'Australia, England scared of India's rise'--Gavaskar

[Desi Cartman]

for all Dalymia Fans 'Dalmiya misappropriated over Rs 2.90 crore'

[Dhondy]

Suraj, you wrote this, directed towards MM:

you do really need help maybe emigrate to Australia and be treated like a scond class southie Indian you will love that life worshipping your white masters

I think that's a pretty derogatory post, firstly in its tone, and secondly, why "Southie", why not just Indian? You are obviously taking a pop at his Southern origins. Listen, we are a fun loving lot here, and don't mind scraps, but stereotyping of any sort is strictly a no-no. I'd understand if MM called you similar stuff, as it takes two to tango, but he has been as gentlemanly as ever, and did no such thing. I'd urge you to follow his lead. I'm just letting you know- you come across as a pretty aggressive and abrasive poster. While we value your custom and don't want to lose you, if it puts off people like Sriram from posting here, I know who I'd choose. So, yes, you don't need my approval, but you need to follow the same rules that others do, to stop this place from degenerating into xenophobic, parochial slangfest.

[f.b.m]

By "Southie", I think he meant higher salaries so I'm sure MM wont mind C:

[suraj]

Suraj, you wrote this, directed towards MM: I think that's a pretty derogatory post, firstly in its tone, and secondly, why "Southie", why not just Indian? You are obviously taking a pop at his Southern origins. Listen, we are a fun loving lot here, and don't mind scraps, but stereotyping of any sort is strictly a no-no. I'd understand if MM called you similar stuff, as it takes two to tango, but he has been as gentlemanly as ever, and did no such thing. I'd urge you to follow his lead. I'm just letting you know- you come across as a pretty aggressive and abrasive poster. While we value your custom and don't want to lose you, if it puts off people like Sriram from posting here, I know who I'd choose. So, yes, you don't need my approval, but you need to follow the same rules that others do, to stop this place from degenerating into xenophobic, parochial slangfest.

Dhondy When I have some more time I will explain that the "southie" word was not used in a derogatory manner or taking a pop at MM's origins; in fact I don't even use stereotypes like Aussie convicts etc if you go over my posts And if you are threatening about getting me out of the forum- I don't give 2 hoots about that; I have bigger achievements in life than trying to confirm to the mentality of some ppl on an online forum

[Dhondy]

And if you are threatening about getting me out of the forum- I don't give 2 hoots about that; I have bigger achievements in life than trying to confirm to the mentality of some ppl on an online forum

Don't take this as some kind of ego clash, Suraj. If I came to your house, your website or your party, you'd expect me to follow a certain etiquette, wouldn't you? A reasonable code of conduct that you feel is appropriate? I am simply asking you to do the same. Of course, you don't care if you are banned- it's just a cricket website, for goodness sake! But we'd like you to carry on and enjoy yourself, as long as you don't breach that unwritten etiquette. As for what you meant, I can't judge that for obvious reasons because I don't know you, so I can only go by what you wrote.

[The Outsider]

By the same standards, Sachin is a cheat, for he was caught on LIVE TV tampering with the ball...same with Dravid and we all know about Azhar, Mongia, Prabhakar,etc. and the fact that they were absolute cheats...sorry, but i think India fans should show a bit of moderation accusing other teams of being cheats when their own record with cheating is so spotty.. It is also well known that the mecca of matchfixing is India and Dubai.....

Tendulkar was cleared of the accusation, Dravid and all other players mentioned in your post were punished in one way or the other. What has Lee got for repeatedly bowling beamers and why does only one ball "slip" from his hand in a match? Is it because bowling it the second time will disbar him from bowling further in the match? What punishment have Clarke, Symonds, Ponting got for repeatedly claiming grassed catches? What punishment did Symonds get for calling Harbhajan a homosexual and instigating a war of words?

Oh and lastly, Gavaskar has a massive chip on his shoulder regarding white nations, simply due to the fact that he sucked against white nations- his record against England is mediocre, his record against NZ is mediocre and he only dominated Australia when they fielded their third class bowling attack lacking Lillee-Thommo and/or a an over-the-hill 80-85mph Thommo only. It is also noted in several biographies/autobiographies that Gavaskar isn't really rated as highly as Boycott/Barry Richards, because not only did he chicken out of playing county cricket for most of his career or WSC, he never really dominated an awesome pace attack except against the west Indies in one series in India in 1983/84 i believe.

This is a laughable theory. Now we have how someone did against "white" nations theory. Chicken out of playing in county cricket? WSC? Please give me a break.

[cochise]

I say...CC has got some funky theories from left field man...I recall a "white man - vampire" theory of sorts sometime back...whatever you think of his theories, you have to give it to the man...he is certainly creative.

[The Outsider]

Avi, you are over reacting here. If there are some people who are PC then there are also others who give resounding rebuttal to the PC ones. There is an incredible mix of people here and PCness is certainly not a forum policy.

