should Afganistan and Pakistan be Put under UN Rule

[theguyinallblue]

i think for better tomorrow... world powers should do something in this regard... i say...US, Russia, England, France, etc..should occupy both the countries..and rule over the land and people... taking care of foreign, finance and military wings...under UN rule... also...Dalai Lama...should be requested to convert all the people of these two countries into Budhism...

[Ram]

Go get some sleep Sandeep. :D

[sandtest]

As I have said several times, if World is serious about peace then the only solution is to break Pakistan and parts of Afghanistan into small independently ruled states. Pakistani society is feudal in nature. Apart from radical Islamism there are regular incidents of blood and gory among different groups. To start with, USA and NATO msut think about following model - (1) PakJabistan -- pakistani part of Punjab (2) Baloochistan (3) Sindhistaan or Jeevay Sindh (4) Pakhtoonistan -- merging the tribal Pashtun areas on both sides of Pakistan and Afghanistan. There is no other way than this...In past Western countries, empty talks of Pakistan being equal-equal to India was just a ploy to contain and bleed India for her alliance with Russia during cold war.

[Ram]

Are you guys out of your mind?

[Lurker]

Are you guys out of your mind?

Do you doubt it for a second? It basically shows how in the end people, regardless of religion/colour/ethnicity, are essentially the same - a little success goes right to the head. In the eyes of most Developed Countries of the world India remains a 3rd world country though arguably a 3rd world country on the move. However many Indians behave as if not only are we in the Advanced Country bracket but are leading the entire pack!

[cowboysfan]

lol-how old are some of the guys on this board?.I hope this is a joke and not meant to be seriously.

[THX_1138]

Do you doubt it for a second? It basically shows how in the end people, regardless of religion/colour/ethnicity, are essentially the same - a little success goes right to the head. In the eyes of most Developed Countries of the world India remains a 3rd world country though arguably a 3rd world country on the move. However many Indians behave as if not only are we in the Advanced Country bracket but are leading the entire pack!

true... for instance, this very thread and the premise on which it is built, could be applied to india as well! the northeastern states have nothing in common with the mainland, and south india and north india are so remote culturally and linguistically, heck even economically... its peculiar! maybe we should fragment india into several parts as well. on a serious note, i think a redistribution of states into smaller provinces, with demarkations made by vertical and horizontal boundaries rather than on the basis of linguistic and cultural identities would force amalgamation of the people, improving the solidarity of people. furthermore, some parts of india should be made autonomous, such as Jammu and Kashmir, and the North east.

[Lurker]

true... for instance' date=' this very thread and the premise on which it is built, could be applied to india as well! the northeastern states have [b']nothing in common with the mainland, and south india and north india are so remote culturally and linguistically, heck even economically... its peculiar! maybe we should fragment india into several parts as well.

Indeed. In fact in keeping up with the basic premise of this thread, Pakistan should be brought under UN rule(thanks to lawlessness), I am reminded of an India Today survey of late 90s/early 2000s. One of the point of the survey was - Should Bihar be kicked away from India(I paraphrase) - and it had received a very good amount of votes as well!! I dare say it was majority(80% or so in favour) but I can only mention it as a recollection, dont have any links to that. I suppose if Indians talk about other countries breaking up they should also check facts back home. xxx

[THX_1138]

Indeed. In fact in keeping up with the basic premise of this thread, Pakistan should be brought under UN rule(thanks to lawlessness), I am reminded of an India Today survey of late 90s/early 2000s. One of the point of the survey was - Should Bihar be kicked away from India(I paraphrase) - and it had received a very good amount of votes as well!! I dare say it was majority(80% or so in favour) but I can only mention it as a recollection, dont have any links to that. I suppose if Indians talk about other countries breaking up they should also check facts back home. xxx

and the audacity of peoplem who suggest that bihar should be kicked out of the union who fail to understand that the very infrastructure upon which the country stands: the coal and steel is almost all coming from bihar... most indians love to blame the government for all their troubles, what they dont understand is economics. when a region is rich in natural resources, its prevelant educational standards and service sector economy would take a huge hit... this is known as the "dutch effect". it is evident in most oil rich nations and regions of the world where natural resources suchs as cola, ironore, bauxite etc are available in massive abundance. even states such as virginia where coal is mined are not immune th this phenomenon, yet we sh*t on bihar for suffering the same effect!

