Bush blames India for high food prices

[gopsy]

is there anything more stupid i've heard in recent times, nope!!!!, even politicians here in India fare better in this regard. And he's got support from his Secretary of State condolleza rice . Stupid politicians for stupid masses. It's the same every where. What if it's the GREAT USA or the poor illiterate India . http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Rising-food-prices-After-Rice-Bush-blames-India/304902/

[Lurker]

There is a certain element of truth in what Bush is saying. Indian progress has come at a cost, that to India and for the rest of the world. Just because US/West has been raping the planet Earth doesnt mean India/China should do it too. Both Energy(specifically fuel) and Foodcrop rising cost can be attributed partially to the competition that surging economies are doing. Earlier there were 10 countries competing for top crops, today there is 10+2(if not more), of course the price will go up. It is simple matter of economics.

[graphic23]

Lurker, while I agree with what you said with regards to the energy, I got the feeling that Bush was indirectly blaming the prospering Indian middle class for the food crisis - almost as if it had been better when India's middle class was poorer. For that reason, I don't agree with what Bush said - it is an idiotic statement to make.

[Ram]

He didnt *blame* the Indian middle-class for it, he merely pointed it out as a reason for growing food prices. If someone asks why the steel prices are so high, everyone is gonna point their fingers at China. Its the same with India, its middle class and rising food prices. Having said that, whether Bush is logically right in saying what he did, I am not so sure. Its not like the middle-class popped up from nowhere overnight or 350 million suddenly decided to eat better, more nutritious food. There's a huge link of reasons thats causing the sudden increase in global food prices. Indian middle class is just one of 'em.

[CC1981]

India is a big contributer to the rising food-prices and we *MUST* not only accept that, but we must try to counter it. India's middle class has been prospering but the middle class itself has been growing (ie, more people today are middle class- % of society AND in sheer numbers than 10 yrs ago for eg) and a lot of that has been due to India's indiscriminate breeding and exploding population. Indian society,Indian government and most Indians themselves do not appreciate the gravity of the situation- while most will accept it is a 'problem', most show a remarkable lack of understanding to appreciate HOW SERIOUS this problem is- at this rate, we will NEVER be a developed country, because we are already struggling to feed and clothe our population- how is the society going to get more educated, affluent and strong, when we produce twice the number of people every year than what we can feed,clothe and uplift from poverty ?? Its a pretty losing equation- so what if your economy is growing at 8%- if you can lift 2 million people out of poverty each year when you are making 10 million people every year- for your society, the 'math' does not add up! And i don't think India realizes the extreme danger this sort of indiscriminate growth throws up- with the overall health of the society improving very slowly (due to us making more babies than the # of people we lift out of poverty), the poverty, disease and congestion remains very visible in the society. However, add a booming economy to that and you just improved the rate of overall improvement marginally but you create dozens of super-rich billionaires. Eventually, this will create a sizeable 'elite class' of super-rich people and that is already happening. When that elite class is surrounded by poverty and a slowly improving overall society, you have THE MOST FERTILE ground for revolutionary spark. With a terrorism exporter sitting next door and the current Mecca of proleteriat communism sitting oh the other side, it is almost a CERTAIN GARANTEE of populist rebellion and marxist extremism- and THAT TOO is already happening! We *MUST* wake up and realize the part we play-our society plays- in creation of these terrorist,revolutionary elements due to the inherent shortcomming of our society (where human population is already super-saturated and keeps growing at a rate faster than we can cure poverty), instead of over-inflating the extent of 'foreign elements' supporting these causes. Overall, India is pretty fooked if it doesnt bring its population down by a few hundred million,nevermind just stop growing at an insane rate!

[Lurker]

I got the feeling that Bush was indirectly blaming the prospering Indian middle class for the food crisis - almost as if it had been better when India's middle class was poorer.

Well Graphic, thats the personality of Bush. His reputation precedes him. If the same statement was made by Bill Clinton I am pretty sure many of us would not have had the same kind of angst.

Having said that, whether Bush is logically right in saying what he did, I am not so sure. Its not like the middle-class popped up from nowhere overnight or 350 million suddenly decided to eat better, more nutritious food.

In India prosperity is directly related to food consumed. It is part of our culture, quite unlike most other cultures really. Think it like this. In 80s, maybe even today, the less prosperous family in India would think of getting almonds, cashews(dry fruits) as a sign of prosperity. It was expcted for every kid to have a glass of milk but if someone brought a few almonds to school, even a couple, that mean he was doing well-off. It is quite different than say USA where people dont really care much, or maybe they do I am just not sure. Point being in India prosperity directly corelates to food. And since Indians have been doing rather well in past decade or so it has in turn ensured that the demand for foods, specially those that were hithreto not used so much has now gone off the roof.

