Why does Bhaji get so much stick?

[King Tendulkar]

^ You were telling us earlier how great randiv was, his foot position bla blah. Not going to conratulate him on his ton? He has been pathetic since lunch. Completeley milked by the great indians

[Mr. Wicket]

jeez deesy, when you're trying to compare his toothlessness with a debutant offie bowling to the world's #1 batsman, you're really setting the bar low.

[asterix]

It's not even a valid discussion anymore. Bhajji's current form for a while has been inadequate. There's simply no reason why guys like Kartik etc shouldn't be looked at as possible replacements for our most toothless spinner.

There is a very VALID (or INVALID) reason, atleast:

Dhoni and Bhajji are not only good friends on the field, but also off it. Even though the spinner hasn’t been in his best form in the past year or so, Dhoni has always backed him. This deal will, no doubt, take their relationship to a different level.

http://www.newsofap.com/news_details.php?new_auto_id=1236&name=23-harbhajan-dhoni-are-now-business-partners-newsofap&start=0

[Mr. Wicket]

in that case I just hope - for MSD's sake - that bhajju's business sense is better than his bowling sense

[King Tendulkar]

jeez deesy' date=' when you're trying to compare his toothlessness with a debutant offie bowling to the world's #1 batsman, you're really setting the bar low.[/quote'] All spinners have been toothless. Pitch is super flat FOR ALL. Its not mendis debut. What about him? THE PITCH IS SO FLAT. WHY CANT SO CALLED EXPERTS SEE THIS! Also Randiv has had luxury of massive score on board to play with, so can have attacking fields. Also has bowled on day 3 pitch , while bhaji had day 1 pitch to bowl on. Now think again Lurkers pet!

[King Tendulkar]

There is a very VALID (or INVALID) reason, atleast: http://www.newsofap.com/news_details.php?new_auto_id=1236&name=23-harbhajan-dhoni-are-now-business-partners-newsofap&start=0

No he is in the team cos he is most tests wickets in world cricket since 2008 of any spinner. But nice conspiracy theory

[asterix]

Dhoni can't even request Bhajji to perform (leave alone thinking to drop him).. His business will suffer..

[King Tendulkar]

Dhoni can't even request Bhajji to perform (leave alone thinking to drop him).. His business will suffer..

Once upon a time in a land far far away...

[King Tendulkar]

Dhoni can't even request Bhajji to perform (leave alone thinking to drop him).. His business will suffer..

So you are saying Dhoni is a crook who is corrupt?

[asterix]

Dhoni is a good person..Puts his faith on friends. The friends are actually exploiting his faith and friendship..

[King Tendulkar]

Dhoni is a good person..Puts his faith on friends. The friends are actually exploiting his faith and friendship..

WTF:hysterical:

[asterix]

WTF:hysterical:

:hysterical:

[Fontaine]

jeez deesy' date=' when you're trying to compare his toothlessness with a debutant offie bowling to the world's #1 batsman, you're really setting the bar low.[/quote'] It really doesn't matter. The proof is there for the selectors and team to see. It's one thing for all the bowlers to suffer on both sides but to see you're most experienced spinner be put to shame by a debutant who's constantly throwing the ball up and getting it to dip and bounce must be a real eye opener. Traditionally the board and selectors are retroactive. They don't take strong action unless there's some kind of catastrophic failure along the lines of a World Cup Debacle or something similar. Hopefully they'll realize that for tests they need better spin options like Powar/Kartik and quietly let Bhajji focus on the world cup in India. In a lot of ways it's not fair to the player himself to keep him bowling when he's clearly struggling. The key point is that Bhajji HAS DONE NOTHING in this series that Ojha hasn't done or Mishra couldn't do.

[SJS50]