[sandtest]

sometimes you guys need to get down from the high horse of morality. The case of people calling Bihar being kicked away was more an expression of frustration towards those corrupt Laloos siphoning off all the resources and in return state was getting nothing but politics of Caste and Muslim appeasement and yet Biharis were "clever" enough to elect him and even Rabri again and again. When a city like Pune surrounded by mountains can get millions in investement for manufacturing and in modern time IT, then why UP and Bihar failed inspite Bihar being rich in natural resources? I am still amazed that even today many Yadavs of Bihar and UP never fail to praise Mulayam and Laloo simply because they are from the same caste, and yet we have audacity to moan about findings of some survey which is merely an expression of frustration than an actual call for speration. It is same like our frustration towards West Bengal for electing ChinCommies again and again so much so that we often say all Bengalis are commies, which we know is not true, since Bengal has many bright intellectuals who are not closet commies.

[THX_1138]

sometimes you guys need to get down from the high horse of morality. The case of people calling Bihar being kicked away was more an expression of frustration towards those corrupt Laloos siphoning off all the resources and in return state was getting nothing but politics of Caste and Muslim appeasement and yet Biharis were "clever" enough to elect him and even Rabri again and again. When a city like Pune surrounded by mountains can get millions in investement for manufacturing and in modern time IT, then why UP and Bihar failed inspite Bihar being rich in natural resources? I am still amazed that even today many Yadavs of Bihar and UP never fail to praise Mulayam and Laloo simply because they are from the same caste, and yet we have audacity to moan about findings of some survey which is merely an expression of frustration than an actual call for speration. It is same like our frustration towards West Bengal for electing ChinCommies again and again so much so that we often say all Bengalis are commies, which we know is not true, since Bengal has many bright intellectuals who are not closet commies.

i should have known that someone of your limited intelligence and unidimensional thought would not understand what the dutch effect is. when a region is rich in natural resources, in order to exploit those resources, you need access to a large, cheap labor force that will be willing to work in stiffling conditions, minimal pay on jobs that require little to no specialization. there is no use for a IT techie in the extraction of coal or steel production... there is no money for those working in those businesses, and there is no incentive for education if jobs are abundantly available for the illiterate. its a vicious cycle that results in reduced education, lower pay scales and increased labor exploitation. ideal grounds for a aggressive demand for public reform (i.e. socialism), and thus to this atmosphere of anti-intellectualism, incumbancy of a candidate can often be a defining factor in his/here re-election. thus the stranglehold over bihar by the likes of laloo prasad yadav. if you wish to fix this, seek responsible exploitation of natural resources and volunteer to pay more for the electricity that is generated from cheap coal, and offer to pay more for the steel products you purchase. since that is about as likely as rain in the sahara, and i dont blame you, its is a rather counterintutive thing, understand that the plight of the lower social strata will worsen.

[sandtest]

As far as existence of Pakistan as a nation is concerned, if USA or NATO refuse to do the good work of breaking Pakistan, mark these words, Pakistan will break away on it's own in future....I will bump this thread then. Today, you can throw personal attacks by calling "they are out of their minds calling for disintegration of our great nation of Pakistan", but fact is at least one area -- i.e. Tribal area (Pashtoon dominated area) of Pakistan has never been under their control even during british era. Pashtoons still have their own Court or Islamic Jirga where punishment is given by local warlords, Pakistani police is not even an observer. Same for Baloochis oppresed by Punjabi dominated Pakistan army. USA mollycoddling of Pakistan was basically an attempt to contain India and punish her for alliance with Soviets in cold war. In 21st century things have changed. Cold war is history, Soviet is broken, India is no more in US enemy camp. The only reason USA trying to hold Pakistan is fear of their loose nukes falling in the hands of Jeehadis and Iran or Egypt/Saudi getting access to bum designs through Islamist scientists of Pakistan. If India is clever enough, now is the time, we can negotiate with USA by leveraging them Iran attack through providing them access to Western Naval Command of India and blocking Indian ocean escape point for Iran and in return de-nuclearize Pakistan simultaneaously by co-ordinated strike with Israel. We need a Chanakya or modern day Sardar Patel (perhaps NAMO in Delhi) to think ahead of time. A Nationalist government is needed in Delhi to get rid of India's pacifist nature first and adopt ruthless foreign policy approach. Learn from USA. India has to grab her position where she rightfully belonged since many centuries, on her own, otherwise India will be stuck in the Islamic spiderweb of this joke of country called Islamic republic of Pakistan. De-Nuclearzing Islamic Pakistan and breaking it into small states is only way for India's stability. Pakistan represents that totalitarian ideology of Islam which if not broken, will spread and eat away the surrounding like a locust.