And i don't think India realizes the extreme danger this sort of indiscriminate growth throws up- with the overall health of the society improving very slowly (due to us making more babies than the # of people we lift out of poverty), the poverty, disease and congestion remains very visible in the society.

India's problem is not only population and poverty. Both of them are quite fair arguments but as any other country the real issue lies with the population. Indian middle class has bought heavily into American dream. Almost to the point where an Indian today is more American than Indian. There has always been a trend in India that the richer a family gets the further it tries to move away from common/vernacular Indians, case in point being the sheer love for English(over local lingo) for most upper middle class people. Ideally what would have been best was if Indians retained their Indian social culture while adopted Western hardworking-based-on-merit culture. Instead what has happened is we have bought into McDonalds/Pizza Hut socio-economic atitude but when it comes to work we still go with I-am-a-Gujju-I-will-pick-a-Gujju-first. Double whammy both ways. Essentially this has created pockets of riches amongst big strata of poverty. An example shall suffice. India has bought so heavily into American style of thinking that today in any modern Indian city, specially Delhi/NOIDA/Gurgaon etc, people BUY drinking water. You have vendors selling water door to door and it is part of Indian family routine to have a big container of water delivered to their door..just like milk was done a decade back.

[PaiN_KiLLeR]

Bush has got his stats wrong Between ’03-’07, Grain Intake Rose In US, But Was Static In India The average American eats 5 times more than average Indian. In 2003, US per capita grain consumption was 946 kg a year which had increased to 1,046 kg last year. By way of comparison, India’s per capita grain consumption had remained static over the same period Full article - http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Daily/skins/TOI/navigator.asp?Daily=TOIM&login=default

[gopsy]

i dont think India's begging for food from any other country, we are fairly self sufficient since the green revolution and it's quite well known, neither is it the country with the most number of obese people, that honour goes to the Great United States of America . take a look at this for the fattest countries in the world USA Stands tall at No.9 position. http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/2007/02/07/worlds-fattest-countries-forbeslife-cx_ls_0208worldfat_2.html Damn that Bush you guys eat 5 times more than us and blame us with population theories, India's only strength is her human resource and she feeds her children without being dependant on any one else, what the fack is your problem with that. MYB . And "cc1981" what's all that disaster theory you are rolling out for India , calm down , we can take care of ourselves .

[CC1981]

And "cc1981" what's all that disaster theory you are rolling out for India , calm down , we can take care of ourselves .

Riiiight....sure 'we' can....which is why India is where it is today...a total cesspool...

[CC1981]

neither is it the country with the most number of obese people, that honour goes to the Great United States of America .

Indians are just as fat as Americans...just that Americans have much bigger frames/bone-structure on average so their 'fat guys' are a helluva lot bigger....but India is one of the fattest and one of the most unfit nations on this planet.

[gopsy]

Riiiight....sure 'we' can....which is why India is where it is today...a total cesspool...

a total cesspool would mean a nation without a future, and am sorry, i cant agree with that statement , neither can any self respecting Indian . I shall gladly see how best i can take the burdens of my Motherland, Ofcourse cant expect these from RICH NRI'S AND PERSONS OF INDIAN ORIGIN .

Indians are just as fat as Americans...just that Americans have much bigger frames/bone-structure on average so their 'fat guys' are a helluva lot bigger....but India is one of the fattest and one of the most unfit nations on this planet.

What do you think ?!?! am gonna waste my time, arguing about "frames/bone-structure on averagee"

[CC1981]

a total cesspool would mean a nation without a future, and am sorry, i cant agree with that statement , neither can any self respecting Indian . I shall gladly see how best i can take the burdens of my Motherland, Ofcourse cant expect these from RICH NRI'S AND PERSONS OF INDIAN ORIGIN .

Riiight...out comes the patriotism card....so you are a patriotic Indian and to you, India is 'just fine' and will do just fine, just because of your inherent beleif in India's 'greatness' and trust that it will be fine due to some sort of providence....I've heard that argument before and that type of argument does nothing except keep stroking your pride and ego at the cost of preservationist thinking. i find it ironic that YOU claim to be a patriotic Indian and accuse me of being a self-serving rich NRI, yet **I** am the person worrying over India's future and its problems while you are nonchalantly dismissing all worries and proclaiming India is 'just fine and will be fine'....i wonder, if one is to go by ACTION and not just WORDS, who would come across as more patriotic...you or me....and the irony of it all is that i don't give one damn about silly concepts like patriotism. Whether you like to deal with the fact that India is a cesspool, just marginally better than sub-saharan Africa in human development, societerial responsibility and ethics and lagging behind just about EVERYONE on this planet, is not my problem.

