Sehwag Stats - A case of Contrast

[Guest BossBhai]

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[thongale]

So no one from the Current era have actually Faced the West Indian Pace Quartret hence no Batsman from the present Generation should be Included among ATG?

That idea is your brain child. Not mine. I never said Boycott is a ATG and Sehwag is not. For me ATG is today used too liberally. I would not consider both to be ATGs. Give me Sachin, Dravid, Sobers or Viv, I'd take them as ATGs. But not Boycott nor Sehwag at this point of his career.

Sehwag has failed against Moving Ball? In one series in 2006. Ponting has failed against Turing ball in every series. Hence Ponting is not a Great too?

Ponting doesn not have a weakness against spin. So was Cullinan. But former failed against Harbhajan and latter against Warne. But Sehwag has a deficiency in his technique where all good seamers expoloit. Not one or two bowlers with special deliveries. Against Sehwag, for a opening bowler, you have a method to ball. Short at the body and full swinging in. A bowler good enough to do both usually gets him.

And the Ball doesnt move in England and Australia and It didnt move in 2001 in SA? I dont think a Change in technique is Needed, What technique sir DB had? I dont think he changed his technique to play bowlers of his era. Its not about Occupying crease its about Scoring Runs.

Did I suggest so? an you recall what happened when ball was doing a bit off the pitch against SAF in your home series? I have not seen Bradman's technique, so cannot comment. And to score you have to occupy the crease. Getting blasted out in 20 deliveries will not do the job for the team. If you are thinking that Sehwag needs to change his technique, yu are mistaken. Fot this era, against current bowlers, it's perfect. But down the line in few years time, if we get to see some 6'5" - four man mean pace battery, operating in high 80s to low 90s, intimidating by bouncing, we might see the deficiencies in his technique. Otherwise he'll be fine.

[thongale]

:headshake: heres the right stat as per your scenario of excluding minnows and considering only common opp http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35263.html?class=1;filter=advanced;filter=advanced;host=1;host=2;host=27;host=4;host=5;host=7;host=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/47270.html?class=1;filter=advanced;host=1;host=2;host=27;host=4;host=5;host=7;host=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting so Smith is ahead of VS by 0.93 in avg but Sehwags SR is in a different Galaxy ...

UAE games are home games for Pakistan. So comes average of 46.5 for GCS. And I've use games according to the host country as well. 56.9 - 52.3 is 0.9? What I get is 4.6. As you mention because of his impact value, I'll rate him slightly ahead of Smith. But Sehwag is NO WAY miles better than Smith.

[thongale]

I do not think Minnows need to be brought into arguemnt while we are Judging great players' date=' If it is allowed i can make many batsman look like SRT , Ricky Ponting and Brian Lara. Here you are proposing minnows because you know this guy has fared badly against minnows and His average will drop . [b']Sehwag is 10 times a better batsman against Top 5-6 Teams than what GS is . Yes you may call GS Better against Minnows. But when it comes to the best team in the world Sehwag is way ahead of GS.

You are clearly showing your intelelctual dishonesty. You think Ntini's wicket more valuable than Tamim Iqbal's? Do you think that playing Shakib Al Hasan is easier than playing Greame Smith? Here what I say is let every body give an EQUAL opportunity to bash them. If they cannot bash minnows that shows a deficiency of their game, hence not an ATG. You have to do well against almost EVERYBODY to be a great. And the bolded part, I am LMAO.:finger:

[Sachin=GOD]

Now you are miles off the argument. Argument was that whether we need a change in technique when you play a super fast bowling battery. The attacks Sehwag played is NO WHERE close to WI quartret of 1980s. We have been not discussing whether Sehwag can play pace of current era or not (obviously he can as you mentioned). The question was whether he can to it against what Boycott faced. Boycott batted on juicy pitches in ENG and lively wickets in WI as well. So he rarely played on roads against WI. Now we have seen that Sehwag has failed against moving ball against good seam bowlers (not jokes that bowled to him in sub continent or in England except Anderson). The obvious examples were Steyn and Pollock. And you may agree that each bowler that I have given in that list (except Thompson) are better than Steyn and Pollock. The challenge is much more stiff for Boycott than for Sehwag in majority of his games. That resulted in a different game plan which was suited to THAT PARTICULAR instance. Looking down on Boycott being slow is hilarious' date= because you needed to be SLOW to score against those bowlers.

Simple answer to all your points is that a batsman can only face those bowlers who bowl in his time-its not Sehwag's fault that we don't have bowlers like Holding, Lillee nowadays. As far as failing against moving balls against seam bowlers is concerned-that is just ridiculous. The guy has scored runs in all condition, against all types of bowlers and more importantly he's made those runs in a manner unlike any other batsman in recent times (except maybe Jayasuriya or Gilchrist) by simply decimating attacks. Have you forgotten the 195 against Aus in Melbourne in 2003 or 84 at Lords in 2002 against England or his first test century against South Africa in South Africa on debut?

