Anakin Posted February 22, 2008 Posted February 22, 2008 Avi bhai' date=' do you work for an environment/wildlife agency or is animal/environment welfare something you strongly feel about? I'm asking this because I've seen pretty strong views from you regarding these topics.[/quote'] I'm an avid documentary watcher, specially about nature and wild lives. I've come to appreciate the true beauty of nature and the animals and strongly disagree with the notion that we're the "best" creation of God or whatever or we're somehow superior to other animals. No I don't work for any environment agency, but I plan to spend some of my free time for the animal welfare. I'd have already done it if I was not so damn lazy by nature or if I could lose interest in cricket.
Guest HariSampath Posted February 22, 2008 Posted February 22, 2008 One more thing I want to clarify...I am a HUGE wildlife junkie, particularly the African big 5, the big cats and most specifically the wild Lions. I had been involved with protection campaigns for the Masai Marah Lions as well as the genetic factors affecting the crater lions . I had never ever missed any Simon King episode...and I DO believe that such Lion behavior is "possible", but not probable..I had seen the entire "Born free" and "living free" series as a kid and had written letters for Elsa the Lioness's sakes as a kid, and I do accept that big cats are highly human sensitive ( Cheetahs dont even care about humans when they are in midst of a hunt, and do socialize very well)...but this particular video was surprising, but possibly true I dont deny. I had been feeding a Tigress from the time she was 2 weeks old, used a milk bottle ( in USA)..when Jasmine the tigress became older, some 7-8 months , she was quite a big size at the zoo where I used to visit 2 times a week, but still friendly to me, I used to hold her by the leash and sometimes walk her...but 2 years later when I visited the zoo, I was advised not to go anywhere near Jasmine, she had become a fullgrown tigress...all I could do was stroke her head through the bars , which she did allow, but not with the freedom as before...and she did snap often....and as her keeper said " whatever it is , she is a tigress, we need to remember that"...
Lurker Posted February 22, 2008 Posted February 22, 2008 For all you doubters: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1290483.ece Ab what do I say. Gambo ne dil pe le liya :nervous: Seriously though what surprises me is not the lion's humane act but the whole kissing saga, never heard any animal do that really.
Anakin Posted February 22, 2008 Posted February 22, 2008 Not only that, she has been imprisoned in a freaking cage. I wonder how anyone (human) would behave and I can bet my bottom dollars it'll be much worse than these big cats which by nature are so much more free-movers than us.
Guest HariSampath Posted February 22, 2008 Posted February 22, 2008 ^...but one thing, big cats are extraordinarily scent sensitive, and this woman's scent could have triggered of earlier memories of being "cared for", and "friendliness" in the lion...particularly as he was in captivity..and as as said before....its not kissing really...wild big cats express plasure by licki ng face, we see it in our domestic dogs/cats too
CC1981 Posted February 22, 2008 Posted February 22, 2008 I am tempted to think the vid is a fake' date=' its just not possible to stand ground when such a big lion is leaning and resting its weight on you, this woman was not even staggering. my Doberman is 70 lbs and sometimes when he jumps on me suddenly with his front legs on my shoulders, even I would be off balance for a moment and a lion is 10 times heavier.[/quote'] The video is real. And the lion is not resting/leaning its weight on the lady, its leaning/resting its weight on the METAL BARS OF ITS CAGE. Its just reaching out through the bars with its paws and hugging/grabbing the lady. I thought it'd have been obvious to someone with your supposedly amazing grasp of the sciences.
CC1981 Posted February 22, 2008 Posted February 22, 2008 so discriminatory thinking is not exactly a rule you can expect from various species of animals, it is extremely rare, if at all existent. It is not that rare and definitely existent, though there are several species who arn't capable of such. You missed the most OBVIOUS reason for an Anaconda not having gratitude/affection but an elephant or a Dolphin having it: Its all about memory capacity. In short, the Anaconda doesn't have enough RAM in its computer to retain that information for longer than a few moments, many animals do.
Guest HariSampath Posted February 22, 2008 Posted February 22, 2008 The various species of animals are driven by different needs of self preservation and other relatively developed instincts...Dophins had been known to guide stranded swimmers toward shores, and I cannot imagine what factors of "memory", or "RAM" comes into play as these mammals had never even been in any prior contact with those humans before..Its probably a case of the genetic development of the species that allows greater affinity / friendliness with humans. Pet constrictors like pythons have been known to attack the human owners , mistaking them for food, despite long association with same individuals, and obviously the memory/RAM factor doesnt work here.
CC1981 Posted February 22, 2008 Posted February 22, 2008 The various species of animals are driven by different needs of self preservation and other relatively developed instincts...Dophins had been known to guide stranded swimmers toward shores' date=' and I cannot imagine what factors of "memory", or "RAM" comes into play as these mammals had never even been in any prior contact with those humans before..Its probably a case of the genetic development of the species that allows greater affinity / friendliness with humans. Pet constrictors like pythons have been known to attack the human owners , mistaking them for food, despite long association with same individuals, and obviously the memory/RAM factor doesnt work here.[/quote'] what is the basis of your claim that these mammals have never been in prior contact with humans before ? The concept of memory/RAM is very elemental to this discussion, since higher brain function is almost completely memory-driven. It has been argued in science circles (and is accepted by the scientific community by and large) that memory is the fundamental ingredient to intelligence. This is because intelligence is to do with thinking and thinking cannot be accomplished if you do not have memory. Imagine if you were a snake and whatever you happen to input in your brain is retained for only 5 seconds. How can you have thinking and come to thinking-related conclusions ? Now, if you were an eliphant with years-long memory, you clearly have the ability to think on an issue. This is why eliphants can be traumatized while snakes cannot be- an elephant can remember an event for very long and depending on how it perceives the event ( as traumatizing or happy event), it can think on that event for a long time, thus developing traits. As you can see, memory is clearly the fundamental building block of intelligence/interactions that isn't purely instinctual. That an elephant is far friendlier to man than an anaconda is directly down to memory- elephant can retain info for a very long term- about an individual or about a species. An Anaconda's brain loses that information after just a few moments because it does not have enough capacity to store/process such information for long. And quite obviously, you are missing the point- the pet python attacks its owners often precisely because of its lack of memory. Snakes have very little memory to speak of. If you have very little memory, you retain very little information about your owner or the species of your owner. 5 minutes after start of interaction, the Anaconda or python is back at square one, where it loses the info about who you are, what you are doing, etc etc. Hence it can NEVER progress to more interaction, since interaction is based on memroy-constructed understanding of events. Memory and ability to retain information is key and critical to behaviour in all species.No memory = no consistency in behaviour except for purely instinct driven behaviour. Lots of memory = lots of unique behaviour, produced by memory adaptive functions, as seen with creatues with extensive memory like elephants. Rather simple, really. As for Dolphins guiding swimmers- Dolphins are prone to playsome behaviour that is often mistaken as 'guiding swimmers'. It has been proven over time that most dolphins just like to play with humans because Dolphins, like many many animal species, can percieve us to be the 'PRIME ALPHA SPECIES' on this planet.
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