Question to the Aussie fans regarding their teams behaviour?

[Mr. Wicket]

Sorry, that is not MY vision of a good cricket captain. Having one of your fastest bowlers deliberately bowl deliveries that had a high probability of causing injury, serious ones at that, isnt my view of excellent or sportsman like captaincy. This isnt a war, this is sport.

DRJ would disagree. He called it battle, service, sport and art. But he put battle first. :D

[bharat297]

Personally, I would pick Brearley as Englands greatest ever captain.

[Ram]

DRJ would disagree. He called it battle, service, sport and art. But he put battle first. :D

I know what DRJ's opinion was. I am more interested in knowing whats YOUR opinion. Anyways, I think we just got topic of our chat later tonight. We'll leave this at that :D

[Mr. Wicket]

Question of opinions there, but either way, no doubting Jardine's place in the game's history. And not because of his sportsmanlike qualities.

[Mr. Wicket]

I know what DRJ's opinion was. I am more interested in knowing whats YOUR opinion.

I'd give anything to see a man like Jardine in India. The way he scored his maiden test ton sums him up beautifully. He said all that stuff about battle/service/etc, but when it came to being in the firing line himself, he truly earned the 'Iron Duke' nickname.

[Predator_05]

Hehe. Sportsmanship is EVERYTHING dude. Tis a pity you dont realize it. Look, sport isnt about numbers, for us to keep updating our ledger books with which team won how many matches and who scored how many runs. Its about two teams competing, both of 'em giving their best and we, as a viewer should be able to feel that intensity. However, what adds to the "entertainment package" as i would call it, is the fact that both sets of players mutually respect each other. There is no fun in watching a war, the real fun is watching a contest. The Aussies are making it look like a war. As I said before, I am totally for competitive cricket, but this isnt the sort of cricket I would like to watch.

For you. Sportsmanship doesn't mean sh it, yaar. Do you get a trophy for being a good sport ? No, you don't. Sport is all about records - the wins, the losses. That is what all the intensity you speak of materialises into. It's the desire to WIN at all costs, with sportsmanship being strictly an afterthought, that motivates athletes to play at their best. The most entertaining moments in sport (at least in the sports i follow) are seen when sportsmanship and other noble deeds go right out the window and the adrenaline takes over. If you disagree with this, then you don't know good sport. Simple question for you; would you call Indian cricketers *******s and condemn their behavior on the field if they had a record like Australia's ? Yes or no ? I wouldn't, and i don't think you would either. In fact, i'd love them for it.

[Ram]

Question of opinions there' date=' but either way, no doubting Jardine's place in the game's history. And not because of his sportsmanlike qualities.[/quote'] Eh, even Osama Bin Laden has a big place in history. So does Mahatma Gandhi. You must know the difference between fame and notoriety.

[Mr. Wicket]

Yes, but Osama doesn't have a portrait in the Long Room at Lord's next to/facing (I can't remember, it's been years since I was there) Bradman's, nor did have some of the most prominent and well respected Australian writers, journalists and cricket pundits singing his praises. :D

[Ram]

Yes' date=' but Osama doesn't have a portrait in the Long Room at Lord's next to/facing (I can't remember, it's been years since I was there) Bradman's, nor did have some of the most prominent and well respected Australian writers, journalists and cricket pundits singing his praises. :D[/quote'] Bah.. At one point, Osama Bin Laden was the single most popular man in Pakistan and the middle-east, according to public surveys. One man's hero and another man's villain !

[Mr. Wicket]

Yeah, but the word of Jack Fingleton sways it. :D Keep in mind that Fingleton took more than his fair share of blows as an opening batsman, and struggled immensely in the Bodyline series. If anyone had a reason to ***** about Larwood and DRJ, it would be him. He was one of the few voices defending them at the same time when all Australia hated their guts, and remained strong in his praise of both even after Australia softened towards both. And the Pakistan/MCC comparison is really strange. Jeez, quit looking for reasons to knock Jardine - go grab a copy of Bodyline Autopsy and Cricket Crisis, and go read up on the man. Hard not to admire him when you start to learn about the events and aftermath of full tour, rather than just the highlights of it.

[Ram]

For you. Sportsmanship doesn't mean sh it, yaar. Do you get a trophy for being a good sport ? No, you don't. Sport is all about records - the wins, the losses. That is what all the intensity you speak of materialises into. It's the desire to WIN at all costs, with sportsmanship being strictly an afterthought, that motivates athletes to play at their best. The most entertaining moments in sport (at least in the sports i follow) are seen when sportsmanship and other noble deeds go right out the window and the adrenaline takes over. If you disagree with this, then you don't know good sport. Simple question for you; would you call Indian cricketers *******s and condemn their behavior on the field if they had a record like Australia's ? Yes or no ? I wouldn't, and i don't think you would either. In fact, i'd love them for it.

Pred, you seem to assume that being a world-beating team and a team that plays in a dignified cricket are two mutually exclusive phenomenon. Absolutely not, you dont need to look further beyond the Windies team of the 70s and 80s to see that you win matches and yet play in a fair, respectful way.

