Sreesanth haters come out of the cave

[Guest HariSampath]

I completely disagree that Sreegarkar is a match winner in ODIs. Take a look at his career stats : In 36 ODI inngs, his carrer econ rate is 5.7 , which is very high. He has taken 55 wkts which is just 1.5 wkts per game with a strike rate of one wkt in 33 balls. To me this means he is going to have a match analysis of 10-0-57-(1-2wk) or every 2 games, he is going to have bowled 20 overs for 114 runs and 3 wkts. Apart from that in 16 of his 36 games, he has econ rate of more than 6.0 rpo, with a liberal sprinkling of 8+ and 9+ games. More importantly he gives away huge overs during crucial stages of the inngs and mostly at the top too, letting the opponent get off to a flier and frequently India end up gasping and chasing the game which is slipping away. This results in early bowling changes, plan going awry, field changes etc and it becomes a big mess for the next 15 overs. And what do we get for all this in return ? an occasional busrt of 2 very good wkts, which is a very poor tradeoff for all that Sreegarkar is allowed. Take a look at his T20 stats. He has played 10 games at an econ rate of 8.47 !! and just 7 wkts. To me this means even his average t20 figures are going to be 4-0-34-( maybe 1 wkt), which again means that the opposition are off to a start of 50 in 5 overs with just maybe a wkt lost which is almost a losing position for India. And how many ODIs has Sreegarkar won for India ? How many 4fers or decisive 3fers at least...very less in 36 ODIs and 10 T20s, considering how much he had given away. Anyone wants to spend a ton of money to bid for him in IPL ??? ( or should he join Agarkar at ICL ? ):D

[msb1991]

Sreesanth is currently a lesser Shaun Tait. With Sree, it is either: 10-0-70-1 OR 10-0-70-3 OR 10-2-30-4 Unfortunately, it seems we get far too much of the former two and not enough of the latter.

[msb1991]

Take a look at his T20 stats. He has played 10 games at an econ rate of 8.47 !! and just 7 wkts.

On a general basis, it would seem that T20 stats are often neglected. I am not calling for T20 specialists, but more the axing of those who have tried and failed at it. Jimmy Anderson is an example of a tried failure who England still go to.

[Guest HariSampath]

Sreesanth is currently a lesser Shaun Tait. With Sree, it is either: 10-0-70-1 OR 10-0-70-3 OR 10-2-30-4 Unfortunately, it seems we get far too much of the former two and not enough of the latter.

Out of 36 ODIs, Sreegarkar ( when counting ALL his 3+wkts/game), has taken 28 wkts in 8 games, and in the remaining 28 games, he has taken 27 wkts....just view this from an overall perspective... If he plays 9 games, he will take a 3fer TWO times ( and go for 5.7 + ) and remaining 7 games he will average LESS than ONE wkt/game and go for 6.5+ or even 7.5/8+.....and he cant hold a bat...and average fielder. And if THIS is our matchwinner...lets forget about it.

[bunny]

Lol. Trust me' date=' I know my stuff about fast bowling.[b']All fast bowlers impart backspin on the ball. This counter rotation of the ball forms the basis for swing. It causes the ball to kiss the pitch and carry rather than hit the bat hard (like Alex Tudor used to) - you may have heard the term 'heavy ball' for this. Sreesanth imparts so much backspin onto the ball, that the ball tends to spend more time in the air, than otherwise. This makes his good length damn near unplayable, but shorter balls come on to the bat easily and fuller balls tend to float, giving the batsman time to react. I am not necessarily saying that it is a bad thing, just a bit of analysis.

Yeah fast bowlers do impart back spin but the question is how much does the speed reduce? But I have always thought it helps in controlling the seam position. On camera I have never seen the ball spinning in the opposite direction (unlike a basketball), so it's unclear how much the back spin reduces the speed after release.

[msb1991]

Yeah fast bowlers do impart back spin but the question is how much does the speed reduce? But I have always thought it helps in controlling the seam position. so it's unclear how much the back spin reduces the speed after release.

Yes. It is all speculation by me, but it makes sense considering swing bowlers impart more backspin on the ball and have the ball in the air for longer than a hit the pitch bowler bowling the same length. It is not a bad thing, per se, but it is if you bowl the wrong lengths like Sreesanth does. He will be a world beater if he can get a consistent length. It is no coincidence that his balls pitched in the corridor on a good length are untouchable. It does help keep the seam straight, provided you have released it correctly.

[bunny]

Out of 36 ODIs, Sreegarkar ( when counting ALL his 3+wkts/game), has taken 28 wkts in 8 games, and in the remaining 28 games, he has taken 27 wkts....just view this from an overall perspective... If he plays 9 games, he will take a 3fer TWO times ( and go for 5.7 + ) and remaining 7 games he will average LESS than ONE wkt/game and go for 6.5+ or even 7.5/8+.....and he cant hold a bat...and average fielder. And if THIS is our matchwinner...lets forget about it.

While I started an exactly similar thread I do believe that Sreesanth has the potential to be good. But, only if the team makes him realize this. He has been like this for a year or so but has shown no improvement. (The game against Aus now seems like an aberration). It clearly seems that once he gives a match winning performance everything is forgotten (by himself, the team management and the fans).