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Andy]

Ponting doesn not have a weakness against spin. So was Cullinan. But former failed against Harbhajan and latter against Warne. But Sehwag has a deficiency in his technique where all good seamers expoloit. Not one or two bowlers with special deliveries. Against Sehwag' date=' for a opening bowler, you have a method to ball. Short at the body and full swinging in. A bowler good enough to do both usually gets him. [/quote'] Who says Ponting does not have weakness against spin? He uses hard hands to play spinners and will struggle against Off spinners on Turning tracks. And who said Sehwag has deficiency in technique? A Batman deficient in technique would not be making runs world wide. And if he has technical problems, then all bowlers around the world must be garbages who couldnt exploit his technique. And heard a lot about Short bal, swinging in and have seen them disapearing to the fence every now and then.

Did I suggest so? an you recall what happened when ball was doing a bit off the pitch against SAF in your home series? I have not seen Bradman's technique' date= so cannot comment. And to score you have to occupy the crease. Getting blasted out in 20 deliveries will not do the job for the team. If you are thinking that Sehwag needs to change his technique, yu are mistaken. Fot this era, against current bowlers, it's perfect. But down the line in few years time, if we get to see some 6'5" - four man mean pace battery, operating in high 80s to low 90s, intimidating by bouncing, we might see the deficiencies in his technique. Otherwise he'll be fine.

This is what happened against 4 man pace battery. http://www.espncricinfo.com/indvrsa2010/engine/match/441825.html

[Andy]

You are clearly showing your intelelctual dishonesty. You think Ntini's wicket more valuable than Tamim Iqbal's? Do you think that playing Shakib Al Hasan is easier than playing Greame Smith? Here what I say is let every body give an EQUAL opportunity to bash them. If they cannot bash minnows that shows a deficiency of their game, hence not an ATG. You have to do well against almost EVERYBODY to be a great. And the bolded part, I am LMAO.:finger:

Wrong actually , if performing against Bigger oppositions had no credit then players like Mohammed Yusuf would have been under same bracket as SRT. Its players like Sehwag who takes their game to new level against differnt opponents. Players like Sehwag are poor aginst Teams like Bangladesh but beter than the best against the best in the world.

[akshayxyz]

Comparing Sehwag with any test batsman, having strike rate outside 20-25% of his, is meaningless. Esp when he is nearing average of 55. 20-25% is arbitrary figure, but I feel still is quite liberal. Guys it is more than just numbers, facing weak/strong opponents, facing pace battery, or not so pace batter!, really its beyond that. Does any one realize what it takes to play against the rules/conventional-wisdom of the game that has been established over a century - and yet perform at the established parameters of performance? What it takes to change historical/contemporary mindset? - Nothing short of sheer brilliance, pure genius. Imagine joining a batting academy (pre-sehwag), and imagine someone trying to play like he does(SR and technique), guess what most of the coaches will say? Remember what people used to say about his technique ( they haven't yet stopped). We have yet to establish a decent group of batsmen, against which we can start comparing Sehwag.

[saurabh2602]

I was listening to Boycott harp away ad-nauseum about technique on TMS earlier today and couldnt help do this ..... a contrast between him and Sehwag ... I know I know chalk and cheese and all that but FWIW ...... :-D GB 8114 Runs in nearly 21K balls at a SR of 37% and a Avg of 47 Zero Triples and a HS of 246 4813 runs in just 6292 balls at 76% SR and a avg of 51 2 Triples and one 250+ score. To heck with technique. :winky:

:adore::adore:

[putrevus]

This notion that west indies pace bowlers of 1980s were unplayable or invincible is a fallacy.Those bowlers were far better than guys than any bowler Sehwag has faced is also ridiculous. Batsmen of that Era were taught to leave the ball outside off stump alone and wait for loose balls to score but who says it cannot be done in other ways. People like Boycott will want you believe that he was the most technically correct batsmen ever and he played in the most difficult conditions and faced the greatest bowlers. Viv Richards never had any great technique but he is called greatest batsmen of that generation and is considered ATG for simple fact he choose to take the attack to bowlers and never let anyone settle.He scored freely against his team mates when they played against each other in county cricket. Sehwag is off the same mold he takes attack to the bowlers and is better offside player than Viv Richards who was better onside player. Facing tall west Indies bowlers would not be problem for Sehwag because he is short and he ducks well. Sehwag has scored runs everywhere he has played SA in one series he failed but that was lean patch he was going thru which can happen to any batsmen. For Sehwag conditions or bowlers don't matter he averages less against two of weakest sides NZ and Bangladesh but has scored heavily against Australia/SA/Powerhouse .

