the end of the day, cricket and the respective boards need money to survive and invest on the sport. Today T20 is the flavor of the season which has good following, tomorrow it could be something else and cricket has no choice but to the listen to the market and provide what it wants. This doesnt mean the traditional formats should be abandoned in place of the shorter formats and no board is doing that. Tests still have quite a few followers who continue to appreciate it, just that this group is not large enough to solely focus on tests and still make enough money to make the format viable as a career choice to upcoming cricketers.

[Executioner]

I accept that if cricket is to survive, you have to leave test cricket. For example, for survival of some tribes, they have to leave behind some of the weak members who are a burden to the tribe. Test cricket consumes 5 days of non-stop and very less animated cricket. T20 is a good product for cricket. If cricket is to survive, T20 is the only way to make that happen. Because the matches are: 1) Short Durations 2) Less delays 3) More action: sixes, wickets, diving, runouts what more? everything happens quickly 4) Greater chance of a close finish 5) It makes the matches more competitive because it reduces a gap. Bcoz a strong team like Aus or India can win 5 or at least 4 times out of 5 against BD( :(( ) BUt come T20 we have a better edge so fans will be more eager. 6) The matches are held when people are relieved of work. ppl leave work at 3PM, so they can go home and be prepared to watch the match

[ganeshran]

I dont understand why one has to "leave" test cricket for T20. Both will continue to coexist just like Tests have with ODIs. If anything its the ODIs which have to fear T20 since both address a similar audience. The only difference is we might not get to see 4 test series and 2 and 3 test series will end up becoming the norm.

[Executioner]

And talking abt IPL, IPL is def. a good thing for Indian cricket. However, the issue is the overdose and too much greed. Players resting from intl cricket just to stay fit for intl cricket shows how selfish they are. Thats why I feel that many players dont play for their country, but for self, to show what they really are not to make their countrymen proud. thats why I respect guys like Dravid so much. if sehwag was half as generous as the great man i mentioned just previously, things wudve been a lot different. The issue with IPL is that its helping foreigners but hurting Indians at the end of the day. The foreigners dont play all the matches, so whatever few matches they play they can say that they had good practices. But the locals play 16-19 matches which takes a srs toll on your body and your players become weakened. Here i blame players for not taking breaks in between the matches, something which cudve created opp. for youngsters. BPL on the other hand did wonders to our cricket. Ever since bpl, our players gained a lot of confidence and guys like sakib and mushfiq whom we thought werent meant for T20 became very good players for the version. Each team plays about 10-11 which is much less. Id advice the IPL body to have a rule that each player cant play all the matches, they will have to sit out at least 2 matches. Thats the only way players will get rest. And those who think that IPL is behind the teams success I disagree. India has a good FC system that produces top quality batsman, batsman that cud walk into other sides easily. For example, it wudve been superb is som1 like rahane played for bangladesh, tamim and rahane opening the batting....

[vvvslaxman]

So you are blaming player's absences for our debacle in England. What happened in Australia - we had matchfit Viru, Gauti, Sachin, RD and VVS all had ample match practice, Zaheer stayed fit for the entire series - then why did we lose with the same scoreline against a weaker side than England? Viru's absence in the initial series and Gauti's absence from windies tour can be attributed to the IPL - thats about it. The decline in the batting was setting in for quite a long time - right from the Saffer series - it just wasnt apparent till the twin whitewashes. One more factor was players taking it easy after the World cup victory. Like I posted earlier, IPL merely fulfils a demand for casual fast paced cricket with entertainment. If BCCI doesnt organize it, some other group will organize it to capture the market. The only way IPL and other leagues will stop if the public stops following it and they cease to make profits. If all boards tomorrow abandon every other format and start organizing only tests - then cricket will die in a few years. At the end of the day, cricket and the respective boards need money to survive and invest on the sport. Today T20 is the flavor of the season which has good following, tomorrow it could be something else and cricket has no choice but to the listen to the market and provide what it wants. This doesnt mean the traditional formats should be abandoned in place of the shorter formats and no board is doing that. Tests still have quite a few followers who continue to appreciate it, just that this group is not large enough to solely focus on tests and still make enough money to make the format viable as a career choice to upcoming cricketers.