[msb1991]

While I started an exactly similar thread I do believe that Sreesanth has the potential to be good. But' date=' only if the team makes him realize this. He has been like this for a year or so but has shown no improvement. (The game against Aus now seems like an aberration). It clearly seems that once he gives a match winning performance everything is forgotten (by himself, the team management and the fans).[/quote'] He needs basic line and length training. Just getting the ball on the same spot 5 times out of six is valuable to him.

[bunny]

Yes. It is all speculation by me, but it makes sense considering swing bowlers impart more backspin on the ball and have the ball in the air for longer than a hit the pitch bowler bowling the same length. It is not a bad thing, per se, but it is if you bowl the wrong lengths like Sreesanth does. He will be a world beater if he can get a consistent length. It is no coincidence that his balls pitched in the corridor on a good length are untouchable. It does help keep the seam straight, provided you have released it correctly.

In basketball players do impart a lot of back spin, which helps in controlling the direction and speed, but also provides a soft touch as you say. But the amount of spin they impart is huge (especially when you compare it with the forward velocity, and you can see the ball spinning). I have also met fast bowlers (seam up types) who claim that they use their wrists to impart a forward push which increases the speed. So, i think a reverse is definitely possible. If it can be caught on camera that will be awesome.

[Guest HariSampath]

He needs basic line and length training. Just getting the ball on the same spot 5 times out of six is valuable to him.

basically he needs a brain transplant...thats all

[msb1991]

I have also met fast bowlers (seam up types) who claim that they use their wrists to impart a forward push which increases the speed. So' date=' i think a reverse is definitely possible. If it can be caught on camera that will be awesome.[/quote'] Even though it is said that there is a forward push, all fast bowlers impart backspin on the ball as almost a seperate feature. It is the thing that stops the ball going directly into the ground. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvSWyCfvJIc]Akhtar[/ame] Watch the backspin. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi5hvo9NWkE]McGrath[/ame] Keep your eye on the second clip

[bunny]

Even though it is said that there is a forward push, all fast bowlers impart backspin on the ball as almost a seperate feature. It is the thing that stops the ball going directly into the ground.

Watch the backspin.

Keep your eye on the second clip

Yeah seems like a good bit of spin in the first clip. I think it'd be interesting to note the speeds generated by Sreesanth, Ishant etc. at release, just before pitching and after. That can definitely help in concluding if the back spin does reduce the speed of the ball substantially.

[maaki]

My Back is Spinning after reading this thread.. One win and we make someone a hero , one loss and start the cries bring back ganguly , dump the youngsters.. Jayasurya has gotten stuck into the best of bowlers, so Shree getting stick shouldn;t be a surprise. I think Dhoni didn;t plan well for a 29 over game.. he should have played 5 bowlers instead he was 1 bowler short Utapha and Pathan did not even get to bat.. Show some bad planning and going about our batting.. We were almost 30-40 short of what we should have scored. Not really Shrees fault there.. Every bowler has a bad day.. but we did not have anyone to cover him.. Pravin Kumar should have had a game in place of Utappha or Yuvi..

[maaki]

Stop this Crap Spin opps back spin

Even though it is said that there is a forward push, all fast bowlers impart backspin on the ball as almost a seperate feature. It is the thing that stops the ball going directly into the ground.

Watch the backspin.

Keep your eye on the second clip

[msb1991]

Stop this Crap Spin opps back spin

It is not my fault that you don't understand fast bowling.

[maaki]

:haha:

It is not my fault that you don't understand fast bowling.

[Dhondy]

Watched the videos msb, and I see what you mean. Wonder why you insist on using the word "backspin" though? To me it just looks like imparting revs on the ball. Is this a term you have coined yourself? Perhaps it's a term more applicable to a spinner?

[IndianRenegade]

Watched the videos msb, and I see what you mean. Wonder why you insist on using the word "backspin" though? To me it just looks like imparting revs on the ball. Is this a term you have coined yourself? Perhaps it's a term more applicable to a spinner?

I have heard this term being used by even Waqar & wasim

[Dhondy]

I have heard this term being used by even Waqar & wasim

That explains it. Those guys could sure bowl fast, but I wouldn't lay store by their talking skills. Is it a surprise that between them, they haven't been able to "spawn" a single promising fast bowler for Pakistan? Backspin for a pacer is very much an oxymoron, because a pacer doesn't spin and the ball doesn't travel backwards. What they are doing is breaking the wrist at the point of delivery, which achieves two things. Firstly, the ball deviates when it hits the pitch, secondly, the bounce is often surprising and unpredictable. Of course, it slows the delivery down, but that's no rocket science. The bowler is deliberately sacrificing speed for movement and variation. I wouldn't have thought for a moment that Sreesanth uses that delivery six out of six.

[msb1991]

Watched the videos msb, and I see what you mean. Wonder why you insist on using the word "backspin" though? To me it just looks like imparting revs on the ball. Is this a term you have coined yourself? Perhaps it's a term more applicable to a spinner?

No, backspin is the commonly used term to describe the 'revs' on the ball when a pace bowler is bowling. Thanks for seeing what I mean too.