I think we need to put things in perspective. Bhajji gets stick, whatever and whenever he does get it, because he is not any Tom Dick or Randive. He is one of the elite group of spinners in the history of the game who, in all probability, is going to play over a hundred Test matches. Besides Warne Kumble and murali, only Vettori has played in a century of test matches and the last named might have a reasonable claim to be considered an all rounder. Underwood(86) is the only other spinner to have played more than Bhajji's 85 tests and he will leave Underwood behind long before this year is over. So he is in very august company indeed. Then he is the third highest Indian wicket taker of all time with only the giants like Kapil Dev and Kumble above him. (Bedi, Chandra, Prasanna, Gupte lie far behind now). Very very special club that. Most of all is his image and how it has been built up over the years. He is treated just a tad below the cricketing Gods. I remember there was a time when it was heatedly debated that he was a better spinner than Kumble. In fact for a time, howsoever brief, Kumble was dropped, even though fit and available, and Harbhajan played in the side. It is this that brings with it the raising of expectations from Harbhajan as it would from anyone put on that high a pedestal. So either we have to try not to build our cricketers to such a level of demi-Gods or refrain from comparing their failures with those of mere mortals like Mendis and Randiv. If Harbhajan is considered by his 'devotees' to be only in the category of the Randivs and the Mendises (as they stand today in the cricketing pantheon), then no one can have a word to say against Bhajji. Of course he is not a bad spinner at all if he is to be compared to the debutant spinners of the cricketing world. Bhajji is being pilloried because of how much is expected of him and those expectations have been built up first of all by his fabulous talent, then by his very impressive performances early in his career and later by a fawning public and a media ever ready to over-hype the more glamourous and/or controversial figures in Indian cricket. Bhajji has done a lot for Indian cricket and has won many games for us. This no one can deny without causing damage to their own credibility but does this mean that Bhajji is not to be ever criticised? This is what the fans need to ask themselves. And the answer, if they can get objective about the issue somehow, has to be yes. Mind you the same holds true for even greater stars than Bhajji ever will be. Sachin, Murali, Gavaskar, Ponting are all far greater cricketing giants but surely none of them ever can be above any criticism whatsoever. Of course they can, have been and will be criticised. All that needs to be ensured, if possible, is that the criticism is genuine, well meant and well argued and not just criticism for the sake of it. Needless to say the same applies to deification of sportsmen and the defense of sporting icons. Its objectivity that should not be lost sight of. Criticism or defense of a sporting icon cant be bad by themselves and surely not worth all the raving and ranting. This is not about us guys. Don't make it or take it personal. Cheers :-)

[Tendulkar_Bhai]

Some good points above and remembering that in recent times his form in ODIs/T20 has been alot better than tests, maybe as batsmen are playing him better, flat pitches, form etc could all contribute. However hes still young, fit and hasnt suddenly become ineffective overnight and is the BEST spinner we currently have, people forget all those spinners we have tried over the years from sharandip singh (sp) to ramesh power and no one has taken their chances, who is Bhajji really stopping from coming into the teamm.....more 2/3 game journey men? In world cricket everyone can bowl off spin, its alot easier to play/bowl than leg spin and this again gives the batsmen the upper hand

[SJS50]

It really doesn't matter. The proof is there for the selectors and team to see. It's one thing for all the bowlers to suffer on both sides but to see you're most experienced spinner be put to shame by a debutant who's constantly throwing the ball up and getting it to dip and bounce must be a real eye opener. Traditionally the board and selectors are retroactive. They don't take strong action unless there's some kind of catastrophic failure along the lines of a World Cup Debacle or something similar. Hopefully they'll realize that for tests they need better spin options like Powar/Kartik and quietly let Bhajji focus on the world cup in India. In a lot of ways it's not fair to the player himself to keep him bowling when he's clearly struggling. The key point is that Bhajji HAS DONE NOTHING in this series that Ojha hasn't done or Mishra couldn't do.

The problem the Indian selectors are going to face is not that Bhajji is looking less threatening with each series but that there do not seem to be any great replacements around. Unfortunate it is also true that a newcomer is never going to be given as much rope to make good as they would give to a veteran going through a bad patch. Murali Karthik is a case in point. One is not making a case for him to be the one to replace Bhajji at this stage but just highlighting a point. Someone like Murali would never be given an extended run in Tests inspite of it being clear that he had all the basics in place. If we do come across another youngster like Murali now, we need to persevere with him for we do not have the luxury of a Kumble and a Harbhajan to quickly revert to after a Test or two of less than earth shattering start to a young career. Plus, the captains need to understand that a young spinner is not a veteran of 50 Tests or more and needs to be nurtured. Ganguly was too much enamoured by Bhajji and had a real contempt all along for left arm spinners (they came too easy to him when at the crease) to give these trundlers a prolonged run. Dhoni must avoid this trap. India needs to try out young people in new roles quickly now - and this is not true only of our spinners. Yuvraj is thirty and not getting younger. The opportunity that came Raina's way (even if we want to decry hthe wicket as a dead one) has shown he has the temperament that is so important and yet so rare. Similar is the case with Raina. When Sehwag scored that near triple century in a day, I wrote in an article and I quote . . .

Yet, the most compelling part of India's two hundred run opening partnership, for me at least, was the batting of young Murali Vijay. Sadly an ugly sweep brought an end an innings of rare beauty. One hopes we do not have to wait for another wedding in the Gambhir (or Sehwag) household before we see this talented youngster again. His time is now.