[sandtest]

should have known that someone of your limited intelligence and unidimensional thought would not understand what the dutch effect is. when a region is rich in natural resources, in order to exploit those resources, you need access to a large, cheap labor force that will be willing to work in stiffling conditions, minimal pay on jobs that require little to no specialization. there is no use for a IT techie in the extraction of coal or steel production... there is no money for those working in those businesses, and there is no incentive for education if jobs are abundantly available for the illiterate. its a vicious cycle that results in reduced education, lower pay scales and increased labor exploitation. ideal grounds for a aggressive demand for public reform (i.e. socialism), and thus to this atmosphere of anti-intellectualism, incumbancy of a candidate can often be a defining factor in his/here re-election. thus the stranglehold over bihar by the likes of laloo prasad yadav.

O, infinitely intelligent internet philosopher, you missed my point. I had a similiar post in some other thread, when I talked about industrial infrastructure investment and development, I was referring to both manufacturing as well as IT. The example of Pune is given because -- Pune had MANUFACTURING facilities of transport vehicles, trucks cars, Pumps, Motors, large Pressure Vessels, Boilers, metal foundries which require large amount of IRON ORE/STEEL as raw material and yet this is supplied from Bihar/Jharkhand. And this was before IT-vity started booming. Now talking of labor, those folks working in manufacturing factories of Pune are again from UP and Bihar (more than 50%)...That is the biggest irony -- both raw material and manpower is coming from UP and Bihar and yet UP and Bihari leadres failed to attract even a single big ticket industrial investement in Bihar. Heck, even a carpet industry which was once flourishing in Bhadohi, UP is a history now thanks to Child labor BS. Your points regarding failure of UP-Bihar in industrialization may be correct, but the end result is still same that UP-Bihar lack behind even from Kerala, and political leaders of our state have a lot to answer. PS: Go slow on opening your post with personal remarks, it's CCisque. If you think some thoughts are lunatic enough and doesnot confirm to your politically correct and senile thinking you can ignore. Cheers!

[Lurker]

The case of people calling Bihar being kicked away was more an expression of frustration towards those corrupt Laloos siphoning off all the resources and in return state was getting nothing but politics of Caste and Muslim appeasement and yet Biharis were "clever" enough to elect him and even Rabri again and again.

What kind of weird logic is that?? A country does not, and should not, survive on a span of a few years memory. The same state that you mention was also leading the country in many ways. For example - Show me one other state that stood up against Indira gandhi and defended the Democracy during Emergency? Please show me what the **** did Kerela or Tamil Nadu did when the most prized possession of India, its democracy was being challenged. When Indians today fall head over heels showing how India is "great" because it remained a Democracy while its neighbours - Pakistan, China, BD etc etc- are all despotic countries they should thank Bihar for having the moral gumption in its darkest hour. Maybe its high time Biharis started making the correct noises about the contribution of many of these "Indian" states, right from 1857 revolution onwards. It is funny how a few years of prosperity makes them an "authority" to suggest what Bihar means to India!!! xxx

[Ram]

So much for the 'hardened politcal analysts', as DR chooses to describe himself and his cohots and their political logic... UN rule in Pakistan! :haha:....

[Brainfade]

i think for better tomorrow... world powers should do something in this regard... i say...US, Russia, England, France, etc..should occupy both the countries..and rule over the land and people... taking care of foreign, finance and military wings...under UN rule... also...Dalai Lama...should be requested to convert all the people of these two countries into Budhism...

