Symonds : To have people questioning my integrity as a person

[16 str8]

So you think homosexuality is a sin? :congrats:

Wow, that was such a sharp and witty comeback. You really showed me. I know, how about making a joke about my mum next? That seems about all your intellect is capable of. btw, as you avoided the question about racism, I will assume that you have no problems with racially vilifing another person. How sad for you.

[chanakya]

Wow, that was such a sharp and witty comeback. You really showed me. I know, how about making a joke about my mum next? That seems about all your intellect is capable of. btw, as you avoided the question about racism, I will assume that you have no problems with racially vilifing another person. How sad for you.

So we assume that you believe homosexuality is a sin. As for Symmonds will someone take him to school and make him realize that if you don't have evidence then you cannot judge the person is guilty. 1) Lack of evidence does not mean that your integrity is being questioned. 2) If you yourself are not 100% sure then what are you talking about? 3) If you started it then why are amazed that people are complaining that you started it. And as the judge pointed out we hope that international cricketers do not think like you do. Has it occurred to playing hard and fair is the way you think may not be correct?

[The Outsider]

Then why does Indiancricketfans.com tolerate racism? Or is it just certain races that are allowed to be racially vilified on this forum? It reflects very poorly on India.

www.indiancricketfans.com does not tolerate racism, but your twisted definition of racism is not followed here either. As I said there are hundreds of black international athletes and none barring one is referred to as a monkey on this forum. Grow some bloody perspective.

[16 str8]

www.indiancricketfans.com does not tolerate racism' date= but your twisted definition of racism is not followed here either. As I said there are hundreds of black international athletes and none barring one is referred to as a monkey on this forum. Grow some bloody perspective.

Funny that, seeing as though this is a cricket forum...... So on your method, I can single out just one Indian for racial abuse, so long as I don't vilify more than one athlete? Or are you denying the fact that monkey is racist? Becuase if you are that is possibly the stupidest thing I have read on this forum so far.

[The Outsider]

Funny that, seeing as though this is a cricket forum...... So on your method, I can single out just one Indian for racial abuse, so long as I don't vilify more than one athlete? Or are you denying the fact that monkey is racist? Becuase if you are that is possibly the stupidest thing I have read on this forum so far.

Symonds' "abuse" as a monkey did not start off racially because monkey in India does not have racist connotations to start off with. Whether Indians are not civilized or modern enough to give the term monkey racist connotations is a separate debate but that's a fact. After being called a monkey from a tiny minority of the crowd Symonds needlessly complained about racism without understanding the culture of the country he was visiting and being an ignoramus like you are and what has followed is a reaction to being bull headed and shallow about other cultures in the world. Indians were magnanimous enough to let the abuse by Hogg slide by, which is considered terrible in India BTW, but to expect tolerance from d!ckheads like Symonds about other civilizations is perhaps expecting too much, and the funny part is his rhetorics are finding support in a country which is still coming to terms with what is racial and what is not.

[16 str8]

Symonds' "abuse" as a monkey did not start off racially because monkey in India does not have racist connotations to start off with. Whether Indians are not civilized or modern enough to give the term monkey racist connotations is a separate debate but that's a fact. After being called a monkey from a tiny minority of the crowd Symonds needlessly complained about racism without understanding the culture of the country he was visiting and being an ignoramus like you are and what has followed is a reaction to being bull headed and shallow about other cultures in the world. Indians were magnanimous enough to let the abuse by Hogg slide by, which is considered terrible in India BTW, but to expect tolerance from d!ckheads like Symonds about other civilizations is perhaps expecting too much, and the funny part is his rhetorics are finding support in a country which is still coming to terms with what is racial and what is not.

Oh dear, this from a mod? Does this forum have any creditability? You seem to be big on tolerating and understanding one's culture. So why do the Indians not repsect Symonds culture? Whether Indians find it offensive or not the fact of the matter is that Symonds does, a point which he made very clear way back in the Indian ODI series. So why continue to call him a monkey when it is clearly racist? I would like to see you travel to the states (USA) and call an African American a monkey. You would see how needless Symonds complaint is then. And lol a tiny fraction of the crowd? Are you blind, or biased to the point of stupidity? I have seen the footage from that series, and it was not "a tiny fraction" of the crowd doing the monkey dance/chant. More like the majority. India has really showed the world it's true colors in the last few months.

