Harbhajan's appeal [Merged]

[Rajiv]

Seriously, if someone is called Monkey and takes it as a racial comment, would a strongly built person like Symonds come out with a gayish comment like Symonds to Harbhajan at the end of an over: "Go and yell at your teammates...You called me monkey again." I mean in India, when you want to curse someone, do we say" Aapki to mein Bhaja daloonga" or " Bahut Bura kiya aapne Bh***d " There was no anger or expression, as if he is giving his opinion

[IndianRenegade]

From the transcript, if indeed it is true, How many here believe that Bhajji told the words " Teri Maa Ki" and not the word "Monkey". Honestly, I dont. It is very strange for someone to abuse another person in a language that the second person person doesnt understand. The whole point of the abuse is lost. Delving a bit deeper, any person would speak in his mother to a person who doesnt understand it, only under extreme provocation and if he is extremely angry. Seeing from the videos, I dont find any evidence of Bhajji being extremely angry or animated, rather, he seems in a retaliatory mood, wanting to give some "goodies" back to Symmonds. Now, would he have done that in Hindi ? Or English ? Make your own judgments.

Bhajii was obviously being referred to as a Gay by Symmonds, I am sure that would have turned Bhajji on. More over Bhajji's face was to the back of the camera while the supposed words where being spoken. So we have no means of knowing how angry Bhajji was.

Another revealing aspect of all this is, Symmonds had this to say to Bhajji's counsel, Now, where does any term, sounding anything close to the word " Big" appear in the phrase " Teri Maa Ki" ? And this obviously suggests to me that Bhajji actually did call Symmonds " Big Monkey" and not " Teri Maa Ki". So, where does this leave us all now ? Did Bhajji really say the word " Big Monkey" Or is Symmonds simply making up the charge to get Bhajji in trouble ? In the mid-pitch video that has the transcripts of the conversation between the players, Symmonds says something along the lines of,

If you look at the transcript, Symonds, reaction seems to be one of surprise: "...you just called me a monkey." But Symonds claims in the hearing that Bhajji repeatedly called him monkey, monkey, big monkey... I really don't buy that argument. As his words "you just called me a monkey" means that he heard a word similar to monkey as Harbhajan spoke and not repeatedly.

It is quite strange to see an "abused" person, and in this case its Symmonds, actually repeat the abuse term, right in the middle of pitch, knowing that it will be picked by the stump microphones. Now, did he do that to simply make it look as though Bhajji abused him, or was he really offended by the term, we will never know.

He wasn't sure of what he heard, I reckon.

But what seems to implicate Bhajj is this set of conversation of between him and Hayden. Hayden says,

Hayden : You just got yourself a witness, champ Bhajji : Its the last time....... he started it Hayden : Doesnt matter. Its racial villification mate. Its a sh!t word and you know it Bhajji : * no response*

I think there is a problem with the transcript, this is what the transcript of the age says:

Matthew Hayden: "Twice. You've got a witness now champ." Hayden approaches Harbhajan. Hayden: "That's the last time." Harbhajan: "No listen he started it." Hayden: "Doesn't matter mate, it's racial vilification mate. It's a **** word and you know it." Soon after, Michael Clarke approaches umpire Mark Benson.

"Thats the last time" was said by Hayden and not Bhaajji, Bhajji saying thats the last time would mean he said it! More over I don't know how any mike will pick up a "NO RESPONSE" - it is probably audio not audible. Thats what the NDTV transcript suggests.

Hayden: You know this is a S*** word, this is racial vilification. This is the second time you're doing this Hayden: You don't know what you have done. Harbhajan: Audio inaudible (Audio inaudible when Sachin tries to calm things down)

Now, why would Bhajji fall silent had he really not uttered those words " Big Monkey" ? Besides, I really dont see why 4 of the Australian players would simply cook up charges to get Bhajji into trouble. My assessment of this thing is, Bhajji did say the word " Big Monkey", but has been let off because of lack of evidence, as simple as that.

In fact we will have to go by the word of symonds alone. Why? Coz this is what hayden says:

Manohar to Hayden: Did you hear Harbhajan call Symonds a big monkey? Hayden: I didn't hear him, but I heard Symonds say "Did you call me a monkey?" So I told Harbhajan "that's the second time you have said it. It's racial vilification."

He didn't even hear what Bhajji said! He has gone by what Symonds had supposedly heard. Clarke was no where in the frame, actually just before the conversation starts you can see him crossing the pitch to his fielding position. There was no chance of him hearing it. Further more, Why would some one say you have got a witness straight away? When you know your colleague has been abused, your reaction should be one of contempt and dismay and not that you are witness [which he wasn't as he didn't hear anything].

[Zap_Brannigan]

see, this made me laugh. its the BCCI who are abusing their standing off the field. they know they have a higher 'pull' and that they can use it to their advantage. for example, the removal of bucknor. or the stance that unless harbhajan is cleared, we will not play the one dayers. a stance taken BEFORE the hearing. that is blackmail. so unless the BCCI starts to fall into place with the other cricket boards and look at everybody else as an 'equal', there wont be any eveness.