The very premise of this thread is based on the flawed assumption that the UN can provide a good government. Everything else is moot.

[Brainfade]

and the audacity of peoplem who suggest that bihar should be kicked out of the union who fail to understand that the very infrastructure upon which the country stands: the coal and steel is almost all coming from bihar... most indians love to blame the government for all their troubles, what they dont understand is economics. when a region is rich in natural resources, its prevelant educational standards and service sector economy would take a huge hit... this is known as the "dutch effect". it is evident in most oil rich nations and regions of the world where natural resources suchs as cola, ironore, bauxite etc are available in massive abundance. even states such as virginia where coal is mined are not immune th this phenomenon, yet we sh*t on bihar for suffering the same effect!

You mean West Virginia? The largest coal-producing states in the US (approx. production in million tons in 2000 AD): Wyoming - 350 West Virginia - 150 Kentucky - 150 Pennsylvania - 100 Texas - 50 Montana - 40 Illinois - 35 Virginia - 30 Not disputing your theory, only setting the facts straight. An interesting article on Dutch disease from Time magazine:

....It's coming to the end of its shelf life. The historic commodities boom that we are living through now shows that the Dutch disease is just as often absent from resource-rich countries as it is present. The key is governance. Yes, commodities can indeed produce rent-seeking, and can bump up the external value of a currency, making it hard to produce other goods for export. But well-governed nations find ways to insulate their economies from the downside of commodities. Some of it, as Norway has shown, is just straightforward economic fundamentals: sound monetary policy, open trading and investment regimes. Enforced laws against corruption are basic.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1720049_1722077_1722426,00.html

[Brainfade]

Naah saar you are looking at it the wrong way .... according to TGIB nothing can be as bad as our beloved neighbours way of governance ... thats what it is ... :winky:

:-). The UN may surprise you.

[THX_1138]

O, infinitely intelligent internet philosopher, you missed my point. I had a similiar post in some other thread, when I talked about industrial infrastructure investment and development, I was referring to both manufacturing as well as IT. The example of Pune is given because -- Pune had MANUFACTURING facilities of transport vehicles, trucks cars, Pumps, Motors, large Pressure Vessels, Boilers, metal foundries which require large amount of IRON ORE/STEEL as raw material and yet this is supplied from Bihar/Jharkhand. And this was before IT-vity started booming. Now talking of labor, those folks working in manufacturing factories of Pune are again from UP and Bihar (more than 50%)...That is the biggest irony -- both raw material and manpower is coming from UP and Bihar and yet UP and Bihari leadres failed to attract even a single big ticket industrial investement in Bihar. Heck, even a carpet industry which was once flourishing in Bhadohi, UP is a history now thanks to Child labor BS.Your points regarding failure of UP-Bihar in industrialization may be correct, but the end result is still same that UP-Bihar lack behind even from Kerala, and political leaders of our state have a lot to answer. PS: Go slow on opening your post with personal remarks, it's CCisque. If you think some thoughts are lunatic enough and doesnot confirm to your politically correct and senile thinking you can ignore. Cheers!

care to shed more light on that? as for attracting private sector investment, most of the mines are either privately subcontracted for leases that run about 100 odd years and there is little incentive for them to seel their mines to another organization... furthermore, mechanized factories require technically savvy labor that is almost always synonymous with education and literacy. yet, if these individuals who work the coal mines are adequately educated, would they wish to work in the stiffling conditions of the mines?

[THX_1138]

You mean West Virginia? The largest coal-producing states in the US (approx. production in million tons in 2000 AD): Wyoming - 350 West Virginia - 150 Kentucky - 150 Pennsylvania - 100 Texas - 50 Montana - 40 Illinois - 35 Virginia - 30 Not disputing your theory, only setting the facts straight. An interesting article on Dutch disease from Time magazine: http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1720049_1722077_1722426,00.html

actually i did mean west virginia, but i notice that i have repeatedly mentioned virginia in my previous posts when in fact, west virginia is what i wanted to state. thanks for the correction.