[The Outsider]

So why continue to call him a monkey when it is clearly racist? I would like to see you travel to the states (USA) and call an African American a monkey. You would see how needless Symonds complaint is then.

It's not right to continue to call him a monkey after he has shown his displeasure at it, but it's definitely not racist. I live in the US BTW, and have been a victim of some real racism at times as opposed to the odd monkey word. As I said, Australia as a country is a long way from understanding what racism is being an open supporter of the policy till a few years back. Maybe, some years down the line when you and Donny understand what a terrible concept racism is, we can continue this discussion but at the moment it's hyperventilation on your part without any understanding of racism.

And lol a tiny fraction of the crowd? Are you blind, or biased to the point of stupidity? I have seen the footage from that series, and it was not "a tiny fraction" of the crowd doing the monkey dance/chant. More like the majority.

Can you show me footage of more than a few hundred people acting that way?

[16 str8]

It's not right to continue to call him a monkey after he has shown his displeasure at it' date=' but it's definitely not racist. I live in the US BTW, and have been a victim of some real racism at times as opposed to the odd monkey word. As I said, Australia as a country is a long way from understanding what racism is being an open supporter of the policy till a few years back. [b']Maybe, some years down the line when you and Donny understand what a terrible concept racism is, we can continue this discussion but at the moment it's hyperventilation on your part without any understanding of racism. Can you show me footage of more than a few hundred people acting that way?

And I have no intention in attempting to have an argument with you on this particular topic, if you are not man/intelligent enough to acknowledge monkey as racist. You do not like my point of view so you are trying to make out as if I do not understand the concept. I would have expected better from a mod, but once again, Indiancricketfans.com has dissapointed. But please, elloborate on the points you have made regarding Australia and racism, I am more than interested to hear what you have to say. Maybe I could respond with Gandhi's attitude towards black people, or the prejudice that still exists in India towards minorities? And no, I d not have access to the footage, but it was a show called "An Aussie Goes Bolly." I hope you can track it down soon. It's worth a look.

[talksport]

Nice debate going on here....but could guys discuss this here http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=50792

[The Outsider]

And I have no intention in attempting to have an argument with you on this particular topic, if you are not man/intelligent enough to acknowledge monkey as racist. You do not like my point of view so you are trying to make out as if I do not understand the concept.

I don't know how to make it clearer. Monkey is not racist in India which is where all this started. When people saw Symonds making an issue out of a non issue and playing the race card where it was not called for, they reacted by bringing it in everywhere and anywhere they could. How is that racist?

I would have expected better from a mod, but once again, Indiancricketfans.com has dissapointed. But please, elloborate on the points you have made regarding Australia and racism, I am more than interested to hear what you have to say. Maybe I could respond with Gandhi's attitude towards black people, or the prejudice that still exists in India towards minorities?

Please don't bring in my moderator status in every post. I post as a poster 99.99% of the times and only act as a moderator when things spiral out of hand. Also, am sorry to hear indiancricketfans.com has disappointed you, but there is very little I can do about it because it is a forum for free exchange of ideas not where only ideas pertaining to a certain idealogy are entertained. Of course, India has huge social problems with regards to minorities both communal and caste based. I have zero hesitation in acknowledging and discussing it in a separate thread because I am well aware of those issues and am a part of an organization leading an effort in tribal education. How is any of it relevant to what we are discussing here ie. Australia still struggling to come to terms with racism? Or are you trying the cheap and often used debating tactic specially prevalent on online forums of trying to divert the topic by introducing a topic which is likely to hit the other poster because it is something he identifies with. Sorry, am too old to fall for all that. Regarding Australia and racism, it's a country where the practice was institutionalized till not far back and many of it's current residents are still from that era and/or have progenies today. Such things don't whither away by passing a law but take at least a few generations to die out. It's a well known and acknowledged fact among sociologists that such a situation either leads to continued racism or a hyper sensitive attitude towards racism, without really understanding what racism is.

[chanakya]

Is calling other people racist because they do not ascribe to your view of the world also not racism? Aren't you implying that the other is not 'man/intelligent' or a lesser person than you. So aren't you being racist here?

