Ganguly-Warne spat

[Guest HariSampath]

Drugs and match fixing relating to the sports isn't enough for you? On field incidents are countless. His debate with the on field umpires and the amount of pressure he used to put on umpires was enormous so much so that a percentage of his wickets should be attributed to over appealing. Just like you do we all have respect for Warne's abilities as a cricketer but we aren't blind enough not to take note of his slip during his playing days.

Tell me how many times any cricket authority has held Warne guilty of match fixing. He had accepted something about bookies offering him money for team/pitch info. That way ALL cricketers in India including Tendulkar, Ganguly, Dravid, Kumble etc have played for YEARS in many games that were fixed, and are you telling me that NONE of them knew anything anout it till it broke in 2000 ? NONSENSE. These cricketers have been passively abetting the fixed games, whether or not it can be proven they took money or not. Matchfixing had been on since 1994 till 2000 and not even ONCE these players, regulars in the dressing room for every match had spoken about it. No one is that naive to believe that only 2 cricketers , Azhar and Jadeja were guilty and none of the others even had a vague idea for 6 years.. Indian team ( seniors of today) have been in the epicenter of matchfixing...even Sachin's father in law had been shown on record to be very close to a famous bookie who was chargesheeted by the CBI. This bookie was also seen being very active during Sachin's wedding etc. Many would say this is far more serious issue than Warne and Mark Waugh providing pitch info, and later accepting it openly too. Please provide incidents of Warne being hauled up for on field behaviors and also how many times his conduct has been reprimanded by ICC. Like I said, the only thing is the WC where he took some substance.

[King]

^ That isn't the point. Had Warne claimed that he has upheld the spirit every time he has played' date=' may be that is debatable. But his claim was gangully didn't play according to the spirit of the game on that occasion. Whether Warne has himself breached the spirit of the game is the past is immaterial.[/quote'] That is why I called him a hypocrite. I never said what Ganguly did was right. Knowing the attention craving Warne I was commenting on his ironic statement about Ganguly's lack of spirit. All you need to do is see how often Warne has gone sour over Murali overtaking him in wickets tally. There are so many holes in his resume he has no right to comment on one's lack of spirit in such glowing words. Simply put Warne is a attention craving individual. Just because he is a legend of the game he gets away with it. If the same statement was made by say Akthar folks would have torn Akthar down.

[IndianRenegade]

What was more distressing is Ganguly, when asked whether he would talk to warne to iron out the differences, said he has got better things to do. These are very disappointing considering it comes from a person who has captained the Indian cricket team for long!

[IndianRenegade]

That is why I called him a hypocrite. I never said what Ganguly did was right. Knowing the attention craving Warne I was commenting on his ironic statement about Ganguly's lack of spirit. All you need to do is see how often Warne has gone sour over Murali overtaking him in wickets tally. There are so many holes in his resume he has no right to comment on one's lack of spirit in such glowing words. Simply put Warne is a attention craving individual. Just because he is a legend of the game he gets away with it. If the same statement was made by say Akthar folks would have torn Akthar down.

Hypocrite - yes! but how does that remove his right to claim some one has breached the spirit of the game?

[King]

Tell me how many times any cricket authority has held Warne guilty of match fixing. He had accepted something about bookies offering him money for team/pitch info. That way ALL cricketers in India including Tendulkar, Ganguly, Dravid, Kumble etc have played for YEARS in many games that were fixed, and are you telling me that NONE of them knew anything anout it till it broke in 2000 ? NONSENSE. These cricketers have been passively abetting the fixed games, whether or not it can be proven they took money or not. Matchfixing had been on since 1994 till 2000 and not even ONCE these players, regulars in the dressing room for every match had spoken about it. No one is that naive to believe that only 2 cricketers , Azhar and Jadeja were guilty and none of the others even had a vague idea for 6 years.. Indian team ( seniors of today) have been in the epicenter of matchfixing...even Sachin's father in law had been shown on record to be very close to a famous bookie who was chargesheeted by the CBI. This bookie was also seen being very active during Sachin's wedding etc. Many would say this is far more serious issue than Warne and Mark Waugh providing pitch info, and later accepting it openly too. Please provide incidents of Warne being hauled up for on field behaviors and also how many times his conduct has been reprimanded by ICC. Like I said, the only thing is the WC where he took some substance.

You are fighting a futile debate Hari, just let go. You don't even consider a reprimand and a fine that ACB put on Warne as any evidence to his selling of game for some quick bucks. What more evidence do you want? Going by your above logic every South African, every Indian, every Pakistani, every Australian and every possible cricketer that played during the match fixing era is a culprit. Just let go Hari. I'm sorry but you don't make any sense at all. You just don't want to see anything concrete as an evidence. Warne has been fined innumerous times for breaching ICC laws. Warne has even been fined in domestic cricket, county cricket and all forms of cricket he's been involved in. All you need to do is to do a bit of research if you don't know it. All Ganguly did was also breaching the law. The problem with Warne is he's a big drama queen. Unfortunately being a legend of the game masks that side of his cricket.