The youngster has now scores of 33, 41, 87, 30, 4, 32, 7 and 58 in Tests and has yet to play a Test match on his own merit - last time it was a wedding, now it is an injury. Maybe putting him in Yuvraj's spot would have been a good idea. Yuvraj, inspite of his 'talent', has used up his chances and is at least not a deserving "youngster" anymore. We have a responsibility to bring in young blood which will be needed not too long from now. Cheteshwar Pujara and his ilk need to start getting a smell of the dressing room if not the feel of the turf under their feet. Dhoni and the selectors could actually help reduce the pain of parting that is not far for the Indian team/fans and the likes of Sachin, Dravid, Laxman, Zaheer and maybe Sehwag too. Great players tend to have long careers but they do not always come all together. When they do, as with our batsmen, they tend to do good for stability and strength over a prolonged period but it has its costs. There are quite a few examples in the history of dominant world sides (even if dominant in one discipline) that show the decline due to a generation lost because of a great phalanx of greats whose careers coincide in a team. We need to prepare as best as we can.

[Lord]

The problem the Indian selectors are going to face is not that Bhajji is looking less threatening with each series but that there do not seem to be any great replacements around. Its unfortunate but true that a newcomer is never going to be given as much rope to make good as they would give to a veteran going through a bad patch. Murali Karthik is a case in point. One is not making a case for him to be the one to replace Bhajji at this stage but just highlighting a point. Someone like Murali would never be given an extended run in Tests inspite of it being clear that he had all the basics in place. If we do come across another youngster like Murali now, we need to persevere with him for we do not have the luxury of a Kumble and a Harbhajan to quickly revert to after a Test or two of less than earth shattering start to a young career. Plus, the captains need to understand that a young spinner is not a veteran of 50 Tests or more and needs to be nurtured. Ganguly was too much enamoured by Bhajji and had a real contempt all along for left arm spinners (they came too easy to him when at the crease) to give these trundlers a prolonged run. Dhoni must avoid this trap. India needs to try out young people in new roles quickly now - and this is not true only of our spinners. Yuvraj is thirty and not getting younger. The opportunity that came Raina's way (even if we want to decry hthe wicket as a dead one) has shown he has the temperament that is so important and yet so rare. Similar is the case with Raina. When Sehwag scored that near triple century in a day, I wrote in an article and I quote . . .

Yet, the most compelling part of India's two hundred run opening partnership, for me at least, was the batting of young Murali Vijay. Sadly an ugly sweep brought an end an innings of rare beauty. One hopes we do not have to wait for another wedding in the Gambhir (or Sehwag) household before we see this talented youngster again. His time is now.

The youngster has now scores of 33, 41, 87, 30, 4, 32, 7 and 58 in Tests and has yet to play a Test match on his own merit - last time it was a wedding, now it is an injury. Maybe putting him in Yuvraj's spot would have been a good idea. Yuvraj, inspite of his 'talent', has used up his chances and is at least not a deserving "youngster" anymore. We have a responsibility to bring in young blood which will be needed not too long from now. Cheteshwar Pujara and his ilk need to start getting a smell of the dressing room if not the feel of the turf under their feet. Dhoni and the selectors could actually help reduce the pain of parting that is not far for the Indian team/fans and the likes of Sachin, Dravid, Laxman, Zaheer and maybe Sehwag too. Great players tend to have long careers but they do not always come all together. When they do, as with our batsmen, they tend to do good for stability and strength over a prolonged period but it has its costs. There are quite a few examples in the history of dominant world sides (even if dominant in one discipline) that show the decline due to a generation lost because of a great phalanx of greats whose careers coincide in a team. We need to prepare as best as we can.

Vijay is an opener,hes not gonna replace Yuvraj.Yuvraj's done fairly well since hes got a consistent run after Ganguly quit.if Vijay got a 50 here,Yuvraj got one in Galle in much tougher conditions.sadly no one could convert.i'm hoping Raina does that n takes the place for some time as Yuvraj has toovmany injury problems n it'll be beneficial for him if he just concentrates on his ODI career alone

[SJS50]

Why cant an opener bat in the middle order? The reverse is more difficult (due the the specialisation at the top) and even that has been done with success by quite a few.

[Lord]

Why cant an opener bat in the middle order? The reverse is more difficult (due the the specialisation at the top) and even that has been done with success by quite a few.

i'm not saying it cant be done.just that we have too many MO options to resort to trying Vijay in MO. btw,Vijay seems to have problems with spinners .Mendis was troubling him today.earlier also i've seen him look uncomfortable against spin.

[SJS50]

i'm not saying it cant be done.just that we have too many MO options to resort to trying Vijay in MO. btw,Vijay seems to have problems with spinners .Mendis was troubling him today.earlier also i've seen him look uncomfortable against spin.

Mendis will trouble anyone who is playing him for the first time. I wont even name the batsmen who have struggled before him at first few goes . . . there are some real sacred cows there . . . . :-)