[suraj]

Don't take this as some kind of ego clash, Suraj. If I came to your house, your website or your party, you'd expect me to follow a certain etiquette, wouldn't you? A reasonable code of conduct that you feel is appropriate? I am simply asking you to do the same. Of course, you don't care if you are banned- it's just a cricket website, for goodness sake! But we'd like you to carry on and enjoy yourself, as long as you don't breach that unwritten etiquette. As for what you meant, I can't judge that for obvious reasons because I don't know you, so I can only go by what you wrote.

Dhondy, The only reason the word southie appeared in the post was because I was reading the thread and MM's post at the same time http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=366162&postcount=5 And the only reason I decided to take on MM was because of his attack one SMG's credentials and history vs what he was saying in this article of his. While your concerns about stereotyping are understandable, I don't think your bias towards one member vs the other as a mod/admin can be appreciated- if MM is such a good debator he can surely fight his own battles and if someone is going to be a contrarion but then threaten to stop posting because other members refute the points then that is not the problem of other members. There are no ego clashes here and if you notice my posts- although aggressive are targeted towards the content of the individual posts rather than the poster himself for example I might totally agree & even compliment MM on another thread based on a post. The whole "ignore me" approach on an online forum is sissy and pansie & I refuse to follow it.

[Ram]

Avi' date=' you are over reacting here. If there are some people who are PC then there are also others who give resounding rebuttal to the PC ones. There is an incredible mix of people here and PCness is certainly not a forum policy.[/quote'] First of all, I take strong exception to someone branding me 'PC', coz I am anything but. Asking someone ( and lets avoid names ) to NOT be racist, NOT brand an entire country and its people with unpleasant objectives and stereotyping them with all sorts of negative attributes is not being 'PC', its being fair, open-minded with an objective point of view. Yea, I have taken objection to various people and their posts in the past, but if someone can point me out to a SINGLE post of mine, where I have been wrong and blindly supported one group just because I wanted to be ' Politically correct' , then I shall readily accept I am wrong. The fact of the matter is, there are umpteen posts on this very same board where I have openly criticized various acts by Australians ( like Michael Clarke and his bump ball acts), but people conveniently decide to ignore that and brand me 'PC' just I am against branding an entire group of people as something based on a few individuals. My only problem is, I take a message board and my activities in it waaaaay too seriously. I come across stereotyping and discrimination based on it, everyday, both in my real life and in this MB. And being a brown guy myself and that fact my own people have been subject to discrimination and mocking based on a thing as trivial as a skin color in the past, I try to stay away from such tendencies as much as I can. I have never been subject to discrimination based on color or class myself, but I understand how painful it can be, which is exactly the reason I dont want me, or for that matter, anyone I know, to succumb to such tendencies. The only difference is that, in my actual real life, I dont tend to voice my opinion so strongly coz I have seen that if I am frank and truthful ( which is actually a good thing ) people dont like it. Maybe, just maybe, the anonymity of a message board gives me the message board gives me the license to bit a more bit more liberal in voicing what i think about people and their opinions. From now on, I shall stop doing that too and do what I do in real life, which is to stay silent and laugh withing myself. If anyone chooses to be Ignorant and racist, its their problem and I pity them. As far as Anakin and me goes, we have a history of confrontation between us, esp with reg. his comments on Australians. I suppose things crossed a tipping point last night. I certainly dont want to be the reason why one of the senior members of board leaves it. But one thing I can confidently say, vis-a-vis this thread, is that even at the heights of the heated discussion, I didnt get personal or insulting. At the most, I can be cuttingly sarcastic or mocking and thats as far as I will ever go. Ana, If you are reading this, and I am sure will, at some point of time, I hope you come back. There's nothing personal between the two of us, atleast on my side. And finally ( and I know this is getting a bit boring), Suraj has been on my 'case' for a while now. Leave alone his reaction to my comments SMG, he has been making provocative posts directed at me for quite a while now, which I have, as usual, chosen to ignore, for the most part. But his post on me being South Indian and what followed that is possibly the most shocking evidence of an Indian mocking at another fellow Indian based on his place of birth. He has tried to work his way around those comments by offering various convoluted explanations that quite frankly, dont make much sense at all. But, I leave it to everyone's judgment to infer whatever you want to from that post. Atleast, Doc certainly thought it was way out of place.

[suraj]

@ MM I have not been on your case- if you are talking about being sarcastic I have done the same to others too like CC, fineleg etc based on some of the posts I had told you this before that I don't respond to the poster but rather the posts so don't know why you get offended- as for the southie comment I simply fail to understand why you won't accept the explanation My comment was clearly about being treated as second class by Aussies- how would being a South Indian or North Indian matter to them???- it would have been simpler to just say Indian instead of southie Indian as Dhondy pointed out but I stand by my reason of why that came about without the intention of trying to be derogatory. The thread should be split so Gavaskar's article can be discussed

[silv3rado]

Sunny is really saying what is in his heart straight up. He has been throwing some knockout punches for a while now.

