Is Gill a bit like Barry Richards?

[AKane]

8 hours ago, zen said:

That is your take on evaluating players ... On the other hand, Heath Streak played almost everywhere. That does not make him better than someone who played at fewer places than him ... At the end of the day, it is the absolute quality of a bowler that matters more than anything else. 

 

Bringing Heath Streak into the equation is not making Lillee better.

 

Most other greats  played all/most  places like Roberts, Marshall, Botham, Kapil, Hadlee, Imran, Wasim.  Lillee is among the exceptions.

 

Now not playing much in 1 place is okay but playing largely in only Aus/NZ/Eng is .....

 

Lillee is one who played in home and home like conditions "only". Cannot be compared with list above.Then retiring just before a tour to WI by Aus in 83/84 - at least play one full series in WI in 80s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zen]

18 minutes ago, AKane said:

 

Bringing Heath Streak into the equation is not making Lillee better.

 

Most other greats  played all/most  places like Roberts, Marshall, Botham, Kapil, Hadlee, Imran, Wasim.  Lillee is among the exceptions.

 

Now not playing much in 1 place is okay but playing largely in only Aus/NZ/Eng is .....

 

Lillee is one who played in home and home like conditions "only". Cannot be compared with list above.Then retiring just before a tour to WI by Aus in 83/84 - at least play one full series in WI in 80s.

 

My main point was about Barry playing Lillee in WTC. 
 

I don’t think if Kapil or Botham or Heath Streak can be rated as top tier bowlers, considering their entire careers, not matter how much or where they played. 
 

Edited March 24, 2023 by zen

[AKane]

4 minutes ago, zen said:

My main point was about Barry playing Lillee in WTC. 
 

I am not sure if Kapil or Botham or Heath Streak can be rated as top tier bowlers, considering their entire careers, not matter how much or where they played. 
 

 

Ok - but Roberts, Marshall, Hadlee, Imran, Wasim, Donald  etc can. Unlike Lillee.

Edited March 24, 2023 by AKane

[zen]

5 minutes ago, AKane said:

 

Ok - but Roberts, Marshall, Hadlee, Imran, Wasim, Donald  etc can. Unlike Lillee.

Yeah and Lillee is a top quality bowler too (it is a different discussion if I would pick him over a Marshall for e.g.). Has inspired many fast bowlers including Hadlee and Imran iirc  … Anyways, many fans have a player or two (if not more), they don’t prefer. Lillee appears to be yours!

Edited March 24, 2023 by zen

[AKane]

22 minutes ago, zen said:

Yeah and Lillee is a top quality bowler too (it is a different discussion if I would pick him over a Marshall for e.g.). Has inspired many fast bowlers including Hadlee and Imran iirc  … Anyways, many fans have a player or two (if not more), they don’t prefer. Lillee appears to be yours!

Lillee is top in certain conditions - unproven in others. Like our match winning spinners.

 

Some don't like doctored wickets at home to suit the favored spinners who do nothing outside their home to win India matches. Some don't take those spinners seriously. Similarly some don't take someone seriously who does not perform or even try to perform in adverse conditions. Some may accept/like this kind of stuff - but as you said different strokes for different folks.

Edited March 24, 2023 by AKane

[zen]

1 hour ago, AKane said:

Lillee is top in certain conditions - unproven in others. Like our match winning spinners.

 

Some don't like doctored wickets at home to suit the favored spinners who do nothing outside their home to win India matches. Some don't take those spinners seriously. Similarly some don't take someone seriously who does not perform or even try to perform in adverse conditions. Some may accept/like this kind of stuff - but as you said different strokes for different folks.

 

Sure, whatever works for you ... but note that difficult to compare doctored pitches (prepared by leaving the pitches unprepared and/or selective preparation, and where bowlers can rely on the pitch to do the hard work for them) in more or less one key country (not a key one in Lillee's time though) with by and large common conditions in SA, Eng, and NZ, along with Aus where people like to watch test matches. ... Swing is about moving the ball in the air! In general, if a bowler is doing well in Aus, Eng, NZ, & SA, that is 4 key countries, that is good (There was no SA in Lillee's time but it would have been fun to watch him bowl there)!  

Edited March 24, 2023 by zen