What do you think ?!?! am gonna waste my time, arguing about "frames/bone-structure on averagee"

What i think is that you are an ignorant fool. Read here and find out why and keep up the chest-thumping one-eyed dotishness that has come to signify most Indians today and the lack of intellectual development INSIDE of India about Indian issues. :haha:

[Lurker]

i dont think India's begging for food from any other country, we are fairly self sufficient since the green revolution and it's quite well known, neither is it the country with the most number of obese people, that honour goes to the Great United States of America .

Easy there. Or you may quickly start coming across as a nutcase. Where, for example, does George Bush suggest India is "begging" for food? That is YOUR spin on the subject. If anything George Bush is saying that growing economies, India and China, are affecting the world market. Whats so wrong about that? Clearly that is the case. And it is not only Bush. Every other TV channel, from MSNBC to CNN, keeps uttering that phrase every hour these days - Growing economies India and China and their impact on the world. As for obesity etc, how is that relevant to issue here?? Are you suggesting price of foodgrains is going up because Americans eat so much?? If thats your argument then you need to learn more about obesity. Americans are getting fat NOT because they eat foodgrains, like rice and wheat, but because they eat processed food like ice-cream, pizza, cheese etc etc. Where did you see Bush complain about that(pizza, ice-cream etc)? xxx

[gopsy]

Riiight...out comes the patriotism card....so you are a patriotic Indian and to you' date=' India is 'just fine' and will do just fine, just because of your inherent beleif in India's 'greatness' and trust that it will be fine due to some sort of providence....[/quote'] Where did i say India's just fine?, where did i say India's great?

I've heard that argument before and that type of argument does nothing except keep stroking your pride and ego at the cost of preservationist thinking. i find it ironic that YOU claim to be a patriotic Indian and accuse me of being a self-serving rich NRI, yet **I** am the person worrying over India's future and its problems while you are nonchalantly dismissing all worries and proclaiming India is 'just fine and will be fine'....i wonder, if one is to go by ACTION and not just WORDS, who would come across as more patriotic...you or me....and the irony of it all is that i don't give one damn about silly concepts like patriotism.

While worrying and fretting and despair may seem like "ACTIONS" to you, to any forward looking Indian, it's hardly the way forward. And that's clearly what i meant to say, i dont care if you are an NRI or american whatever ....calling a country cesspool and feeling hurt when somebody gives it back to you is not being realistic .

Whether you like to deal with the fact that India is a cesspool, just marginally better than sub-saharan Africa in human development, societerial responsibility and ethics and lagging behind just about EVERYONE on this planet, is not my problem.

Strange then that you've got a president worrying about this sub-saharan stuff called India. What nonsense, do you seriously think Bush'd be worried about sub saharan stuffs even if they were to be a billion in number, he'll let them die like orphans while he fills up his coffers .

What i think is that you are an ignorant fool. Read here and find out why and keep up the chest-thumping one-eyed dotishness that has come to signify most Indians today and the lack of intellectual development INSIDE of India about Indian issues. :haha:

What absolutely irrelevant stuff you directed me to, the article merely talks about how Indians are more prone to obesity causing "genes" and diabetics, Well the Americans are obese even without these heriditory genes , that just further confirms what we've been saying. And i dont need smileys to laugh at you

[The Outsider]

Bush has got his stats wrong Between ’03-’07, Grain Intake Rose In US, But Was Static In India The average American eats 5 times more than average Indian. In 2003, US per capita grain consumption was 946 kg a year which had increased to 1,046 kg last year. By way of comparison, India’s per capita grain consumption had remained static over the same period Full article - http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Daily/skins/TOI/navigator.asp?Daily=TOIM&login=default

Good one, PK. Drills a mighty whole in Bush's "theory".

[Guest HariSampath]

I have not really read all the posts regarding India consuming more foodgrains or less or who is fatter. But even if *India* is consuming more...I would like to point out one fact. 860 million people spend on an average Rs 20 per day...that includes cost of everything, food, home etc...this is one sad country where more than 80% of the population live on 50 cents a day...cold hard facts.