Winning is a habit.. so is losing. India's gross under-preparation for England tour has cascading effect They have been running like headless chickens from that point. Only positive was Kohli. Dravid played brilliantly in England. He failed only in Australia. Only guy who failed in both places was Laxman. Tendulkar did okay in Australia. But barely okay. India's main problem was opening. Both of them never had time to acclimatize themselves in England. One of the key reason why India reached top spot was because of Indian openers. Why did Sachin Tendulkar want to spend time with his family skipping a test series something he couldn't do during IPL? I don't deny IPL will continue growing . They might even expand the number of teams with more matches. Bubble won't burst. It is a cash cow. It is a business. BCCI won't kill it.

[ganeshran]

Winning is a habit.. so is losing. India's gross under-preparation for England tour has cascading effect They have been running like headless chickens from that point. Only positive was Kohli. Dravid played brilliantly in England. He failed only in Australia. Only guy who failed in both places was Laxman. Tendulkar did okay in Australia. But barely okay. India's main problem was opening. Both of them never had time to acclimatize themselves in England. One of the key reason why India reached top spot was because of Indian openers. Why did Sachin Tendulkar want to spend time with his family skipping a test series something he couldn't do during IPL? I don't deny IPL will continue growing . They might even expand the number of teams with more matches. Bubble won't burst. It is a cash cow. It is a business. BCCI won't kill it.

I would have accepted the cascading effect part if the tours were back to back, but they werent. Thre was ample time in between (Eng ODI,, WI test and ODI), rest for the players who didnt play the ODIs and more tour matches to Australia and enough time to prepare there. The truth is that our batting was in decline and no one was is admitting that important point. The debacle in Australia had nothing to do with IPL nor with the English tour defeat. Three was was no RP singh, no Sreesanth. New fresh bowlers, Zak survived the entire series - Viru was matchfit so no Mukund. Gauti 's injuries were a thing of the past - No Bhajji or No-ball Mishra either. The IPL effect everything went with the Windies series and spilled over in Viru's case to some of the England tour. Period. Using the IPL and a cascading defeats to explain away defeats which happened almost 8-9 months after the tournament got over makes no sense at all. Our reason for failing overseas is solely the batting decline of our middle order and Viru and Gauti being out of form. You can take out all the IPL injuries and misses and we would still have lost the England series comprehensively. The Australia debacle is anyway not related to the IPL. In a sense the Durban win overshadowed the cracks that had started to appear in our team performance

[asterix]

I think the Indian team relaxed after winning the WC2011. The lack of motivation was clearly visible in all the touring players (young & old). There were many other factors like injury and lack of preparedness.. New dumb coach also didn't helped. Call this an afterthought, but BCCI babus should plan a little bit for future. I mean scheduling tough abroad tours after a sub-continent WC..That too after IPL etc. On top of that ECB does it's own scheduling by having Test matches to start the tour and followed by ODIs. Ideally a tour should start with couple of T20s, then 5 ODIS and followed by Test matches.. Also the Oldies were on their way downhill... PS: There could be tension and groupism between Dhoni and other senior players..

[jairamesh]

@vvs It's seems you are finding it difficult to accept that Indian batting line-up over the last 12 months was just sh!t. No amount of preparation, acclimatization, resting would have changed the results. The pathetic thing in Australia was they got clean swept by Aussie 2nd choice bowling attack. Hell, look at England they did three months of prep work for their Asian tour early in the year, but still got clean swept by mid-level ranked Pakistan side, because fundamentally their batting sucked at playing good quality spin on a turning track. Fundamentally our batting just sucked playing against regular good length pace good bowling. It wasn't a barrage of pace and short balls that did the Indian batting. I mean Dravid's dismissal types in Australia were unheard off before.