[Guest HariSampath]

That is why I called him a hypocrite. I never said what Ganguly did was right. Knowing the attention craving Warne I was commenting on his ironic statement about Ganguly's lack of spirit. All you need to do is see how often Warne has gone sour over Murali overtaking him in wickets tally. There are so many holes in his resume he has no right to comment on one's lack of spirit in such glowing words. Simply put Warne is a attention craving individual. Just because he is a legend of the game he gets away with it. If the same statement was made by say Akthar folks would have torn Akthar down.

So you are saying thhat Sunil gavaskar has no right to talk of fast scoring in ODIs because he once played 60 overs for 36 runs. You can also say Farokh Engineer has no right to adjudicate Bhajji as he himself had been involved in assault incidents when playing for India. Chris Broad cannot be a match referee , just check his playing days. ad infinitum...so you will say that any bowler who has been known to over appeal, loses the moral right to appeal or say there was a decision not given ? I think your arguments have no substance....wonder what you would have said about Ganguly and whether he should be banned for dissent had the game been against Chennai or Hyderabad, and there was no Warne commenting.

[swami1984]

The problem with Warne is he's a big drama queen.

naaah...that title is shared by Ganguly and KP (in recent years at least). I thought Ganguly has changed after the good run he's been having, but he's still the same ol' crybaby

[Guest HariSampath]

You are fighting a futile debate Hari' date= just let go. You don't even consider a reprimand and a fine that ACB put on Warne as any evidence to his selling of game for some quick bucks. What more evidence do you want? Going by your above logic every South African, every Indian, every Pakistani, every Australian and every possible cricketer that played during the match fixing era is a culprit. Just let go Hari. I'm sorry but you don't make any sense at all. You just don't want to see anything concrete as an evidence. Warne has been fined innumerous times for breaching ICC laws. Warne has even been fined in domestic cricket, county cricket and all forms of cricket he's been involved in. All you need to do is to do a bit of research if you don't know it. All Ganguly did was also breaching the law. The problem with Warne is he's a big drama queen. Unfortunately being a legend of the game masks that side of his cricket.

You havent even grasped what the debate is Ravi. The issue is very clear "Is Warne correct in saying Ganguly breached the law and hence he had not played in the spirit of the game"...The answer ( even according to you now) is that YES ganguly is guilty of breaching the law as well as the spirit of the law. This is NOT a case of judging Warne's career and the way he played...but JUST a simple issue of is warne correct about saying what he did yesterday. He is. Ganguly is in the wrong, and that has been proved. So, it is you who needs to let go and accept that Ganguly is the guilty party and Warne is absolutely correct. 'nuff said.

[King]

So you are saying thhat Sunil gavaskar has no right to talk of fast scoring in ODIs because he once played 60 overs for 36 runs. You can also say Farokh Engineer has no right to adjudicate Bhajji as he himself had been involved in assault incidents when playing for India. Chris Broad cannot be a match referee , just check his playing days. ad infinitum...so you will say that any bowler who has been known to over appeal, loses the moral right to appeal or say there was a decision not given ? I think your arguments have no substance....wonder what you would have said about Ganguly and whether he should be banned for dissent had the game been against Chennai or Hyderabad, and there was no Warne commenting.

Oh well you first exonerated Warne of any wrong doings and mentioned there is a chance every cricketer must be involved in match fixing because they played in match fixing era. You don't see or sense the context of Warne's comments on Ganguly do you? Spirit of cricket, my foot. Warne has often taken the sport for a ride. Your comments are very strange to be honest. You are happy to exonerate Warne of all his wrong doings in the past but you cannot excuse Ganguly? Strange logic that. Warne is well known for targeting players that he doesn't warm up to. What Warne's doing now is just mere drama and nothing more. If he had problems he would have sorted it out with the referee and not going around having a go at someone in the media. Warne just uses the media well enough to blow his horn and that is bottom line.

[swami1984]

That is why I called him a hypocrite. I never said what Ganguly did was right

"Ganguly is right, Warne talking about spirit of the game is a joke." Ravi, this is what you said in another thread....make your mind up - is Dada right or not?!

[IndianRenegade]

Simple question, I killed someone.... now some one close to me has been killed. Do I loose the right point out the murder?

[King]

"Ganguly is right, Warne talking about spirit of the game is a joke." Ravi, this is what you said in another thread....make your mind up - is Dada right or not?!