[The Outsider]

First of all, I take strong exception to someone branding me 'PC', coz I am anything but. Asking someone ( and lets avoid names ) to NOT be racist, NOT brand an entire country and its people with unpleasant objectives and stereotyping them with all sorts of negative attributes is not being 'PC', its being fair, open-minded with an objective point of view.

Okay, before I get involved in this Iraq war, let me say in my comment I meant PC as Avi would perceive it. I have not given my list of PC/non PC people............yet.:D

[Lurker]

This smacks of reverse-racism by Sunny. How can he keep making such statements and still be on the ICC payroll? Isnt that a conflict of interest? I remember how he had suggested Mike Procter was a racist and then was suitably chided by ICC bigwigs and went belly up on his statement, so what has changed now?? He seems to be a loose canon inside ICC. If he wants to make such statements he should resign and then utter whatever he wants to.

[King Tendulkar]

Okay' date=' before I get involved in this Iraq war, let me say in my comment I meant PC as Avi would perceive it. I have not given my list of PC/non PC people............yet.:D[/quote'] When will we see the list?:D

[Chandan]

Apart from a few things here and there, Gavaskar is absolutely spot on in judging the westen media. And what do we know about his ICC job? Is he paid for that? If not, apart from doing his duty which is chairing the technical committee, he can take on anyone he thinks is wrong as a media person himself, for which he is hansomely paid. BTW, can anyone point out what they find wrong in the present column of Gavaskar?

[Lurker]

And what do we know about his ICC job? Is he paid for that? If not, apart from doing his duty which is chairing the technical committee, he can take on anyone he thinks is wrong as a media person himself, for which he is hansomely paid. BTW, can anyone point out what they find wrong in the present column of Gavaskar?

That is a rather strange argument there. So Sunil Gavaskar should keep shut if he is paid, and he should be allow to utter garbage(or wisdom be as it may) if he is not?? In other words his ability to speak should be inversly propotional to the money he makes off ICC?? I hope you see the fallacy of your argument there. As for his comments on this whole "Dinosaur" issue, isnt he just repeating himself again and again?? What is new in his diatribe? That the Aussies/English associations had veto-power?? When was that last used?? Frankly what is sensical about this article at all?? xxx

[King Tendulkar]

Sunny is talking sense. He keeps repeating it, as someone has to stick up for the brownies. ICC are to##ers and need sunny so there is change. An example of this is bias umpiring which cost us test series in oz and the fact india has no umpires on this so called elite panel. Without people like sunny the status quo will remain

[suraj]

Apart from a few things here and there, Gavaskar is absolutely spot on in judging the westen media. And what do we know about his ICC job? Is he paid for that? If not, apart from doing his duty which is chairing the technical committee, he can take on anyone he thinks is wrong as a media person himself, for which he is hansomely paid. BTW, can anyone point out what they find wrong in the present column of Gavaskar?

Exactly my point Chandan!!! This is what Gavaskar says: "As soon as Mr Bindra’s name was announced,there were a flurry of articles in England and Australia that giving him the job would put too much power in India’s hands, as Mr Pawar was going to be President of the ICC in 2010. The ICC CEO was to be given a three-year contract, which could be renewed of course, but it was only in the final year of his contract that there could have been two Indians at the helm of the ICC. Those worried of the prospect of India’s hegemony were conveniently forgetting that only a few years back, there were two Australians at the top of the ICC. Malcolm Gray as President and Malcolm Speed as the CEO, but there were no fears about Australia ruling the game then. Why is it that these writers have no qualms about similar situations when it concerns their own countrymen, but are quick to raise a hue and cry when it is from India or the sub-continent? " I will not repost the article but SMG criticizes the British and Aussie media heads on. He goes on to question why the double standards & no hue and cry by the media when 2 Aussies were at the helm?? Next thing folks like MM bring in SMG being useless, his history blah blah blah!!! For an educated poster that MM is as proclaimed by some I don't see the link here. Then folks like Lurker criticize SMG for reverse racism. Have MM & Lurker read British and Aussie papers to even understand what SMG is talking about here?? Do they even know that SMG has booked a room at Lords for the celebration of teh silver jubilee of Indian WC win? Conflict of interest???- SMG is serving in ICC and criticising the British and Aussie media; since when does holding office in ICC mean you cannot talk against the British and Aussie media; last I checked there are cricket boards that are members of ICC and that too more than English and Aussie ones. SMG is rightly pointing out to the stupid media there to get over the fact that "good old colonial times" are over- and for stating this fact the "Mr fair and balanced" MM ripped him apart. I am sorry but I accuse MM of reverse bias against SMG now.

[King Tendulkar]

Are some posters like cc, lurker and mm saying that there were no colonial times? That this superior attitude did not manifest itself in the running of the ICC?