Maybe you should read the full comment. It is obvious BCCI is abusing it power, but ICC is not doing a good job in treating all the nations as equals. Aus has got away with way more **** than this. I dont believe i am in the minority here when i say that every underhanded trick by the BCCI is not as bad as what Aus has done on field in the last decade. Aus and ICC are scum and if it takes another scum like BCCI to enter the fray to level the playing field then i am all for it.

[IndianRenegade]

see, this made me laugh. its the BCCI who are abusing their standing off the field. they know they have a higher 'pull' and that they can use it to their advantage. for example, the removal of bucknor. or the stance that unless harbhajan is cleared, we will not play the one dayers. a stance taken BEFORE the hearing. that is blackmail. so unless the BCCI starts to fall into place with the other cricket boards and look at everybody else as an 'equal', there wont be any eveness.

You keep whining that India was a blackmailing, who cares? You had no proof and Bhajji is no racist.

[Desi Cartman]

here is something interesting: If Bhajji did call Symo a monkey and the aussies heard it then it means that JUST for $ they are ok to see a team mate get insulted. If ACB made them change their appeal then all of us (I mean Indias or Aussies) should be pointing finger at the ACB. In this case BCCI backed their player and the ACB didnt. People were quick to say shame on Bhajji but if they still beleive Symonds: will they say the same for ACB , Ponting , Clarke , Hayden etc etc for withdrawing their original appeal.

[Pancho]

You keep whining that India was a blackmailing' date=' who cares? You had no proof and Bhajji is no racist.[/quote'] who cares ? gee, how do i agrue against that logic. how can you condone that ?

Aus has got away with way more **** than this. I dont believe i am in the minority here when i say that every underhanded trick by the BCCI is not as bad as what Aus has done on field in the last decade.

really ? you sure about that ? Team offences since 1997 India - 43 Pakistan - 39 South Africa - 27 Australia - 25 England - 21 Sri Lanka - 18 Zimbabwe - 15 New Zealand - 14 West Indies - 13 Player Offences Sourav Ganguly - 12 Inzamam ul-Haq - 11 Shoaib Akhtar - 7 Graeme Smith - 6 Glenn McGrath - 6 Harbhajan Singh - 5 and please.. spare me the "india are bullied" argument. face it, all teams sledge. all teams have their players who go too far.

[Rajiv]

see, this made me laugh. its the BCCI who are abusing their standing off the field. they know they have a higher 'pull' and that they can use it to their advantage. for example, the removal of bucknor. or the stance that unless harbhajan is cleared, we will not play the one dayers. a stance taken BEFORE the hearing. that is blackmail. so unless the BCCI starts to fall into place with the other cricket boards and look at everybody else as an 'equal', there wont be any eveness.

:haha::haha: Pretty fast with a new ID

[Rajiv]

who cares ? gee, how do i agrue against that logic. how can you condone that ? really ? you sure about that ? Team offences since 1997 India - 43 Pakistan - 39 South Africa - 27 Australia - 25 England - 21 Sri Lanka - 18 Zimbabwe - 15 New Zealand - 14 West Indies - 13 Player Offences Sourav Ganguly - 12 Inzamam ul-Haq - 11 Shoaib Akhtar - 7 Graeme Smith - 6 Glenn McGrath - 6 Harbhajan Singh - 5 and please.. spare me the "india are bullied" argument.

Why don't you do some real research and tell us the amount of times you guys got away, your players should be in jail by now

[Zap_Brannigan]

Thats exactly our point, Mr Pancho or Patau or whtever. A few years back, slater claimed a bump catch off Dravid. Dravid did not move. The umpire called upstairs even when Slater was shouting abt his "integrity" and wanting the umpire and dravid to believe his word. It turned out to be a clear case of "bump catch" and 3rd umpire gave it not out. Slater then began shouting at Dravid and the umpire. And he got way with it. Mcgrath, got way with threatening to kill Chanderpaul (or was it sarwan). So in order for Aussies to get in the book, they have to do something worse that that. Meanwhile ganguly gets slapped with an offense if India didn't bowl the last 5 overs on time.

[Desi Cartman]

Pancho, What do you think of ACB/CA .. do you reckon they should have backed their players ? if so then you should be blaming CA not BCCI. if the Aussie players are angry then they should be asking these questions to CA not complaining about pulls that BCCI have.

[Pancho]

Thats exactly our point, Mr Pancho or Patau or whtever. A few years back, slater claimed a bump catch off Dravid. Dravid did not move. The umpire called upstairs even when Slater was shouting abt his "integrity" and wanting the umpire and dravid to believe his word. It turned out to be a clear case of "bump catch" and 3rd umpire gave it not out. Slater then began shouting at Dravid and the umpire. And he got way with it. Mcgrath, got way with threatening to kill Chanderpaul (or was it sarwan). So in order for Aussies to get in the book, they have to do something worse that that. Meanwhile ganguly gets slapped with an offense if India didn't bowl the last 5 overs on time.

i was fairly ashamed of those 2 players with those events. they should have been fined/suspended whatever. but come on now, your team is far from being the group of angels you are making them out to be.