Read again and please comprehend. "Ganguly is right, Warne talking about spirit of the game is a joke." What does that sound to you? Ganguly is right, Warne talking about spirit of the game is a joke indeed. Ganguly is surely right for calling it a joke Warne criticizing him for breaching of spirit of cricket.

[King]

Simple question' date=' I killed someone.... now some one close to me has been killed. Do I loose the right point out the murder?[/quote'] "Spirit of cricket" to murder :haha: Haven't you heard of "Pot calling the kettle black?"? Never mind you folks can adore Warne for pointing out the shortcomings in Ganguly. I'll continue to be amazed at the frequency of which Warne snatches headlines having a go at a fellow cricketer.

[Guest HariSampath]

^ Ravi...forget "spirit of cricket".....first try to understand the LAWS of cricket. Less than 1 % of cricketers in the world play according to the spirit of the game, Tendulkar included if we consider that walking after edging is in "spirit of cricket". We are discussing about ganguly breaching the laws...which categorically saw NO PLAYER can ask for a 3rd umpire replay after being given out by field umpire(s)...which is what Ganguly did, and which you have failed to address in any single post. Why are trying to exonerate Ganguly for breaching game rules, by bringing in Warnes earlier transgressions ? Address these points. 1, Smith claimed a catch, and umpire checked with Rudi who confirmed catch was taken clean. 2. ganguly says catch was not taken cleanly and asks straight umpire to refer to 3rd ump. 3. 3rd umpire goofs up in a BIG way, as everyone can see catch was taken clean, but he rules notout. we can conclude the minumum as follows. 1. Smith was perfectly justified in claiming a catch as we all saw on tv, Ganguly was certainly out. 2.Ganguly had breached the "law" itself, and later although the 3rd umpire ruled notout, we all now know it was out. So Ganguly is as gulty as sin, should be banned. 3. It follows that what what Warne and Smith said about this incident is absolutely correct. 4. It also follows that you are absolutely wrong.

[King]

The difference is you are discussing the breach of laws but I am discussing the topic " Warne shouldn't talk about the spirit of cricket - Ganguly". Ganguly is well within his rights to point out the "no saintly" Warne. I agree with Ganguly a constant offender like Warne calling Ganguly for breaching of spirit in the media is a joke indeed. The topic title is not about whether Ganguly is right or not but is about " Warne shouldn't talk about the spirit of cricket - Ganguly".

[Sachinism]

there seems to be too much fuss over so little i dont see really what the big deal is if ganguly asked one of the umpires if the catch was taken cleanly its possible the fielder could have taken the catch not knowing the ball had touched the ground

[Guest HariSampath]

^...that is the ONLY BIG deal....because the laws say once field umpires have given a decision, any more word(s) or actions like even lingering is breach of ICC laws, and is a punishable offence. This is exactly what Ganguly did, and Warne and smith pointed out

[Guest HariSampath]

The difference is you are discussing the breach of laws but I am discussing the topic " Warne shouldn't talk about the spirit of cricket - Ganguly". Ganguly is well within his rights to point out the "no saintly" Warne. I agree with Ganguly a constant offender like Warne calling Ganguly for breaching of spirit in the media is a joke indeed. The topic title is not about whether Ganguly is right or not but is about " Warne shouldn't talk about the spirit of cricket - Ganguly".

so you are saying that ganguly after being given out and showing dissent according to ICC laws, is indeed within the spirit of cricket ? Looks like we ned to redefine the pot and the kettle here.

[King]

^...that is the ONLY BIG deal....because the laws say once field umpires have given a decision' date=' any more word(s) or actions like even lingering is breach of ICC laws, and is a punishable offence. This is exactly what Ganguly did, and Warne and smith pointed out[/quote'] Is Warne the match referee? Why is he speaking in the media about this and having a go at Ganguly? Obviously Warne has his job description mixed up. It is not for him to decide Ganguly breached the spirit of the game or not, it is match referee's. Similarly it was not Yuvraj Singh's decision to ban Bhajji but was match referee's. If the players start commenting and take stands there will be no end to it.

[IndianRenegade]

"Spirit of cricket" to murder :haha:

whats there to laugh? "Breaking the Spirit of cricket" ---> Sin "committing a murder" ---> Sin may be one is a greater in magnitude and the other is lesser. So what you are saying is, If it deals with a greater sin I some have have the right to accuse others. If not I don't?

Haven't you heard of "Pot calling the kettle black?"?

Logic serves me better than adages.

Never mind you folks can adore Warne for pointing out the shortcomings in Ganguly. I'll continue to be amazed at the frequency of which Warne snatches headlines having a go at a fellow cricketer.

Wow! which part of my reply, made you think I adore Warne? [i do adore him as a great spinner... other than that their is nothing to adore...]