Simple question for you; would you call Indian cricketers *******s and condemn their behavior on the field if they had a record like Australia's ? Yes or no ? I wouldn't, and i don't think you would either. In fact, i'd love them for it.

I would oppose, tooth and nail, ANY Indian behavior that gives indication that there is a chronic culture of bullying and dis-respect towards the opposition. Thats not what I want to see from a team. As i said, I dont care about the results, as long as I know our team gave the best.

[Predator_05]

Pred, you seem to assume that being a world-beating team and a team that plays in a dignified cricket are two mutually exclusive phenomenon. Absolutely not, you dont need to look further beyond the Windies team of the 70s and 80s to see that you win matches and yet play in a fair, respectful way. I would oppose, tooth and nail, ANY Indian behavior that gives indication that there is a chronic culture of bullying and dis-respect towards the opposition. Thats not what I want to see from a team. As i said, I dont care about the results, as long as I know our team gave the best.

Well, that's just sad. ...and no, i don't think that dignified behaviour and sporting success are mutually exclusive. That said, you don't need to be dignified all the time to be successful. You are wrong about the Windies team, BTW. They sure as hell weren't dignified. Incidents like Holding kicking down the stumps and shoving the umpires around are well-documented. I am sure the history buffs here could tell you more

[Rajiv]

You guys are comparing sportsmanship v.s Behaviour, they don't follow exclusively in the same umbrella Behaviour is something you are brought up with, Sportsmanship is something you learn

[Mr. Wicket]

They sure as hell weren't dignified. Incidents like Holding kicking down the stumps and shoving the umpires around are well-documented. I am sure the history buffs here could tell you more

What about Haynes (as stand in captain) dragging the over rate to about 6/7 an over, just to blatantly rob England of a victory, and his ilk sledging relentlessly when they felt like it? Or Lloyd instructing his men to deliver short balls in torrents (as bad as anything Jardine implimented), with again ridiculous over rates of 10-11 an over to let them also recuperate and slow the game down to his pace? Or the sort of obscene home umpiring favours WI got (that Gavaskar) through sheer bias? WI's players weren't saints. And heck, if Australia's team goes the same way (unlikely), another generation might be clamouring for more cricketers like Hayden and Ponting when the side's struggling.

[Pancho]

remember, the australian team was widely criticised down here after the ashes defeat in england, for being overly friendly with the opposition. they would visit the changerooms after the days play for a few beers etc.. many people believed were were to chummy with them and we had lost our competitive edge, hence, we lost the series. im glad we have a hardline approach these days.. a ruthless streak in our team. you can go on all you like about 'giving it a 100%' and saying well batted to each player as he is dismissed.. gimme a team of pontings and haydens anyday.

[bharat297]

remember' date=' the australian team was widely criticised down here after the ashes defeat in england, for being overly friendly with the opposition. they would visit the changerooms after the days play for a few beers etc.. many people believed were were to chummy with them and we had lost our competitive edge, hence, we lost the series.[/quote'] Hang on ... that doesn't sound good. So it seems that the Australian team need to abuse and sledge opposition teams, otherwise they lose matches.

[Pancho]

no. average attempt to play on my words. their mindset was criticised. it wasnt THE factor in why we lost the series.

[bharat297]

I didn't play on your words ... lol ... it was a direct quote. You said that the Australian team were too friendly with the English team, therefore they lost their competitive edge, therefore they lost the series. So basically they need to be un-friendly to be competitive and win series'.

[Whisper]

remember, the australian team was widely criticised down here after the ashes defeat in england, for being overly friendly with the opposition. they would visit the changerooms after the days play for a few beers etc.. many people believed were were to chummy with them and we had lost our competitive edge, hence, we lost the series. im glad we have a hardline approach these days.. a ruthless streak in our team. you can go on all you like about 'giving it a 100%' and saying well batted to each player as he is dismissed.. gimme a team of pontings and haydens anyday.

it was actually Peter Roebuck who first labelled them too friendly... the same Peter Roebuck who called for Ponting's sacking when they weren't friendly enough. typical whingeing pom he is! anyway i prefer the hardline approach that has won the last 3 world cups, champions trophy and EVERY eligible test trophy. India can keep the T20 world championship though... we all know its not real cricket anyway.

[bharat297]

anyway i prefer the hardline approach that has won the last 3 world cups, champions trophy and EVERY eligible test trophy. India can keep the T20 world championship though... we all know its not real cricket anyway.

The problem is not with the hardline approach, because many teams over the years had gotten used to the hardline approach by the Aussies. The problem I have is that now the Aussies are complaining about a similar hardline approach adopted by Sreesanth, Harbhajan and Ishant. Its a 2-way street here and the Aussies don't get it. As Tony Greig said "They are happy to dish it out, but complain when it is given back". When they dish it out, they use the phrase "what happens on the field stays on the field", when they are given it back, they bring up "the spirit of cricket".