[Guest HariSampath]

The more relevant question that needs to be addressed is not how much is totally consumed but what part of total production is being consumed in the USA and other Western countries. It is a well known fact that UK dumps into waste almost 10 billion pound sterling worth food each year. In US , almost 1/3 of the food produced and available in retail is a waste. I dug up some 2004 stats that show out of 350 billion pounds of food produced and sold in USA, almost 100 billion pounds are thrown away....thats a pathetic state of affairs, just imagine how much it could benefit those in Ethiopia , other African and Asian countries...if only someone gets the food distribution system right.. US: Food Waste and Hunger Exist Side by Side by Haider Rizvi NEW YORK - ''Do you want these? They are so fresh,'' says Catherine, holding up a bunch of grapes she just pulled out from one of the trash bags piled up on the sidewalk. ''Take this, man. It's good too,'' adds her friend Morlan, holding out a loaf of bread. Though happy to have found something for dinner, both Catherine, 21, and Morlan, 19, wonder why some edible food is thrown out as garbage in New York City ''They only sell this food to the rich,'' says Catherine pointing to the upscale grocery store that put out the bags. Inside the store, the manager is visibly upset with Catherine and other young people who are stuffing their backpacks with fruits and vegetables from the trash bags. ''They are picking up garbage,'' says the manager. ''I don't know why they are doing this.'' ''I have zero cash right now, and no place to stay,'' Morlan told Tierramérica. ''What do you expect me to do?'' Such scenes are becoming increasingly commonplace on the streets of U.S. cities, despite the enormous quantity of food that the world's most affluent nation produces every year. Official surveys indicate that every year more than 350 billion pounds (160 billion kg) of edible food is available for human consumption in the United States. Of that total, nearly 100 billion pounds (45 billion kg) -- including fresh vegetables, fruits, milk, and grain products -- are lost to waste by retailers, restaurants, and consumers. By contrast, the amount of food required to meet the needs of the hungry is only four billion pounds, according to Food Not Bombs, an advocacy group, which estimates that every year more than 30 million people in the United States are going hungry on regular basis. ''The American government has billions of dollars in surplus money, which could go towards poverty elimination nationally or globally,'' Samana Siddiqui of the Sound Vision Foundation, a Chicago-based non-profit group, told Tierramérica. But Joyce Glenn, a novelist who lives next to the grocery store, where Catherine looks for food in the trash bags, has a different take on the wastage of food and over-consumption in her country. ''Americans consume as much as they are able in order to lull themselves into a sense of complacency as long as the need for food, as well as even luxurious food, gives them a sense of well being,'' says Glenn, who is in her 60s, and often invites homeless people she sees in the street into her home. Noting that food production in the United States and the world has increased more than the population, food rights groups say they believe more people are likely to suffer from lack of food as long the agri-business firms continue to be driven primarily by profits. ''We don't have a democratic say in how food is produced or distributed,'' according to Food Not Bombs. ''In our society, it is acceptable to profit from other people's suffering and misery.'' The group's position is based on the assertion that people from the more affluent and middle class sectors of U.S. society are drawn to over-consumption as a lifestyle -- validated by a study carried out by the Washington-based World Watch Institute earlier this year. ''U.S. consumption styles have not only spread to other industrialised nations,'' says the State of the World 2004, ''they have succeeded in penetrating much of the developing world as well.'' The study shows how millions of middle class people across the globe have adopted the diets, transportation systems and lifestyles pioneered in the United States. To some degree, ''rising consumption has helped meet basic needs,'' said World Watch president Christopher Flavin. ''But this unprecedented consumer appetite is undermining the natural systems we all depend on, and making it even harder for the world poor to meet their basic needs.'' According to the report, the U.S. and Western European consumers, who constitute only about 12 percent of the world population, are responsible for about 60 percent of consumption of private consumer goods. By contrast, the people of Latin American and the Caribbean, whose share in the world population is just nine percent, spend only seven percent on non-essential household goods. ''Agriculture, free trade, and intellectual property policies have become a leading edge of the U.S. corporate push for global economic dominance,'' says Kathy McAfee, executive director of the San Francisco-based Institute for Food and Development Policy (better known as Food First). ''But at the same time,'' she adds, ''farmers and ecologists around the world have been achieving impressive successes in increasing food production by sustainable methods. We are seeing the mobilisation of hundreds of thousands of small farmers from Mexico to Brazil, from India to Thailand to the Philippines in defence of their rights.''

[Guest HariSampath]

And here are more stats that will hopefully settle the issue. 1. India is 31st in the list of countries with malnutrition, with 22 % of the population being undernourished almost 1/4 th the country of 1 billion plus. US is nowhere in the malnutrition list. 2. In United states, about 25 % of the country's population is considered "Obese". This is according to a BMI measure ( body mass index); and around 20% of the country is "overweight"..and the rest "healthy weight" Only 4 out of 50 states in USA have an Obesity prevalence of less than 20%, which is shocking. Add to this the food wastage issue in earlier posts, and we begin to see the true picture. Around 320 million people in India are classified as "poorest of the poor", consuming less than 1600 calories of food per day...this is 1/3rd of the country and nearly the population of USA

[Guest dada_rocks]

BUSh bashing at it best.. man he recognised India's middle class purchasing power was not dismissive of this development in anyway... HE is one of the very few usa president who is in awe of India in general and Indian democracy in particualr in positive way