[IndianRenegade]

who cares ? gee, how do i agrue against that logic. how can you condone that ?

The same way you say India must take the umpiring blunders on the stride and carry on. After all Aussies won the game. Aussies are rejoicing the 2-1 victory and they don't care about how it happened. But when I say I don't care how Bhajji got free, you start to how can I condone that? LOL! For your info: Is the proof that Bhajji used that word? NO So whats the joke abt?

[IndianRenegade]

i was fairly ashamed of those 2 players with those events. they should have been fined/suspended whatever. but come on now, your team is far from being the group of angels you are making them out to be.

Your statistics mean nothing. Slater & McGrath got away with near murder on field. Goes to show that aussies are let off easily. So how do you expect the aussies to be anywhere near the top in ICC team offences when they go free with near murder? but Indians get fined for anything & everything...

[Pancho]

Pancho, What do you think of ACB/CA .. do you reckon they should have backed their players ? if so then you should be blaming CA not BCCI. if the Aussie players are angry then they should be asking these questions to CA not complaining about pulls that BCCI have.

the players are angry at their board. i wish they did back their players. but in the end, if india went through with their threat, $60 million losses in the courts would have began to stare them in the face. but they also have a right to be angry towards the BCCI. we are accused of not playing within the spirit of the game. do you think its within the spirit of the game if BCCI threatens to pull the indian team because they didnt get what they wanted ? before the hearing had taken place ? the whole tour is one to forget in my opinion. it will be remembered for its off field controversy, more than its on field performances, which no one likes. cricket was the biggest loser in all this.

[IndianRenegade]

i was fairly ashamed of those 2 players with those events. they should have been fined/suspended whatever. but come on now, your team is far from being the group of angels you are making them out to be.

Whatever you may feel, the fact remains these players escaped near murder on field. Its not a big deal that they where let off on other minor offenses...

[IndianRenegade]

the players are angry at their board. i wish they did back their players. but in the end, if india went through with their threat, $60 million losses in the courts would have began to stare them in the face. but they also have a right to be angry towards the BCCI. we are accused of not playing within the spirit of the game. do you think its within the spirit of the game if BCCI threatens to pull the indian team because they didnt get what they wanted ? before the hearing had taken place ? the whole tour is one to forget in my opinion. it will be remembered for its off field controversy, more than its on field performances, which no one likes. cricket was the biggest loser in all this.

It was not because BCCI didn't get what they wanted but it was because the aussies got what they wanted. Symonds & other aussies accuse Bhajji as a racist, okay whats the proof? The Aussies say so, says Proctor. And you seriously want us to accept such nonsense and play!

[Pancho]

The same way you say India must take the umpiring blunders on the stride and carry on. After all Aussies won the game. Aussies are rejoicing the 2-1 victory and they don't care about how it happened. But when I say I don't care how Bhajji got free, you start to how can I condone that? LOL! For your info: Is the proof that Bhajji used that word? NO So whats the joke abt?

gee you're a naive little fella arent ya ? if you arent ashamed at the way your board acted and you actually support similar threats/actions/abuse of position to get your own way in the manner of which you have just demonstrated, you're only as good as us then.. you lost the series, yet you seem elated about winning this off field squabble ? id be more concerned about winning the action of the field.. :haha:

[dAvoZ]

So the facts from what I can see is that India have the worst stats for team offences than any other nation over the past decade. And the counter argument is a few examples of when Australia got away with "near murder" that is somehow supposed to show Australian players are treated leniently by the ICC, to the point where Australia has 18 less team offence charges? Anyone can show countless examples of poor Indian behaviour that was never cited. The facts however, speak for themselves.

[Pancho]

It was not because BCCI didn't get what they wanted but it was because the aussies got what they wanted. Symonds & other aussies accuse Bhajji as a racist' date=' okay whats the proof? The Aussies say so, says Proctor. And you seriously want us to accept such nonsense and play![/quote'] you really need to pull your head out of the sand and read my posts. no you dont have to accept the findings. you had every right to appeal. but there are proper ways to go about it ! not threatening to cancel a tour ! before the hearing ? come on.. how do you know the judge wasnt going to let him off anyway ? but the BCCI felt as though they needed to let them know if he doesnt get off, theyre going home. honestly, your board has behaved in a school yard manner.. the very manner you accuse us of stooping to. the whole "im taking my bat and ball and going home" idea is the type of stuff my 8 year old nephew gets involved in. there are processes in place if you wish to appeal. the BCCI chose other means. but hey.. as long as they get what they want ?

[Jimoi]

So did tendulkar actually hear anything from the other side of the pitch? Because if he didn't it would be heresy yeah? I mean the players closest to where it happened was hayden, symonds and harbijian not tendulkar