[Sachin=GOD]

This notion that west indies pace bowlers of 1980s were unplayable or invincible is a fallacy.Those bowlers were far better than guys than any bowler Sehwag has faced is also ridiculous. Batsmen of that Era were taught to leave the ball outside off stump alone and wait for loose balls to score but who says it cannot be done in other ways. People like Boycott will want you believe that he was the most technically correct batsmen ever and he played in the most difficult conditions and faced the greatest bowlers. Viv Richards never had any great technique but he is called greatest batsmen of that generation and is considered ATG for simple fact he choose to take the attack to bowlers and never let anyone settle.He scored freely against his team mates when they played against each other in county cricket. Sehwag is off the same mold he takes attack to the bowlers and is better offside player than Viv Richards who was better onside player. Facing tall west Indies bowlers would not be problem for Sehwag because he is short and he ducks well. Sehwag has scored runs everywhere he has played SA in one series he failed but that was lean patch he was going thru which can happen to any batsmen. For Sehwag conditions or bowlers don't matter he averages less against two of weakest sides NZ and Bangladesh but has scored heavily against Australia/SA/Powerhouse .

:facepalm:

[dhillon28]

Not yet .... but his career path is heading in the right direction .... **touches pure wood** :winky:

sehwag will never be a sachin. despite sehwag being one of my favourite players- sachin is a class above him....ive even read articles where sehwag has said this himself and we all know viru never hesitates in promoting himself and so if he sed it he must have really meant it. here are some reasons: sachin has a higher average sachin has a better all round overseas record sachin can play shots all round the wicket/ sehwag is an off side dominant player sachin has excellent back foot play (e.g. pull/hook)/ sehwag has non existent backfoot play on leg side sachin has faced tougher bowlers in his career than sehwag (wasim/waqar/ambrose/walsh/donald/) sachin has been a world class player for 18 years/sehwag 9 yrs with all these differences i dont think sehwag will ever compare to sachin despite going down as one of the best to ever play the game

[Sachin=GOD]

sehwag will never be a sachin. despite sehwag being one of my favourite players- sachin is a class above him....ive even read articles where sehwag has said this himself and we all know viru never hesitates in promoting himself and so if he sed it he must have really meant it. here are some reasons: sachin has a higher average sachin has a better all round overseas record sachin can play shots all round the wicket/ sehwag is an off side dominant player sachin has excellent back foot play (e.g. pull/hook)/ sehwag has non existent backfoot play on leg side sachin has faced tougher bowlers in his career than sehwag (wasim/waqar/ambrose/walsh/donald/) sachin has been a world class player for 18 years/sehwag 9 yrs with all these differences i dont think sehwag will ever compare to sachin despite going down as one of the best to ever play the game

please read this whole thread - each and every post. When you have read it, you will realize that nobody has anywhere on this thread tried to compare Sehwag to Goddy :--D

[dhillon28]

Clearly' date=' Sehwag is the best thing that happend to Indian test cricket in last 10 years[/quote'] along with rahul dravid/msd/zaheer khan reasons: until 2006 dravid was probably best batsmen of decade with a better overseas average than a home average and instrumental in india developing into a team that plays well and wins/draws series overseas- before this guy we were always thumped overseas took the wicket beating burden and allowed us to blood more batsmen and hence discover more world beaters we also cant forget eden gardens msd- his big hitting and fearless batting as a captain allowed the indian batsmen to break free of their shackels and really not be afraid of expressing themselves with confident stroke play in tests hence we probs see a lot more collapses by us in tests- but we also see more wins (msd 60% win rate as captain) despite dhoni recently becoming more defensive- i feel he will now have a second coming as a dashing attacking player zaheer- reverse swing instrumental in home series wins agains Aus in 2008/10 test wins in new zealand, england

[dhillon28]

BB, I think you are taking the discussion in the wrong direction. 'suppose we would have to know what exactly Boycott was saying regarding technique to say it as right or wrong. But broadly speaking technique obviously is important. However it is clearly not be all and end all of batting argument. Even in Boycott's time Sunil Gavaskar was the better opening batsman while the purist might argue that Boycott had the best technique(even Glenn Turner is supposed to have great technique). On the other hand you also had Barry Richards who was more flamboyant and people who saw him consider even better than rest of them. Point being Boycott while being technically the best was not even the best of his time, let alone to compare across his era. In fact most cricket fans would not only put Sunny, Barry ahead of him but even the likes of Gordon Greenidge etc. On a sidenote I also feel that technically good batsman are good for saving games, not winning them. Most technically correct batsman just concentrate too damn hard to play a long innings of any note. That is the reason why Hayden, Lara, Sobers, Viv, Laxman have the biggest innings score and not Boycotts and Dravids. xxx

yes ive heard many ppl now say that boycott was technically better than gavaskar- you are not the first. but based on what? gavaskar had a flawless technique and was more attractive....on what basis can you say boycott was technically better than sunny? please educate me!

[dhillon28]

i still don't know why the heck he was dropped from England tour last year. he desereved to go there and smash those omlets or tremlets or andersonz and who else? panesar and co. damn, still can't believe sehwag was dropped for that english tour

no man- dropping sehwag was best thing to ever happen to him- he worked on his game and came back stronger and more consistent than ever

[dhillon28]

please read this whole thread - each and every post. When you have read it' date=' you will realize that nobody has anywhere on this thread tried to compare Sehwag to Goddy :--D[/quote'] eh yeh...thanks for the reading advice but please refer to page 1, post #12 of this forum

[Sachin=GOD]

A brilliant 175 to start the World Cup :congrats: