Who was the most complete pace bowler of all time?

[Harsh Thakor]

On 4/3/2019 at 9:45 PM, Tattieboy said:

Malcolm Marshall is most complete fast bowler . As an opening bowler with new ball Akram was not in Marshalls league 

Marshall was a greater performer with more accuracy and determination.However Wasim was more versatile or innovative and mastered art of  reverse swing more.Wasim was under-performed .He was also lethal with a new ball and at his fastest even quicker than Marshall.Nobody equaled Wasim's wizardry as fast bowler who was the ultimate magician.

[Harsh Thakor]

On 4/3/2019 at 7:29 PM, rtmohanlal said:

for me , it has to be Curtley Amborse ..... belonged to an  at the best 'good' team. Yes.... Walsh,Lara,Chanderpaul and him made the team 'good'. His   record has been mighty impressive in both the formats. In one dayers his econ: is 'out of the world'.Has enough longevity too .So  it has to be him.

 

Omissions and reasons:

Steyn .... despite having great record in both formats, especially  in these comparatively better batting friendly   conditions,  his one day econ: is too  large for  a great bowler.Also, have high doubts  that some times he deliberately chucked. Mentally was not that tough either on crucial occasions(a SAF trait)

 

Mcgrath - belonged to an ATG team in which being 'very good' was the minimal standard of every player.So he could feed off from other great players performances, especially that of another legend Warne's . Warne provided such variety to the team.

 

Donald - faltered when pitted for the 'top spot' vs Aussies

 

FAB 4 of WI - They too complimented each other. Marshall & Roberts were not that greats in one of the formats either.

 

Walsh .... was more of a work horse whose avg:ed  bordered around that 25 mark .Consistancy rather than ' being lethal' was his strength. Also very moderate in one dayers too.

 

Bishop - lack of longevity.Not great  in one dayers either.

 

Hadlee - despite having a great record in both formats & being the lone strike bowler in the team , he too can be suspected a lot of having involved in the evil practice of tampering. His interviews reflects that a lot.

 

Lillee - his records in sub continent are not at all convincing  .

 

Wasim & Waqar - Don't  take the track records of these 2 as such any more for a start, due to tampering. They were quality bowlers despite that , no about.

 

Imran - one who benefitted the most from ball tampering.So can't take his track record as such by even a bit.

 

others are either too young or too old to provide adequate conclusions. Old era players played only one format. Current era players need to play a lot more.

 

On a side note, laughable to see Kapil getting votes as the best fast bowler .I am one of the biggest admirers of him  as any one can ever come across. Infact I rate him   far higher than  what  his 'stats reveal' due to the contexts he played in.To me, he has been 'the

bowler ' who deserves the highest  marks  than what his stats reveal, but yet to place him as the best  is stretching it too far.

 

 

Ambrose is an all-time great no doubt,at his best arguably more explosive than anyone and the most accurate of all paceman.On a broken wicket he was the best of all paceman.However he was not at his best or outstanding on flat,docile track slike Wasim and Marshall or even Andy Roberts and became relatively predicatable.The disconcerting bounce he created from a god length was unplayable but he could not swing a ball like Marshall or Akram and was not as verstaile as  lillee  or Roberts.

You are very unfair to all of them.

Wasim,Waqar and Imran  took the art of reverse swing to heights of the divine.In the all-round sense none was as skilled as Wasim who traversed regions no bowler ever did with a cricket ball.Wasim took the art of pace bowling to another dimension.Imran pioneered reverse swing while Waqar moved a cricket ball at speed nonone ever did.Viv and Lara rate Wasim the best pace bowler they ever faced.

Glen Mcgrath posessed the greatest intelligence by a paceman ever and more control than anyone bar Hadlee.He played a major part in Australia becoming one of the greatest sides the cricket world has ever seen.Troubled Tendulkar more than anyone.

There is no evidence of Hadlee involved in foul play.

Andy Roberts and Malcolm Marshall had a greater repertoire than Curtly,were craftier and quicker.On flat tracks they were far more effective like when they toured India,where Curtly never played tests.REmember Andy's bouncers at 2 different speeds and Marshall's skidding bouncer.

Critical of Lille but when was Ambrose successful in the sub-continent?Lillee was more complete than Ambrose with his leg-cuter,outswinger and bouncer.

 

On 4/3/2019 at 7:29 PM, rtmohanlal said:

 

 

 

[Harsh Thakor]

On 4/3/2019 at 7:29 PM, rtmohanlal said:

for me , it has to be Curtley Amborse ..... belonged to an  at the best 'good' team. Yes.... Walsh,Lara,Chanderpaul and him made the team 'good'. His   record has been mighty impressive in both the formats. In one dayers his econ: is 'out of the world'.Has enough longevity too .So  it has to be him.

 

Omissions and reasons:

Steyn .... despite having great record in both formats, especially  in these comparatively better batting friendly   conditions,  his one day econ: is too  large for  a great bowler.Also, have high doubts  that some times he deliberately chucked. Mentally was not that tough either on crucial occasions(a SAF trait)

 

Mcgrath - belonged to an ATG team in which being 'very good' was the minimal standard of every player.So he could feed off from other great players performances, especially that of another legend Warne's . Warne provided such variety to the team.