[16 str8]

Is calling other people racist because they do not ascribe to your view of the world also not racism? Aren't you implying that the other is not 'man/intelligent' or a lesser person than you. So aren't you being racist here?

Nope, completely different. There are intelligent/unintelligent people in every race. And questioning a persons gender is just not racism, whichever way you look at it. However, if I do happen to make a remark that you, or anyone else deem racist, then I will stop saying that instantly. Even if it is not racist to me, I will stop. That is what civilised people do, rather than chanting that word and performing dances in the stands. Will you do the same and quit saying monkey? Or ask others that say it to stop?

[MundaPakistani]

there u go rajeev:

Good one!!:haha:

I dont want what I see..I already have a dog at home and my apartments dont allow monkeys

unbelievable!

[The Outsider]

However, if I do happen to make a remark that you, or anyone else deem racist, then I will stop saying that instantly. Even if it is not racist to me, I will stop. That is what civilised people do, rather than chanting that word and performing dances in the stands. Will you do the same and quit saying monkey? Or ask others that say it to stop?

Yes that is the decent thing to do, and the people in the crowd who continued to do it were criticized on this very forum by most and most here also said Harbhajan should be punished if it can be proven that he uttered the monkey word at Symonds. All that, does not make the remark itself racist though. Moreover, the person in question here, Symonds, is known for his boorish and whining behavior and has been proven by a judge to have instigated the entire episode and is on record saying that civility towards the opposition does not have a place on the cricket field. Such a person does not deserve any sympathy.

[16 str8]

Yes that is the decent thing to do' date=' and the people in the crowd who continued to do it were criticized on this very forum by most and most here also said Harbhajan should be punished if it can be proven that he uttered the monkey word at Symonds. All that, does not make the remark itself racist though. Moreover, the person in question here, Symonds, is known for his boorish and whining behavior and has been proven by a judge to have instigated the entire episode and is on record saying that civility towards the opposition does not have a place on the cricket field. Such a person does not deserve any sympathy.[/quote'] So, if a person is considered "boorish and whining" then it is fine for him to be racially villified? And again you state once again that the word isn't racist. Look up monkey in the list of ethnic slurs in wikipedia, and see what it says. Anyway, seeing as though Murali hasn't been tough enough to tour Australia at times in the past, then he is boorish and whining, no? Therefore there is no problem with him being hit by eggs? (Which did not happen btw, despite what the Indian media may say)

[The Outsider]

So, if a person is considered "boorish and whining" then it is fine for him to be racially villified? And again you state once again that the word isn't racist. Look up monkey in the list of ethnic slurs in wikipedia, and see what it says. Anyway, seeing as though Murali hasn't been tough enough to tour Australia at times in the past, then he is boorish and whining, no? Therefore there is no problem with him being hit by eggs? (Which did not happen btw, despite what the Indian media may say)

People in India who started calling him a monkey did not make those wikipedia entries and were probably unaware of them as well. How has Murali been boorish? Has he instigated confrontations with the opposition? Has he been on record saying that civility with the opposition does not have any place in cricket? And just because the eggs missed their target does not mean it was not attempted.

[IndianRenegade]

People in India who started calling him a monkey did not make those wikipedia entries and were probably unaware of them as well.

Did the people in India mimic a monkey because Symonds resembled closed to one? If so they were racist.

[The Outsider]

Did the people in India mimic a monkey because Symonds resembled closed to one? If so they were racist.

I don't know what was in the minds of those people who said it, but as a general phrase monkey is not a racist term in India.

[IndianRenegade]

I don't know what was in the minds of those people who said it' date=' but as a general phrase monkey is not a racist term in India.[/quote'] Agreed.

[Chandan]

So, if a person is considered "boorish and whining" then it is fine for him to be racially villified? And again you state once again that the word isn't racist. Look up monkey in the list of ethnic slurs in wikipedia, and see what it says. Anyway, seeing as though Murali hasn't been tough enough to tour Australia at times in the past, then he is boorish and whining, no? Therefore there is no problem with him being hit by eggs? (Which did not happen btw, despite what the Indian media may say)

For heaven's sake, please understand that monkey is not a racist word IN INDIA. If you call me monkey here, it will not be considered racist. However, if anyone is aggreived by that term, it won't be used simply because it is offensive to him!