 

Donald - faltered when pitted for the 'top spot' vs Aussies

 

FAB 4 of WI - They too complimented each other. Marshall & Roberts were not that greats in one of the formats either.

 

Walsh .... was more of a work horse whose avg:ed  bordered around that 25 mark .Consistancy rather than ' being lethal' was his strength. Also very moderate in one dayers too.

 

Bishop - lack of longevity.Not great  in one dayers either.

 

Hadlee - despite having a great record in both formats & being the lone strike bowler in the team , he too can be suspected a lot of having involved in the evil practice of tampering. His interviews reflects that a lot.

 

Lillee - his records in sub continent are not at all convincing  .

 

Wasim & Waqar - Don't  take the track records of these 2 as such any more for a start, due to tampering. They were quality bowlers despite that , no about.

 

Imran - one who benefitted the most from ball tampering.So can't take his track record as such by even a bit.

 

others are either too young or too old to provide adequate conclusions. Old era players played only one format. Current era players need to play a lot more.

 

On a side note, laughable to see Kapil getting votes as the best fast bowler .I am one of the biggest admirers of him  as any one can ever come across. Infact I rate him   far higher than  what  his 'stats reveal' due to the contexts he played in.To me, he has been 'the

bowler ' who deserves the highest  marks  than what his stats reveal, but yet to place him as the best  is stretching it too far.

 

 

 

 

 

Ambrose is an all-time great no doubt,at his best arguably more explosive than anyone and the most accurate of all paceman.On a broken wicket he was the best of all paceman.However he was not at his best or outstanding on flat,docile track slike Wasim and Marshall or even Andy Roberts and became relatively predicatable.The disconcerting bounce he created from a god length was unplayable but he could not swing a ball like Marshall or Akram and was not as verstaile as  lillee  or Roberts.

You are very unfair to all of them.

Wasim,Waqar and Imran  took the art of reverse swing to heights of the divine.In the all-round sense none was as skilled as Wasim who traversed regions no bowler ever did with a cricket ball.Wasim took the art of pace bowling to another dimension.Imran pioneered reverse swing while Waqar moved a cricket ball at speed nonone ever did.Viv and Lara rate Wasim the best pace bowler they ever faced.

Glen Mcgrath posessed the greatest intelligence by a paceman ever and more control than anyone bar Hadlee.He played a major part in Australia becoming one of the greatest sides the cricket world has ever seen.Troubled Tendulkar more than anyone.

There is no evidence of Hadlee involved in foul play.

Andy Roberts and Malcolm Marshall had a greater repertoire than Curtly,were craftier and quicker.On flat tracks they were far more effective like when they toured India,where Curtly never played tests.REmember Andy's bouncers at 2 different speeds and Marshall's skidding bouncer.

Critical of Lille but when was Ambrose successful in the sub-continent?Lillee was more complete than Ambrose with his leg-cuter,outswinger and bouncer.

[rtmohanlal]

1 hour ago, Harsh Thakor said:

Ambrose is an all-time great no doubt,at his best arguably more explosive than anyone and the most accurate of all paceman.On a broken wicket he was the best of all paceman.However he was not at his best or outstanding on flat,docile track slike Wasim and Marshall or even Andy Roberts and became relatively predicatable.The disconcerting bounce he created from a god length was unplayable but he could not swing a ball like Marshall or Akram and was not as verstaile as  lillee  or Roberts.

You are very unfair to all of them.

Wasim,Waqar and Imran  took the art of reverse swing to heights of the divine.In the all-round sense none was as skilled as Wasim who traversed regions no bowler ever did with a cricket ball.Wasim took the art of pace bowling to another dimension.Imran pioneered reverse swing while Waqar moved a cricket ball at speed nonone ever did.Viv and Lara rate Wasim the best pace bowler they ever faced.

Glen Mcgrath posessed the greatest intelligence by a paceman ever and more control than anyone bar Hadlee.He played a major part in Australia becoming one of the greatest sides the cricket world has ever seen.Troubled Tendulkar more than anyone.

There is no evidence of Hadlee involved in foul play.

Andy Roberts and Malcolm Marshall had a greater repertoire than Curtly,were craftier and quicker.On flat tracks they were far more effective like when they toured India,where Curtly never played tests.REmember Andy's bouncers at 2 different speeds and Marshall's skidding bouncer.

Critical of Lille but when was Ambrose successful in the sub-continent?Lillee was more complete than Ambrose with his leg-cuter,outswinger and bouncer.

Ambrose's worst bowling avg: was in PAK where he avg:ed a mere 25.2 . Though he didn't play in India , his avg: of  22.5 from 6 tests in 'PAK + SL'  proves his supreme ability to perform even in the flat wickets of sub continent.

I have provided enough reasons for all other  conclusions of mine, I suppose.

 

Wasim,Waqar and Imran  took the art of reverse swing to heights of the divine - No ...... all of them especially Imran took the art of reverse swing to depths  of the devil thru intense ball tampering.